| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah 20:24 - Sep 10 with 16981 views | ElderGrizzly |
Was speaking at a University event and appears to have been shot (from distance) in the neck.
And actually shot, not the Donald Trump kind.
Horrific whatever your political views and has no place in politics
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| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 12:32 - Sep 11 with 928 views | Libero |
| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 12:30 - Sep 11 by J2BLUE |
Oh well feck them then, let's all camp outside their house and yell at his kids that daddy deserved to get shot. |
No one is advocating for that, weird deflection. |  | | |
| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 12:32 - Sep 11 with 923 views | Libero |
| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 12:31 - Sep 11 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I didn't say it was unique in history. Now back to what I actually said - how is shooting a political commentator going to bring down a facist regime (rather than, as I've suggested, emboldening it)? |
It isn't. No one is suggesting it will... [Post edited 11 Sep 12:32]
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| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 12:32 - Sep 11 with 915 views | bartyg |
| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 11:58 - Sep 11 by textbackup |
Inhumane is to carry out atrocious attacks or crimes (IMO) it’s not inhumane to not care. I could lie and say I do, but it won’t change anything.
I’ve many things I care about, whats happening there isn’t on my list. It doesn’t offend me, or worry me, if people don’t care about the hundreds of dogs that get mistreated daily, or that we’ve not seen a single mention of the poor Ukrainian girl murdered in the US (if the shoe was on the other foot… wow, I wonder the outcome) so I don’t see why anyone cares that I don’t care.
Since the attack on the music festival by those barbaric cnts my only thoughts have been for those beautiful souls who were freely enjoying their lives. Who were then brutally attacked, murdered, raped… I do wonder if we’d be seeing these scenes in Gaza if that incident hadn’t occurred (I guess we’ll never know) |
Last paragraph is weird man
A bit of introspection required as to why you speak like so about Israeli lives and yet care so little about Palestinian lives |  | | |
| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 12:33 - Sep 11 with 901 views | NthQldITFC |
| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 10:28 - Sep 11 by GlasgowBlue |
I stayed off this thread until I saw your post. Most of the posts from what I would call 'left leaning posters' have been reasonably measured and thoughtful. Opposing Charlie Kirk's politics whilst at the same time showing sympathy for his young family and saying that violence is not the answer. Sadly one or two are justifying his murder which is absolutely disgusting and a couple of others staring into conspiracy theory crankery.
I also think there is a massive overreaction that this could lead to civil war. America has been through much darker times in recent history. McCarthy hearings of the 1950's,the assassinations of Jack and Bobby Kenedy and Martin Luther King in the 1960's, followed by the Killing of unarmed students in Ohio in the ealy 1970's.
America got through these dark times because they are, in the majority, decent human beings.
I posted a few weeks ago how I had spent the best part of a month driving over 4,000 miles through 20 States.I'll post it again because I simply don't recognise the American people being portrayed online.
Clapping Putin as he arrives in Alaska by GlasgowBlue 16 Aug 7:53Ok, I’m going to add the usual disclaimer that I believe Trump is an appalling human being.
But having spent the best part of a month travelling across over 4500 miles and 20 States in the USA last month, I think the reality is different to the perception of a large majority of Republican voters.
My Mrs is doing a Politics degree as a mature student at Uni, and I’ve always had a healthy interest in politics so wherever we went we were keen to gage the options from the locals of Trump. What we came away with was that the majority of Republican voters fore not brainwashed nasty racists. They were mostly people who didn’t particularly like Trump as a person but felt a renewed sense of national pride in their country. People who were very comfortable in their own skins as Americans in a way that we aren’t as Brits. How we are slightly embarrassed or apologetic about expressing patriotism.
One guy who couldn’t bring himself to vote for either Trump or a Hillary in 2016 went with Trump this time because he felt very let down by the Democrats, that Biden appeared very weak both nationally and on the world stage and that he was angry how Biden’s mental decline had been covered up by the party establishment.
My eldest son lives in St Augustine, Florida and We got an invite to a block party on 4th July. The host was a Hispanic former Marine and undercover cop who had travelled the world so wasn’t somebody with very insular views but his sense of the USA was that its is a country that really doesn’t need anyone else. that they can pretty much make or grow anything they need themselves. There was logic to his argument but no undercurrent of xenophobia or nastiness.
One person at the block party had a MAGA cap, another person was wearing a T Shirt which said “elect a clown expect a circus” with a picture of Trump done up in clown make up. From what we read in the media and social media I might have expected that the MAGA group to take her around the back of the garage and kick the sh1t out if her. The reality couldn’t have been further than the truth. They all enjoyed friendly banter.
And that was pretty much the mood throughout our entire journey. The people were great and I’ve never experienced so much respect and manners from young people.
I’d not been to the States for twenty years so I really wasn’t sure what to expect, we both said after Trump humiliated Zelenskyy in the White House that had we not booked the flights and had family we wanted to visit that we were reluctant to put a penny in the US economy. But I’m glad we did because it gave us a different perspective of the people out there.
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I suspect that the maturity, restraint and responsibility of politicians and media commentators during those earlier flashpoint episodes was much greater than it is now though. People on both sides of the political divide had a level of decency and real patriotism (acting for the greater good of their country) than the Trump faction over there do now - and yes it is fair and direct this comment at that dominant part of the American Right, because they are solely and shamelessly destroying everything that that country once stood for.
Whether that results in Civil War or not is 50/50 for me. |  |
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| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 12:35 - Sep 11 with 867 views | J2BLUE |
| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 12:32 - Sep 11 by Libero |
No one is advocating for that, weird deflection. |
Not really. What point was he trying to make then when responding to my post specifically about his family?
That he, himself, was a c###? I don't see many people arguing. I'm certainly not. |  |
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| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 12:37 - Sep 11 with 849 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 11:47 - Sep 11 by baxterbasics |
Part of the issue here is lumping certain positions into a 'right-wing' bucket (just as those on the other side do similar for 'left-wing') which just reduces the terms left and right to generic insults for people you think are no good. Like it's not possible to be left wing and racist, or right wing and care about the environment. To me it always just defined what role you think government should have in the economy and the detail of peoples lives. You can be an A-hole on either side. |
Well actually much of thag i agree with and IMO the far left and tbe far right have much in common. Just because one side (broadly) hates Islam and the other (broadly) Jewish people doesn't make one better or worse than the other and each represents and extreme that I dont subscribe to on either side.
But to say that certain held views dont sit within a left or right sphere is just not the reality. That argument us well these things are just a construct. Well everything is a construct. People attach themselves to a belief system of ideas and options and socially we divide those along a scale of extreme right to extreme left, some of those rather mirror at either end but they still exist both as ideas and ideologies attached to somewhere along that scale.
As for big vs small govt, that used to be tbe case and whilst that still plays a role things have changed socially and politically so that government interference (or not as you may choose to see it) has become much less of an issue than it once was.
Someone right of centre (to any degree for the sake of a general Point) used to belive in minimal interference. Now they actively encourage interference in choices women can make about their bodies, encourage interference in (at least in the US where're big government vs small has always been a much sharper discussion) in what Universities can teach and even to who encourage promotion of religion in schools where (againusing the US given the events we are discussing) separation of church and state has been a long held principle and beyond........
The ultimate hero for small govt is Ron Swanson and he wouldn't stand for much of the Maga nonsense. |  |
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| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 12:37 - Sep 11 with 846 views | Libero |
| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 12:35 - Sep 11 by J2BLUE |
Not really. What point was he trying to make then when responding to my post specifically about his family?
That he, himself, was a c###? I don't see many people arguing. I'm certainly not. |
I see.
There are people in this thread who are claiming calling him alt right/fascist is a 'smear' or in some way incorrect - despite his clear and repeated alt right/fascist views being shared publicly, personally I read that as people making out that he wasn't the awful c++t that he was. | | | |
| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 12:38 - Sep 11 with 817 views | textbackup |
| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 12:27 - Sep 11 by TRUE_BLUE123 |
Hang on.
So you care about those innocent people who were murdered in Israel (which we all should, it was horrendous) but not the innocent Palestinian people who are being murdered daily (which we all should it was horrendous) That seems odd to me ? Why would one group of innocent people be more worthy of care than the other?
"I do wonder if we’d be seeing these scenes in Gaza if that incident hadn’t occurred (I guess we’ll never know)" We sort of do know, the attacks on Gaza didnt start after the musical festival. |
Yes or no, had the attacks on the music festival not happened, would we be seeing such a forceful attack on Gaza?
I of course realise there was conflict prior to that.
And your first point, yeah when I first read about it (festival attack) and saw what happened I was sickened by it. I’d not say it’s something I think about daily, weekly, monthly. More important things take over.
Do I enjoy seeing thousands of children killed as a result, no. But it’s not something that consumes me, at all. I haven’t been part of a single real life conversation about this topic. The only time I see it is on here if I accidently click ‘’general’ instead of ‘football’ |  |
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| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 12:40 - Sep 11 with 811 views | J2BLUE |
| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 12:37 - Sep 11 by Libero |
I see.
There are people in this thread who are claiming calling him alt right/fascist is a 'smear' or in some way incorrect - despite his clear and repeated alt right/fascist views being shared publicly, personally I read that as people making out that he wasn't the awful c++t that he was. |
That's for them to justify if they wish to do so.
You won't get any argument from me if you want to attack his character. I consider justifying his shooting or saying don't have empathy for his family a bit far though. Others may disagree. | |
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| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 12:41 - Sep 11 with 795 views | TownieRob |
| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 10:55 - Sep 11 by Blueschev |
That is the opposite of what he did. He didn't welcome debate, he bastardised it in order to appear as though he was always smarter than his opponents. He was an affront to honest debate and free speech. |
That’s your opinion, just as I’m entitled to mine. The irony is you’re the one shutting down debate by dismissing him entirely.
Anyways, I must get on. Have a great day. |  | | |
| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 12:42 - Sep 11 with 788 views | Libero |
| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 12:40 - Sep 11 by J2BLUE |
That's for them to justify if they wish to do so.
You won't get any argument from me if you want to attack his character. I consider justifying his shooting or saying don't have empathy for his family a bit far though. Others may disagree. |
These shootings are just a reality of the kind of rhetoric they're pushing, sadly.
It's crazy when you realise how cyclical things are and how this is all just echoing what has happened before and what will inevitably happen again.
Has anyone said they don't have empathy for his family? Genuinely missed that. | | | |
| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 12:46 - Sep 11 with 733 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 12:32 - Sep 11 by Libero |
It isn't. No one is suggesting it will... [Post edited 11 Sep 12:32]
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Erm, you did, a few posts ago.
In replying to me saying this shooting won't help, you said, "violence is essential in removing any kind of fascist organisation from positions of power." |  |
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| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 12:49 - Sep 11 with 693 views | blueasfook |
| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 02:30 - Sep 11 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
This might surprise you considering you post 17 new Guardian linked threads a day about the subject this thread isn’t about Gaza you absolute cretin.
Well it wasn’t until you mentioned it again on here as well as posting offensive tripe about a guy that was just murdered. You’re such a wrong’un but then we all knew that with the way you used to hijack other threads on here in such a disrespectful manger. Like the one about it getting a scary for Jews out there. You couldn’t leave that alone either.
Can only imagine the reason you’re still getting away with this crap is now far left the board leans.
“If only he had a gun”
“Reaps what he sows”
Why not just celebrate a young father’s death like you really want to!
You’re truely pathetic. [Post edited 11 Sep 2:30]
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This gets my vote |  |
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| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 12:51 - Sep 11 with 673 views | textbackup |
| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 12:32 - Sep 11 by bartyg |
Last paragraph is weird man
A bit of introspection required as to why you speak like so about Israeli lives and yet care so little about Palestinian lives |
Possibly a bit of guilt from my side if I’m honest. But that’s not really any of your business.
So I’ll just leave you, or anyone, to draw your own conclusions. It doesn’t bother me either way. | |
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| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 12:52 - Sep 11 with 660 views | J2BLUE |
| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 12:42 - Sep 11 by Libero |
These shootings are just a reality of the kind of rhetoric they're pushing, sadly.
It's crazy when you realise how cyclical things are and how this is all just echoing what has happened before and what will inevitably happen again.
Has anyone said they don't have empathy for his family? Genuinely missed that. |
People keep quoting him on empathy but we can't have empathy for him because he has no feelings now, he's dead.
Can only have empathy for people who will miss him. The likes of Trump and Vance can do one. My empathy is for his wife and kids.
Twitter is the cesspit you would imagine. | |
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| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 12:54 - Sep 11 with 639 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 12:38 - Sep 11 by textbackup |
Yes or no, had the attacks on the music festival not happened, would we be seeing such a forceful attack on Gaza?
I of course realise there was conflict prior to that.
And your first point, yeah when I first read about it (festival attack) and saw what happened I was sickened by it. I’d not say it’s something I think about daily, weekly, monthly. More important things take over.
Do I enjoy seeing thousands of children killed as a result, no. But it’s not something that consumes me, at all. I haven’t been part of a single real life conversation about this topic. The only time I see it is on here if I accidently click ‘’general’ instead of ‘football’ |
Yes or no, had the attacks on the music festival not happened, would we be seeing such a forceful attack on Gaza? - It is impossible to say, but I don't think it is out of the realms of possibility that Netanyahu would have been willing to do something like this even without it. He hasn't shown mercy in the past nor has he ever shown any interest in stopping the conflict at any point. What happened at the music festival was atrocious, it should be condemned the world over but the reaction that has followed cannot still be seen as a retaliation. it is so far past that point.
Do I enjoy seeing thousands of children killed as a result, no. But it’s not something that consumes me, at all- I don't think it has to consume your life if you don't choose it to, it rarely comes up in conversations that I have. But do you really believe the people who bang on about it are 'Freaks'. I don't understand that language or who it helps. I'm not a sensitive person and want free speech as much as anyone but I just find that characterisation of people who are vehemently against the slaughter of innocent children as freaks, odd. |  |
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| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 13:04 - Sep 11 with 565 views | Libero |
| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 12:46 - Sep 11 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Erm, you did, a few posts ago.
In replying to me saying this shooting won't help, you said, "violence is essential in removing any kind of fascist organisation from positions of power." |
It's a statement I stand by, violence *is* essential in removing any kind of fascist organisation from positions of power.
That doesn't mean that I think that Charlie Kirk's assassination will directly bring down the current cabal of quasi-fascism in power. | | | |
| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 13:08 - Sep 11 with 531 views | Libero |
| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 12:52 - Sep 11 by J2BLUE |
People keep quoting him on empathy but we can't have empathy for him because he has no feelings now, he's dead.
Can only have empathy for people who will miss him. The likes of Trump and Vance can do one. My empathy is for his wife and kids.
Twitter is the cesspit you would imagine. |
So, *has* anyone said they don't have empathy for his family?
Sorry, just can't seem to locate it. I think every rational and reasonable human being would feel a degree of empathy for children growing up without their Father, they've lost someone close to them, it's irrelevant that the deceased is a POS, because he's still their Dad.
I'm not sure why anyone would be on Twitter anymore, tbh - I fully believe you that it is as you describe. | | | |
| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 13:10 - Sep 11 with 523 views | Blueschev |
| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 12:41 - Sep 11 by TownieRob |
That’s your opinion, just as I’m entitled to mine. The irony is you’re the one shutting down debate by dismissing him entirely.
Anyways, I must get on. Have a great day. |
In what way am I shutting down debate? |  | | |
| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 13:22 - Sep 11 with 438 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 12:31 - Sep 11 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I didn't say it was unique in history. Now back to what I actually said - how is shooting a political commentator going to bring down a facist regime (rather than, as I've suggested, emboldening it)? |
As you rightly say if anything this assassination strengthens Trumps regime it also takes the heat off other issues that were hogging the headlines.
This was a well planned assassination presumably carried out by a professional. There is no evidence whatsoever that the people behind it are on the left of US politics. Nor is there any evidence that the killing was ordered by anyone on the far right mind you Trump seems to be milking it.
Whoever was responsible it is sad that taking another’s life can be seen as a chance to make propaganda. |  |
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| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 13:23 - Sep 11 with 429 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 12:18 - Sep 11 by Sarge |
Empathy? Pah!
“Empathy is a made-up new-age term that actually does a lot of damage.” - Charlie Kirk |
That's the ultimate irony in all of this. If we were to follow Kirk's teachings we should accept his death as necessary collateral damage to preserve freedoms and not give a damn about his wife and kids. Luckily, he used to talk utter rubbish and there's nothing wrong with wanting to restrict gun usage to save lives or caring about people who have lost loved ones. it's what decent people do. |  |
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| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 13:34 - Sep 11 with 353 views | J2BLUE |
| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 13:08 - Sep 11 by Libero |
So, *has* anyone said they don't have empathy for his family?
Sorry, just can't seem to locate it. I think every rational and reasonable human being would feel a degree of empathy for children growing up without their Father, they've lost someone close to them, it's irrelevant that the deceased is a POS, because he's still their Dad.
I'm not sure why anyone would be on Twitter anymore, tbh - I fully believe you that it is as you describe. |
As above, if people keep quoting him on empathy who are they talking about? You cannot have empathy for the dead.
Perhaps no one actually intended to even suggest they don't have empathy for his family so it's not something i'm going to spend all afternoon debating. Happy to give the benefit of the doubt.
I am mainly on Twitter for things like team news (for betting) and a few select CEO accounts of investments I have made. I tend to ignore the political side as it's toxic from all angles. | |
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| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 13:38 - Sep 11 with 322 views | NthQldITFC |
| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 13:10 - Sep 11 by Blueschev |
In what way am I shutting down debate? |
Presumably, in some indecipherable way, by not saying "Anyways, I must get on. Have a great day."? | |
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| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 14:46 - Sep 11 with 165 views | rkc123 |
| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 10:20 - Sep 11 by TownieRob |
Calling Charlie Kirk a quasi-fascist just because you disagreed with him isn’t an argument, it’s a lazy argument. He was passionate, articulate, and willing to debate those who opposed him. That’s the very opposite of fascism.
To say his murder as anything other than an attack on free speech and democracy is dsingenuous. A husband and father was gunned down for his opinions. That should horrify everyone, yet I’ve seen people celebrating it. Tweets, videos, TikToks open gloating. The the hypocrisy runs even deeper. I keep hearing (even on here) how Twitter/X is full of hate and how platforms like Bluesky are supposed to be “safe spaces" - I’ve seen plenty on Bluesky celebrating his death too. Turns out hate isn’t a platform problem, it’s a people problem.
He wasn’t a dictator, he was a commentator. A voice. If you think that makes him a fascist deserving of death, then you’ve abandoned democracy entirely. Free speech means tolerating views you don’t like, not silencing them with murder.
He always said: when people stop talking about problems, bad things happen. That’s where we are now with division, silence, and the celebration of violence. And if you can’t see how dangerous that is, you’re a huge part of the problem.
Democracy has suffered but more importantly, a family has suffered. |
If someone like Charlie Kirk is seen as a standard bearer for free speech and democracy in our society then we are in trouble. The term fascist does get thrown around too freely, but his style of debate was confrontational to the extreme, he avoided anyone with any actual knowledge on the things they were speaking about and instead made his reputation baiting naïve college students, and even then all of his social media content was edited and framed in a way to show him as the 'winner' of every debate, and embarrass the other side. He wasn't looking to discuss issues, he was making content and spreading what at times was a hateful message.
All that said you are right that the idea of celebrating his death is sickening, it goes without saying no one on either side of politics should be killed for expressing their views. | | | |
| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 14:53 - Sep 11 with 118 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 21:05 - Sep 10 by homer_123 |
Situations like this are gut-wrenching. Death, fighting, war and the wider theatre of power show how quickly rhetoric turns to ruin.
We are a fleck on a small blue rock floating through the universe acting like the bloody cosmos is keeping sodding score. For all we know, we are the only “intelligent life” (yeah right!) about...and we actively choose to do sh*t to each other.
Whatever flag we wave, violence solves nothing; it only multiplies grief. Let’s choose restraint over rage, care over point-scoring, and the stubborn, unfashionable decency that keeps human beings alive.
I fecking despair. |
"violence solves nothing" - History demonstrates otherwise, even if it isn't palatable.
How many people would say they would go back in time and kill a Hitler or a Stalin if given an opportunity?
What was WW2, if not ending of multiple fascist states through mass killing and violence?
If find it a bit odd that the sacrifice of ordinary people standing up and joining WW2 to end fascist states is so celebrated. But we one person who deliberately moves a state in that direction is killed people find it "gut-wrenching". It's all a bit too weird for me.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not cracking out the champagne. I have family in the US and seeing the politics and violence continue to move in this direction is concerning. But I can't muster any feeling for his loss. |  |
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