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The finance sector is a mystery to me so not sure if this is big or not... 00:03 - Sep 12 with 4078 viewscallis



Sounds it and people appear to have gone ape-sh1t on Twitter, no tweets from anyone playing it down. If this isn’t sensationalist or a dodgy source and what it’s getting across is true my brain might explode from the madness.

My hip flask is full of whiskey but my soul feels empty.
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The finance sector is a mystery to me so not sure if this is big or not... on 00:48 - Sep 12 with 1527 viewslinhdi

If true, it explains a lot. Unfortunately, many people still won't care.
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The finance sector is a mystery to me so not sure if this is big or not... on 00:49 - Sep 12 with 1528 viewsconnorscontract

This is unbelievably big if true. And makes it almost impossible for No Deal on 31st October to be stopped.

Funny how Boris has begun a £100 million campaign, during a Parliamentary shut-down, to convince people that this is a good idea and what they wanted all along.
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The finance sector is a mystery to me so not sure if this is big or not... on 01:03 - Sep 12 with 1516 viewscallis

The finance sector is a mystery to me so not sure if this is big or not... on 00:49 - Sep 12 by connorscontract

This is unbelievably big if true. And makes it almost impossible for No Deal on 31st October to be stopped.

Funny how Boris has begun a £100 million campaign, during a Parliamentary shut-down, to convince people that this is a good idea and what they wanted all along.


Gets weirder. Carole Cadwalladr’s gone in hard tweeting stuff tonight. Her pinned tweet that had no context a year ago is Nigel holding what appears to be a usb stick and a bag labelled as files with him actively trolling her saying “caught red handed”.



Not sure if I’ve gone too far down a hole here or it is legit something insane.

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The finance sector is a mystery to me so not sure if this is big or not... on 05:30 - Sep 12 with 1456 viewsRyorry

If true, it would actually constitute treason in my book, and I hope Her Maj would send him to the Tower, not least for lying to her.

Oh how satisfying would it be to see him relegated from no.10 to being prisoner no.10 detained at Her Majesty's pleasure within the space of a year - like Icarus, the higher the flier on his wings of feather and wax, the greater the fall!

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The finance sector is a mystery to me so not sure if this is big or not... on 05:51 - Sep 12 with 1440 viewsOldsmoker

The finance sector is a mystery to me so not sure if this is big or not... on 05:30 - Sep 12 by Ryorry

If true, it would actually constitute treason in my book, and I hope Her Maj would send him to the Tower, not least for lying to her.

Oh how satisfying would it be to see him relegated from no.10 to being prisoner no.10 detained at Her Majesty's pleasure within the space of a year - like Icarus, the higher the flier on his wings of feather and wax, the greater the fall!


Johnson is the fall-guy, the patsy in all of this.
The hedge fund managers have done nothing illegal.
Cummings has done nothing illegal that we can pin on him.
Johnson doesn't have to follow Cummings advice.
The 24hour rolling news is all about the Yellowhammer document.
With Westminster prorogued, news is going to be a bit thin so this story may go mainstream but as the links to Johnson are all innuendo it might not.

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The finance sector is a mystery to me so not sure if this is big or not... on 07:36 - Sep 12 with 1321 viewsHerbivore

The news outlets that matter won't report it so it won't filter down to the people who need to know about it. I'm not remotely surprised by any of this.

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The finance sector is a mystery to me so not sure if this is big or not... on 07:44 - Sep 12 with 1298 viewsStokieBlue

I would have said that's a clear conflict of interest but it might be not be illegal depending on the specifics.

What it does show without a shadow of a doubt is that the backers of the vote leave campaign are literally betting on an economic crash post brexit, a position which is at odds with how they described their backing and the results of brexit during the campaign.

SB

“You may not feel outstandingly robust, but if you are an average-sized adult you will contain within your modest frame no less than 7 X 10^18 joules of potential energy—enough to explode with the force of thirty very large hydrogen bombs, assuming you knew how to liberate it and really wished to make a point."

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The finance sector is a mystery to me so not sure if this is big or not... on 07:50 - Sep 12 with 1275 viewsSteve_M

there are a couple of important points on this:

1. It's well known that hedge funds, including those owned by some who backed Brexit, made a lot of money in 2016.

2. Taking out a position designed to make money in the event of No Deal isn't in itself evidence of anything malicious. Thousands of individuals will make financial decisions around that i.e. holding off on buying property in case prices crash. For hedge funds it's what they do.

3. The problem comes if some of those people have excessive influence over government policy. That isn't proven by this, nor by those people donating to Johnson, but that very fact that reasonable suspicions arise from something that will make the country as a whole poorer is at best unpleasant and at worst criminal.

I think Johnson is more trapped by electoral logic as a desire for donors to make money, he promised everything to become Prime Minister and didn't think about what would come next. He's backed himself into the same corner May did in weeks rather than months.

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The finance sector is a mystery to me so not sure if this is big or not... on 07:55 - Sep 12 with 1244 viewsBluefish

The finance sector is a mystery to me so not sure if this is big or not... on 07:50 - Sep 12 by Steve_M

there are a couple of important points on this:

1. It's well known that hedge funds, including those owned by some who backed Brexit, made a lot of money in 2016.

2. Taking out a position designed to make money in the event of No Deal isn't in itself evidence of anything malicious. Thousands of individuals will make financial decisions around that i.e. holding off on buying property in case prices crash. For hedge funds it's what they do.

3. The problem comes if some of those people have excessive influence over government policy. That isn't proven by this, nor by those people donating to Johnson, but that very fact that reasonable suspicions arise from something that will make the country as a whole poorer is at best unpleasant and at worst criminal.

I think Johnson is more trapped by electoral logic as a desire for donors to make money, he promised everything to become Prime Minister and didn't think about what would come next. He's backed himself into the same corner May did in weeks rather than months.


It seems a big grey area to insider trading

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The finance sector is a mystery to me so not sure if this is big or not... on 08:11 - Sep 12 with 1204 viewsSwansea_Blue

This is old news isn’t it. We’ve known for ages that Brexit backers are both betting against British companies and simultaneously pumping £millions into the Leave campaigns and personal campaigns of some of the lead political Brexiteers (Farage especially).

It stinks; whether it’s illegal is another thing. Cadwalladr is obviously too close for comfort as they’re doing all the can to wrap her up in legal challenges. The big question is where is some of this money coming from (Bank’s donations in particular are highly suspicious).

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The finance sector is a mystery to me so not sure if this is big or not... on 08:29 - Sep 12 with 1165 viewsGuthrum

The finance sector is a mystery to me so not sure if this is big or not... on 07:50 - Sep 12 by Steve_M

there are a couple of important points on this:

1. It's well known that hedge funds, including those owned by some who backed Brexit, made a lot of money in 2016.

2. Taking out a position designed to make money in the event of No Deal isn't in itself evidence of anything malicious. Thousands of individuals will make financial decisions around that i.e. holding off on buying property in case prices crash. For hedge funds it's what they do.

3. The problem comes if some of those people have excessive influence over government policy. That isn't proven by this, nor by those people donating to Johnson, but that very fact that reasonable suspicions arise from something that will make the country as a whole poorer is at best unpleasant and at worst criminal.

I think Johnson is more trapped by electoral logic as a desire for donors to make money, he promised everything to become Prime Minister and didn't think about what would come next. He's backed himself into the same corner May did in weeks rather than months.


Analysts are also charging for their advice. If it is possible to create an environment where there's lots of consultation needed, then you're boosting your income*. With a nod to CiL, chaos is a lot easier to create than stable prosperity.


* c.f. the Dot Com Bubble, where some people made a lot of money telling others to take crazy punts on fragile, overinflated stock.

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The finance sector is a mystery to me so not sure if this is big or not... on 08:43 - Sep 12 with 1127 viewsflimflam

The finance sector is a mystery to me so not sure if this is big or not... on 05:51 - Sep 12 by Oldsmoker

Johnson is the fall-guy, the patsy in all of this.
The hedge fund managers have done nothing illegal.
Cummings has done nothing illegal that we can pin on him.
Johnson doesn't have to follow Cummings advice.
The 24hour rolling news is all about the Yellowhammer document.
With Westminster prorogued, news is going to be a bit thin so this story may go mainstream but as the links to Johnson are all innuendo it might not.


Right or wrong this is loose change to hedge fund managers.

Why have they not investigated positions taken up on leaving with a deal or Brexit being cancelled altogether as there will be big money on all outcomes as is what they do.

Nothing to see here.
[Post edited 12 Sep 8:44]
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The finance sector is a mystery to me so not sure if this is big or not... on 08:46 - Sep 12 with 1111 viewswkj

The finance sector is a mystery to me so not sure if this is big or not... on 08:43 - Sep 12 by flimflam

Right or wrong this is loose change to hedge fund managers.

Why have they not investigated positions taken up on leaving with a deal or Brexit being cancelled altogether as there will be big money on all outcomes as is what they do.

Nothing to see here.
[Post edited 12 Sep 8:44]


Nothing to see here.


Exactly what they want, no one to see, you've been well trained.

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The finance sector is a mystery to me so not sure if this is big or not... on 08:51 - Sep 12 with 1092 viewsflimflam

The finance sector is a mystery to me so not sure if this is big or not... on 08:46 - Sep 12 by wkj

Nothing to see here.


Exactly what they want, no one to see, you've been well trained.


You know how much money sloshes around in the money markets each day?

This is a drop in the ocean and the article makes claims but names noone directly!

I take you know what the term hedge means in the money markets? These companies will no doubt have positions on other areas of brexit also but guess reporting them also does not meet the requirements of the investigation.
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The finance sector is a mystery to me so not sure if this is big or not... on 08:53 - Sep 12 with 1078 viewswkj

The finance sector is a mystery to me so not sure if this is big or not... on 08:51 - Sep 12 by flimflam

You know how much money sloshes around in the money markets each day?

This is a drop in the ocean and the article makes claims but names noone directly!

I take you know what the term hedge means in the money markets? These companies will no doubt have positions on other areas of brexit also but guess reporting them also does not meet the requirements of the investigation.


I am quite familiar with economics and money I can assure you, which is why my view is there is always something to see here.

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The finance sector is a mystery to me so not sure if this is big or not... on 08:56 - Sep 12 with 1066 viewsStokieBlue

The finance sector is a mystery to me so not sure if this is big or not... on 08:51 - Sep 12 by flimflam

You know how much money sloshes around in the money markets each day?

This is a drop in the ocean and the article makes claims but names noone directly!

I take you know what the term hedge means in the money markets? These companies will no doubt have positions on other areas of brexit also but guess reporting them also does not meet the requirements of the investigation.


You're not really being fair here.

They are taking positions which increase in value if their is a crash and then providing funds which they believe will help facilitate that crash. It's highly unlikely they have long positions betting on a good brexit outcome given that.

You'll need to provide some evidence that they do if you're going to make the assertion.

The term hedge in the way you are applying it doesn't really mean what you are implying with regards to hedge funds, at least not any more.

SB

“You may not feel outstandingly robust, but if you are an average-sized adult you will contain within your modest frame no less than 7 X 10^18 joules of potential energy—enough to explode with the force of thirty very large hydrogen bombs, assuming you knew how to liberate it and really wished to make a point."

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The finance sector is a mystery to me so not sure if this is big or not... on 08:57 - Sep 12 with 1058 viewswkj

The finance sector is a mystery to me so not sure if this is big or not... on 08:56 - Sep 12 by StokieBlue

You're not really being fair here.

They are taking positions which increase in value if their is a crash and then providing funds which they believe will help facilitate that crash. It's highly unlikely they have long positions betting on a good brexit outcome given that.

You'll need to provide some evidence that they do if you're going to make the assertion.

The term hedge in the way you are applying it doesn't really mean what you are implying with regards to hedge funds, at least not any more.

SB


,brexit

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The finance sector is a mystery to me so not sure if this is big or not... on 08:59 - Sep 12 with 1056 viewslowhouseblue

hedge funds 'bet' on asset prices. the outcome of brexit - whatever it is - will probably cause asset prices, eg. sterling, to move. fund managers that have a view on the outcome of Brexit - what will happen, how it will affect asset prices - and will place 'bets' in accordance with those views. it is unsurprising that with weeks to go funds should have developed positions. it is the purpose of these funds. nothing to see here.
[Post edited 12 Sep 9:01]

And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show

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The finance sector is a mystery to me so not sure if this is big or not... on 08:59 - Sep 12 with 1053 viewsflimflam

The finance sector is a mystery to me so not sure if this is big or not... on 08:53 - Sep 12 by wkj

I am quite familiar with economics and money I can assure you, which is why my view is there is always something to see here.


Can someone explain though how they can make money on a no deal brexit per se?

They cant. They make money by going short or long on a particular currency, probably in this case the pound. They are guessing a no deal will see a bear spike and they will cash in. If they win however someone else loses so who are they? Can the article elaborate on those too?

As you know this is how they work and they make money on market volatility which brexit is providing them in abundance. Its like shooting fish in a barrel for them. They are private companies investing private money looking to make a quick buck on spikes in the markets.

As i said nothing to see here.
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The finance sector is a mystery to me so not sure if this is big or not... on 09:01 - Sep 12 with 1036 viewswkj

The finance sector is a mystery to me so not sure if this is big or not... on 08:59 - Sep 12 by flimflam

Can someone explain though how they can make money on a no deal brexit per se?

They cant. They make money by going short or long on a particular currency, probably in this case the pound. They are guessing a no deal will see a bear spike and they will cash in. If they win however someone else loses so who are they? Can the article elaborate on those too?

As you know this is how they work and they make money on market volatility which brexit is providing them in abundance. Its like shooting fish in a barrel for them. They are private companies investing private money looking to make a quick buck on spikes in the markets.

As i said nothing to see here.


Never nothing to see when it comes to economics, regardless how it looks against something we support.

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The finance sector is a mystery to me so not sure if this is big or not... on 09:02 - Sep 12 with 1034 viewsflimflam

The finance sector is a mystery to me so not sure if this is big or not... on 08:56 - Sep 12 by StokieBlue

You're not really being fair here.

They are taking positions which increase in value if their is a crash and then providing funds which they believe will help facilitate that crash. It's highly unlikely they have long positions betting on a good brexit outcome given that.

You'll need to provide some evidence that they do if you're going to make the assertion.

The term hedge in the way you are applying it doesn't really mean what you are implying with regards to hedge funds, at least not any more.

SB


The markets work on the basis if you make money someone somewhere else loses.

Can the article investigate who will lose if these particular hedge funds win?
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The finance sector is a mystery to me so not sure if this is big or not... on 09:04 - Sep 12 with 1017 viewsStokieBlue

The finance sector is a mystery to me so not sure if this is big or not... on 08:59 - Sep 12 by lowhouseblue

hedge funds 'bet' on asset prices. the outcome of brexit - whatever it is - will probably cause asset prices, eg. sterling, to move. fund managers that have a view on the outcome of Brexit - what will happen, how it will affect asset prices - and will place 'bets' in accordance with those views. it is unsurprising that with weeks to go funds should have developed positions. it is the purpose of these funds. nothing to see here.
[Post edited 12 Sep 9:01]


I don't entirely agree.

It's fine to take a short position if your view is that brexit will cause a decrease in said asset prices. However having taken that view is it then right to try and make it happen by funding the side which can facilitate it?

They are trying to make something happen which they believe to be bad but don't care as they will profit.

SB

“You may not feel outstandingly robust, but if you are an average-sized adult you will contain within your modest frame no less than 7 X 10^18 joules of potential energy—enough to explode with the force of thirty very large hydrogen bombs, assuming you knew how to liberate it and really wished to make a point."

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The finance sector is a mystery to me so not sure if this is big or not... on 09:07 - Sep 12 with 995 viewsflimflam

The finance sector is a mystery to me so not sure if this is big or not... on 09:04 - Sep 12 by StokieBlue

I don't entirely agree.

It's fine to take a short position if your view is that brexit will cause a decrease in said asset prices. However having taken that view is it then right to try and make it happen by funding the side which can facilitate it?

They are trying to make something happen which they believe to be bad but don't care as they will profit.

SB


No I agree that is not right but I would guess these companies are not all in on one direction and will have "hedged" their positions.

Sadly they make as much money out of negativity in the markets as positivity. I should know as had a steep learning curve when I started trading a few years back.
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The finance sector is a mystery to me so not sure if this is big or not... on 09:07 - Sep 12 with 994 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

Much the same as I imagine Trump 's favourites are making from a little advance notice of his tweets.....suck it up slaves!

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The finance sector is a mystery to me so not sure if this is big or not... on 09:09 - Sep 12 with 982 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

The finance sector is a mystery to me so not sure if this is big or not... on 07:44 - Sep 12 by StokieBlue

I would have said that's a clear conflict of interest but it might be not be illegal depending on the specifics.

What it does show without a shadow of a doubt is that the backers of the vote leave campaign are literally betting on an economic crash post brexit, a position which is at odds with how they described their backing and the results of brexit during the campaign.

SB


It's almost like disaster Capitalism is a thing.

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