| The death penalty 09:17 - Mar 10 with 19800 views | SitfcB |
Bring it back.
Especially for scum like Ian Huntley.
How much does looking after that c**t, and others like him, in prison cost the UK taxpayer? Waste of resources.
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| The death penalty on 17:21 - Jan 22 with 2103 views | flykickingbybgunn |
Do we need a referendum on this ?
There are many questions on both sides.
Surely a vote will bring about a sufficient discussion for ordinary people to make an informed decision. |  | | |
| The death penalty on 18:12 - Jan 22 with 2034 views | MattinLondon |
| The death penalty on 17:21 - Jan 22 by flykickingbybgunn |
Do we need a referendum on this ?
There are many questions on both sides.
Surely a vote will bring about a sufficient discussion for ordinary people to make an informed decision. |
Interesting article about public opinion to the death penalty. Have to admit that I thought that more British people would be in favour of it. It’s a few years old but I wouldn’t hazard a guess that it’s probably still around the same.
https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/41640-britons-dont-tend-support-death-pen |  | | |
| The death penalty on 23:36 - Jan 22 with 1975 views | Whos_blue |
The shocking case today of the 12 year old stabbed to death by the 14 year old adds another conundrum to this debate.
If child killers are top of the execution list, how will that work if the killer themselves is a child?
The Bulger case is a classic example. How does that work? Are they jailed until they are 18 then executed? I say this slightly flippantly, but the point remains.
Any minor cannot be given a whole life tarrif either, regardles of the severity of the crime. Indeed, even Rudakubana cannot receive a whole life tarrif as he was under 18 at the time, so as it currently stands he couldn't be executed anyway.
There just doesn't seem any nuance in the death penalty arguement. It mainly seems caveated by a "what if it was your child" approach, rather than any desire to debate it. It's such a polarising issue, but those opposed seem to be able to articulate why they are against a little better, while those that are proponents are just because they are.
What is the benefit of the death penalty, when should it be used and what should be the prefered method? |  |
| Distortion becomes somehow pure in its wildness. |
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| The death penalty on 00:36 - Jan 23 with 1949 views | vapour_trail |
In amongst all the calling for the Southport bloke to be hanged, nobody seems bothered that he presented these behaviours when he was 13. Four years before he acted on them.
Our systems, bereft of funding and strategy, let him and the poor girls he attacked, down.
The public enquiry will provide demonstrable evidence that this was preventable. Sadly, nothing will change. Such a waste.
But yeah, bring back the death penalty. That’ll show em. |  |
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| The death penalty on 04:43 - Jan 23 with 1868 views | flykickingbybgunn |
You are right that is an interesting set of figures. Thankyou for finding them up.
An odd thing that I picked up from it was that most that voted for Brexit were in favour of the death penalty. And most that voted to remain were against it.
It never occured to me it was an EU issue. Or is that just reflecting the demographic that voted back in 2016 ? | | | |
| The death penalty on 07:18 - Jan 23 with 1800 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| The death penalty on 04:43 - Jan 23 by flykickingbybgunn |
You are right that is an interesting set of figures. Thankyou for finding them up.
An odd thing that I picked up from it was that most that voted for Brexit were in favour of the death penalty. And most that voted to remain were against it.
It never occured to me it was an EU issue. Or is that just reflecting the demographic that voted back in 2016 ? |
The demographic. I'd have thought that's pretty obvious, not sure why you thought it odd. It's older 'string 'em up/you'd never have done that in my day' types who are also 'get back to your country Jonny Foreigner, we want our country back' types. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| The death penalty on 07:31 - Jan 23 with 1778 views | textbackup |
| The death penalty on 09:33 - Mar 10 by Cotty |
Please google "UK miscarriages of justice". |
Please Google Ian Huntley |  |
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| The death penalty on 07:53 - Jan 23 with 1738 views | tcblue |
| The death penalty on 17:21 - Jan 22 by flykickingbybgunn |
Do we need a referendum on this ?
There are many questions on both sides.
Surely a vote will bring about a sufficient discussion for ordinary people to make an informed decision. |
Even if it was worth it (it isn't, we're not savages), what possible evidence can you point to which suggests a referendum would be a good idea, and the population would be informed, let alone compelled, enough to make a rational choice? |  | | |
| The death penalty on 08:16 - Jan 23 with 1711 views | Churchman |
| The death penalty on 17:21 - Jan 22 by flykickingbybgunn |
Do we need a referendum on this ?
There are many questions on both sides.
Surely a vote will bring about a sufficient discussion for ordinary people to make an informed decision. |
No, we don’t need a referendum on this or anything else. We’ve seen just how damaging they can be when based on slogans and ignorance. We elected a government to govern.
Get on with it. And stop kicking the can down the road with pointless reviews that’ll be ignored anyway. |  | | |
| The death penalty on 08:39 - Jan 23 with 1651 views | Kropotkin123 |
| The death penalty on 10:54 - Jan 22 by Trequartista |
Although the car accidents are accidents, it is not an accident to know in advance that innocent people will die.
For the early guilty plea removing the death penalty, you're getting into the whys and wherefores before they have been discussed. That rule wouldn't necessarily be in place. |
The death penalty serves no essential societal purpose and carries the irreversible risk of executing innocent people.
Transportation exists to provide essential benefits, and society works to reduce risks through safety measures. |  |
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| The death penalty on 21:12 - Jan 23 with 1525 views | football |
You are aware how miscarriages of justice there have been on the death penalty. | | | |
| The death penalty on 21:18 - Jan 23 with 1509 views | football |
| The death penalty on 11:17 - Mar 10 by blueasfook |
Here is a good example why we shouldnt have the death penalty....
Levi Bellfield (Millie Dowler killer) recently wrote a confession admitting to 2 murders in 1996 that another guy (Michael Stone) had been convicted for and has already served many years in prison.
If the death sentence had been implemented in these cases a) you would never have got a confession from Bellfield leading to b) Michael Stone being wrongly convicted and executed [Post edited 10 Mar 2022 11:18]
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There are many other reasons | | | |
| The death penalty on 21:22 - Jan 23 with 1499 views | football |
| The death penalty on 22:47 - Jan 20 by SitfcB |
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Absolutely no - Its wrong in every way. But this is a kid, he needs help | | | |
| The death penalty on 21:32 - Jan 23 with 1466 views | football |
| The death penalty on 21:22 - Jan 23 by football |
Absolutely no - Its wrong in every way. But this is a kid, he needs help |
One person being executed wrongly makes it wrong. There are way too many instances of wrong executions in the UK and USA to make it wrong. | | | |
| The death penalty on 22:32 - Jan 23 with 1373 views | Churchman |
| The death penalty on 21:22 - Jan 23 by football |
Absolutely no - Its wrong in every way. But this is a kid, he needs help |
No. He is not ‘a kid’. He has known right and wrong for years. He is an evil, twisted bit of filth that should be put away in the cheapest most basic conditions until removed by body bag.
Save your sympathy for the victims and their relations. | | | |
| The death penalty on 23:25 - Jan 23 with 1314 views | vapour_trail |
| The death penalty on 21:22 - Jan 23 by football |
Absolutely no - Its wrong in every way. But this is a kid, he needs help |
He displayed these behaviours and intentions at 13.
He was definitely a kid at 13. Unfortunately your posts are being downvoted and deleted for pointing this out.
He should have been sorted out or locked up long before he got near those poor girls. | |
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| The death penalty on 23:38 - Jan 23 with 1261 views | GlasgowBlue |
| The death penalty on 23:25 - Jan 23 by vapour_trail |
He displayed these behaviours and intentions at 13.
He was definitely a kid at 13. Unfortunately your posts are being downvoted and deleted for pointing this out.
He should have been sorted out or locked up long before he got near those poor girls. |
He's ben downvoted because he has already had one post removed by Phil for showing sympathy for Axel Rudakubana.
He's not a kid now and he wasn't a kid when he brutally murdered those poor kids. |  |
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| The death penalty on 23:38 - Jan 23 with 1248 views | lowhouseblue |
| The death penalty on 23:25 - Jan 23 by vapour_trail |
He displayed these behaviours and intentions at 13.
He was definitely a kid at 13. Unfortunately your posts are being downvoted and deleted for pointing this out.
He should have been sorted out or locked up long before he got near those poor girls. |
it's an absolute scandal that the chances to stop him were missed. i hope the public inquiry determines why those failures occurred. for me, unless there is a very severe psychiatric diagnosis which has not been disclosed, it doesn't alter his responsibility. he wasn't found unfit to plead and he didn't plead diminished responsibility. his age alone doesn't alter that. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| The death penalty on 23:41 - Jan 23 with 1233 views | vapour_trail |
| The death penalty on 23:38 - Jan 23 by lowhouseblue |
it's an absolute scandal that the chances to stop him were missed. i hope the public inquiry determines why those failures occurred. for me, unless there is a very severe psychiatric diagnosis which has not been disclosed, it doesn't alter his responsibility. he wasn't found unfit to plead and he didn't plead diminished responsibility. his age alone doesn't alter that. |
I agree. | |
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| The death penalty on 06:04 - Jan 24 with 1110 views | Swansea_Blue |
| The death penalty on 23:38 - Jan 23 by GlasgowBlue |
He's ben downvoted because he has already had one post removed by Phil for showing sympathy for Axel Rudakubana.
He's not a kid now and he wasn't a kid when he brutally murdered those poor kids. |
Legally, he was a child when he carried out the attack. Apart from that, as you were. |  |
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| The death penalty on 07:20 - Jan 24 with 1028 views | GlasgowBlue |
| The death penalty on 06:04 - Jan 24 by Swansea_Blue |
Legally, he was a child when he carried out the attack. Apart from that, as you were. |
The guidelines from the the government under which AK was sentenced use the terminology “ Sentences for children and young people under 18 ”. However, the excuse football has made on two posts, one of which Phil removed, is that he is just a kid. Football says that he is just a kid and needs help. He’s not a kid and he doesn’t need help. He needs put away for the rest of his life.
He isn’t and wasn’t a kid when he committed the crimes. He could legally leave school, have sex, get married, get a full time job, open a bank account without parental permission and join the armed forces. That’s a young person, not a child.
Perhaps you didn’t see the post that Phil removed. Perhaps you did and agree with him. But to use the excuse that AK is “ just a kid” in relation to the horrific crimes he committed is totaly reprehensible.
[Post edited 24 Jan 7:34]
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| The death penalty on 07:37 - Jan 24 with 994 views | Swansea_Blue |
| The death penalty on 07:20 - Jan 24 by GlasgowBlue |
The guidelines from the the government under which AK was sentenced use the terminology “ Sentences for children and young people under 18 ”. However, the excuse football has made on two posts, one of which Phil removed, is that he is just a kid. Football says that he is just a kid and needs help. He’s not a kid and he doesn’t need help. He needs put away for the rest of his life.
He isn’t and wasn’t a kid when he committed the crimes. He could legally leave school, have sex, get married, get a full time job, open a bank account without parental permission and join the armed forces. That’s a young person, not a child.
Perhaps you didn’t see the post that Phil removed. Perhaps you did and agree with him. But to use the excuse that AK is “ just a kid” in relation to the horrific crimes he committed is totaly reprehensible.
[Post edited 24 Jan 7:34]
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I’m not trying to justify his stance and didn’t see the post, do can’t comment on that poster’s views. Legally he was a child, that’s just a fact in UK law. Someone under 18 and in the forces would still legally be treated as a child. A kid is obviously a subjective term. I don’t know what the poster meant or was trying to imply by using it.
Ultimately it’s irrelevant, as the age of criminal responsibility is from 10. The only significance of him being a child is how he’s been treated in the system. It doesn’t make him any less guilty or less of a c***. | |
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| The death penalty on 08:04 - Jan 24 with 966 views | Churchman |
| The death penalty on 23:38 - Jan 23 by lowhouseblue |
it's an absolute scandal that the chances to stop him were missed. i hope the public inquiry determines why those failures occurred. for me, unless there is a very severe psychiatric diagnosis which has not been disclosed, it doesn't alter his responsibility. he wasn't found unfit to plead and he didn't plead diminished responsibility. his age alone doesn't alter that. |
If you are going to bother with yet another public enquiry, it needs to be all encompassing rather than a blame allocation game.
By this I mean it needs to look at why this creature did what it did, what mechanisms and structures were in place that could have prevented it. What resources were there and what pressures were on them? Are things dealt with differently across the U.K.?
Most important, what was the role of the parents in this? They brought this thing into the world. Where were they, what did they try to do? What response did they get?
How do other countries deal with situations like this?
Lastly, recommendations that are realistic, fit with the dreadful and unnecessary pressures our services are under, honest, remove fear of accusation and can be put in place immediately to reduce the risk of this ever happening again.
No kicking the can down the road. Just thought through measures to try and reduce the risk of loss and ruination of lives. In other words, I have far more questions than answers but I do think it is doable if there is a will to improve on something so horrendously difficult.
This musing is in its way separate to this case. The individual was deemed fit to plead. I see nothing but evil in it and I still maintain he should be put away in the meanest of conditions until death, costs offset by him and his family. | | | |
| The death penalty on 10:42 - Jan 24 with 872 views | Ryorry |
| The death penalty on 08:04 - Jan 24 by Churchman |
If you are going to bother with yet another public enquiry, it needs to be all encompassing rather than a blame allocation game.
By this I mean it needs to look at why this creature did what it did, what mechanisms and structures were in place that could have prevented it. What resources were there and what pressures were on them? Are things dealt with differently across the U.K.?
Most important, what was the role of the parents in this? They brought this thing into the world. Where were they, what did they try to do? What response did they get?
How do other countries deal with situations like this?
Lastly, recommendations that are realistic, fit with the dreadful and unnecessary pressures our services are under, honest, remove fear of accusation and can be put in place immediately to reduce the risk of this ever happening again.
No kicking the can down the road. Just thought through measures to try and reduce the risk of loss and ruination of lives. In other words, I have far more questions than answers but I do think it is doable if there is a will to improve on something so horrendously difficult.
This musing is in its way separate to this case. The individual was deemed fit to plead. I see nothing but evil in it and I still maintain he should be put away in the meanest of conditions until death, costs offset by him and his family. |
Good post, though I disagree with your last half sentence. We don’t know whether his parents desperately tried to put him on the right path all his life but just couldn’t handle him and didn’t get support; whether they just didn’t bother with him; or whether they were somehow partly responsible for his sick mindset.
The impact statement words of one of his young victims who survived stands out - “As he came towards me, his eyes were not human” (or words to that effect). I’m usually a nature + nurture believer, but this creature does make me think that perhaps some people really are just born evil. |  |
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