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Talk of McGuinness to Sheff Weds 16:42 - May 30 with 11732 viewsGavTWTD

Mainly on OwlStalk and local press comments.

Worth a punt?

Seems he has a year left on his contract.

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Talk of McGuinness to Sheff Weds on 22:27 - May 30 with 2926 viewsHorsham

Talk of McGuinness to Sheff Weds on 20:11 - May 30 by monty_radio

On the other hand Beattie and Butcher could probably have worked something out


Osman was left footed. My memory must have failed me. To be fair they pretty much worked most things out. On the whole and with no stats to back it up I’d wager there’s been more successful right footers playing on the ‘wrong side’ than left footers, purely as left footers tend to be in a minority and less likely to play on the ‘wrong side’ than right footers.
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Talk of McGuinness to Sheff Weds on 22:29 - May 30 with 2927 viewsArnieM

Talk of McGuinness to Sheff Weds on 19:43 - May 30 by dirtyboy

We’ve been playing using the strengths of our CBS, Burgess is very good in the air, Woolfenden is quite measured in cutting stuff out. Both have shown to be more than capable with the ball at their feet and that’s because the rest of the team give them an early option and also work hard before it gets as far as them.

Including Fridge, all are capable at Championship level.

Where the margins will be tight will be unlocking defences and scoring with less chances afforded.


A measured post thank you. Wolfie can pick out a pass . And as you say Burgess is good with his head. I call him a typical CB. He deals with stuff as it comes into the box. For me, Woolfie is weaker is these attributes. Maybe I have an old fashioned view of “ defending”. For me it’s about marshalling your attacker, winning those balls in the air, making timely challenges, making the right decisions: choices, and generally dominating that defensive area, and clearing your lines. For me Woolfie can’t actually header a ball (pretty basic for a CB surely?) . He’s moderately quick, but doesn’t always dominate his man, is frequently outmuscled. I’ve frequently asked what is he. A defender or a defensive midfielder. We have better in both positions.

McKenna likes him because he fits the bringing the ball out of defence roll. But surely there’s more to bring a CB than that?? And certainly at the higher level! I’m not trying to diss one of our own. But I’m not sure he’ll be strong enough against better attackers . I would say he has improved over the last season, but if we had bought him in to be our CB I’d have felt we could have done better.
Edmundson (as someone else has already highlighted) , makes the wrong decisions, gets caught up field or in possession. For me, he’s not good enough.

It’s about views and opinions and what disappoints me is you can’t seem to have a view of opinion on here that’s different, or you get slammed down by the same individuals. At least you’ve argued your point and reasoned it through - unlike some , and I respect you for that. Thank you.

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Talk of McGuinness to Sheff Weds on 22:35 - May 30 with 2900 viewsHorsham

Talk of McGuinness to Sheff Weds on 22:29 - May 30 by ArnieM

A measured post thank you. Wolfie can pick out a pass . And as you say Burgess is good with his head. I call him a typical CB. He deals with stuff as it comes into the box. For me, Woolfie is weaker is these attributes. Maybe I have an old fashioned view of “ defending”. For me it’s about marshalling your attacker, winning those balls in the air, making timely challenges, making the right decisions: choices, and generally dominating that defensive area, and clearing your lines. For me Woolfie can’t actually header a ball (pretty basic for a CB surely?) . He’s moderately quick, but doesn’t always dominate his man, is frequently outmuscled. I’ve frequently asked what is he. A defender or a defensive midfielder. We have better in both positions.

McKenna likes him because he fits the bringing the ball out of defence roll. But surely there’s more to bring a CB than that?? And certainly at the higher level! I’m not trying to diss one of our own. But I’m not sure he’ll be strong enough against better attackers . I would say he has improved over the last season, but if we had bought him in to be our CB I’d have felt we could have done better.
Edmundson (as someone else has already highlighted) , makes the wrong decisions, gets caught up field or in possession. For me, he’s not good enough.

It’s about views and opinions and what disappoints me is you can’t seem to have a view of opinion on here that’s different, or you get slammed down by the same individuals. At least you’ve argued your point and reasoned it through - unlike some , and I respect you for that. Thank you.


To be fair you’ve been consistent with your opinion on Woolfie. It’s one I disagree with you as there’s plenty of evidence to suggest he isn’t just good at playing out but on the subject of playing out, that will be hugely important to get right next season. I think you are right! You are being old fashioned. Those days are gone with right and left midfielders and a little man playing off a big man up front. We’re not gonna be chucking it in the mixer!
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Talk of McGuinness to Sheff Weds on 22:39 - May 30 with 2880 viewsBlueBadger

Talk of McGuinness to Sheff Weds on 19:22 - May 30 by Herbivore

Madness. Woolf is quality.


Impressive really that I can see Frimers, Chico, Dollers and the Piggot Weirdo on the same page but yet Arnie's managed to make the stupidest point on it.
[Post edited 30 May 2023 22:40]

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Talk of McGuinness to Sheff Weds on 22:45 - May 30 with 2854 viewsMach_foreignBlue

Talk of McGuinness to Sheff Weds on 22:39 - May 30 by BlueBadger

Impressive really that I can see Frimers, Chico, Dollers and the Piggot Weirdo on the same page but yet Arnie's managed to make the stupidest point on it.
[Post edited 30 May 2023 22:40]


Calm down sweetie ! Switch on BBC and tell us what they said.
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Talk of McGuinness to Sheff Weds on 22:49 - May 30 with 2861 viewstractordownsouth

Talk of McGuinness to Sheff Weds on 22:23 - May 30 by xrayspecs

None of our CBs have Champ experience, so fair comment. And the quality of the press will be higher than in L1.

I would expect serious upgrades across the team will be needed and CBs could see a lot more change than many expect.

Would hope to see LW given the chance to step up. Fridge (injuries) and Burgess (pace+) have a lot to prove.


I don’t think the quality of the press will be the issue with our defenders as they’re all very comfortable on the ball. The unknown is how they’ll cope under sustained periods of pressure, something which hasn’t been very common this season.

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Talk of McGuinness to Sheff Weds on 23:06 - May 30 with 2838 viewsblueoxford

Talk of McGuinness to Sheff Weds on 19:10 - May 30 by SheffordBlue

I think that's true in the League. Harper's horrific ball across the box to the Colchester player in the EFL Cup counts though I think


Not sure if you can put Harper’s pass under the category of ‘playing out from the back’. It was just a shocking mistake
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Talk of McGuinness to Sheff Weds on 02:51 - May 31 with 2761 viewsKropotkin123

Talk of McGuinness to Sheff Weds on 22:29 - May 30 by ArnieM

A measured post thank you. Wolfie can pick out a pass . And as you say Burgess is good with his head. I call him a typical CB. He deals with stuff as it comes into the box. For me, Woolfie is weaker is these attributes. Maybe I have an old fashioned view of “ defending”. For me it’s about marshalling your attacker, winning those balls in the air, making timely challenges, making the right decisions: choices, and generally dominating that defensive area, and clearing your lines. For me Woolfie can’t actually header a ball (pretty basic for a CB surely?) . He’s moderately quick, but doesn’t always dominate his man, is frequently outmuscled. I’ve frequently asked what is he. A defender or a defensive midfielder. We have better in both positions.

McKenna likes him because he fits the bringing the ball out of defence roll. But surely there’s more to bring a CB than that?? And certainly at the higher level! I’m not trying to diss one of our own. But I’m not sure he’ll be strong enough against better attackers . I would say he has improved over the last season, but if we had bought him in to be our CB I’d have felt we could have done better.
Edmundson (as someone else has already highlighted) , makes the wrong decisions, gets caught up field or in possession. For me, he’s not good enough.

It’s about views and opinions and what disappoints me is you can’t seem to have a view of opinion on here that’s different, or you get slammed down by the same individuals. At least you’ve argued your point and reasoned it through - unlike some , and I respect you for that. Thank you.


Yeah, I don't agree. I think Woolf is our best defender. I'd be surprised if he doesn't start the season. No one did to Woolf what Hirst did to Anderson, who seems to be a popular suggestion to join.

I agree that CB is a place we will look to strengthen. I like Burgess, and think he can step up. He's better on the ball than people give him credit for. I'm not sold on Edmundson based on what I saw this year. Think he was a point of weakness.

Whilst I disagree on Woolf and somewhat on Burgess, I think it is baffling that people feel the need to call you "stupid". If a poll went up tomorrow about the position we'd most need to improve upon, CB would likely win it.

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Talk of McGuinness to Sheff Weds on 06:51 - May 31 with 2697 viewsSheffordBlue

Talk of McGuinness to Sheff Weds on 22:29 - May 30 by ArnieM

A measured post thank you. Wolfie can pick out a pass . And as you say Burgess is good with his head. I call him a typical CB. He deals with stuff as it comes into the box. For me, Woolfie is weaker is these attributes. Maybe I have an old fashioned view of “ defending”. For me it’s about marshalling your attacker, winning those balls in the air, making timely challenges, making the right decisions: choices, and generally dominating that defensive area, and clearing your lines. For me Woolfie can’t actually header a ball (pretty basic for a CB surely?) . He’s moderately quick, but doesn’t always dominate his man, is frequently outmuscled. I’ve frequently asked what is he. A defender or a defensive midfielder. We have better in both positions.

McKenna likes him because he fits the bringing the ball out of defence roll. But surely there’s more to bring a CB than that?? And certainly at the higher level! I’m not trying to diss one of our own. But I’m not sure he’ll be strong enough against better attackers . I would say he has improved over the last season, but if we had bought him in to be our CB I’d have felt we could have done better.
Edmundson (as someone else has already highlighted) , makes the wrong decisions, gets caught up field or in possession. For me, he’s not good enough.

It’s about views and opinions and what disappoints me is you can’t seem to have a view of opinion on here that’s different, or you get slammed down by the same individuals. At least you’ve argued your point and reasoned it through - unlike some , and I respect you for that. Thank you.


I think the defensive attribute that you miss in your list is one of Woolfie's strongest and that's his ability to read the game well. Our defensive patterns of play are really dependent on defending as a unit and his ability to see where a pass will be made by the opposition or where someone is making a run allows the unit to function well. There's a reason we conceded the fewest shots in the league by a long way.

I think there are some valid questions as to how much we'll have to adopt our way of playing both when we have the ball and when we don't in the Championship but I think against the better attacking teams his ability to read play will be important.

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Talk of McGuinness to Sheff Weds on 07:10 - May 31 with 2676 viewsmrfixit426

Talk of McGuinness to Sheff Weds on 22:29 - May 30 by ArnieM

A measured post thank you. Wolfie can pick out a pass . And as you say Burgess is good with his head. I call him a typical CB. He deals with stuff as it comes into the box. For me, Woolfie is weaker is these attributes. Maybe I have an old fashioned view of “ defending”. For me it’s about marshalling your attacker, winning those balls in the air, making timely challenges, making the right decisions: choices, and generally dominating that defensive area, and clearing your lines. For me Woolfie can’t actually header a ball (pretty basic for a CB surely?) . He’s moderately quick, but doesn’t always dominate his man, is frequently outmuscled. I’ve frequently asked what is he. A defender or a defensive midfielder. We have better in both positions.

McKenna likes him because he fits the bringing the ball out of defence roll. But surely there’s more to bring a CB than that?? And certainly at the higher level! I’m not trying to diss one of our own. But I’m not sure he’ll be strong enough against better attackers . I would say he has improved over the last season, but if we had bought him in to be our CB I’d have felt we could have done better.
Edmundson (as someone else has already highlighted) , makes the wrong decisions, gets caught up field or in possession. For me, he’s not good enough.

It’s about views and opinions and what disappoints me is you can’t seem to have a view of opinion on here that’s different, or you get slammed down by the same individuals. At least you’ve argued your point and reasoned it through - unlike some , and I respect you for that. Thank you.


I think I've been watching a different Luke Woolfenden than you. The player I've been watching has improved throughout the season, particularly with positional play and reading of the game.

You say he can't head the ball, yet I've rarely seen him lose one. He positions himself brilliantly and anchors his feet so is never outmuscled, and then just heads it away. Just because he doesn't jump very often to win headers, doesn't mean he isn't successful in a high percentage of ariel battles. I'd like to see the stats for this.

Also, I've not seen a forward push it past him and retain the ball, not once. He always wins those 50/50 challenges. He's stronger (and quicker) than you think.

think he's had a brilliant season and will flourish in the Championship.
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Talk of McGuinness to Sheff Weds on 07:11 - May 31 with 2676 viewsitfcjoe

Talk of McGuinness to Sheff Weds on 17:31 - May 30 by cbower

How much do you really think a right foot - left foot centre back pairing is essential? I'm not so sure it matters if you have quality.


I don’t think it’s essential, but with how we push our FBs on it really helps the covering part of the game if going across on to natural foot - and it also opens up sone nicer passing lanes from the angle it gives you for balls down the line.

The Doyle pass to Gyok for the Cov goal in PO Final a great example of the passing angle.

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Talk of McGuinness to Sheff Weds on 07:26 - May 31 with 2656 viewsMJallday

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Talk of McGuinness to Sheff Weds on 07:35 - May 31 with 2645 viewsitfcjoe

Talk of McGuinness to Sheff Weds on 22:29 - May 30 by ArnieM

A measured post thank you. Wolfie can pick out a pass . And as you say Burgess is good with his head. I call him a typical CB. He deals with stuff as it comes into the box. For me, Woolfie is weaker is these attributes. Maybe I have an old fashioned view of “ defending”. For me it’s about marshalling your attacker, winning those balls in the air, making timely challenges, making the right decisions: choices, and generally dominating that defensive area, and clearing your lines. For me Woolfie can’t actually header a ball (pretty basic for a CB surely?) . He’s moderately quick, but doesn’t always dominate his man, is frequently outmuscled. I’ve frequently asked what is he. A defender or a defensive midfielder. We have better in both positions.

McKenna likes him because he fits the bringing the ball out of defence roll. But surely there’s more to bring a CB than that?? And certainly at the higher level! I’m not trying to diss one of our own. But I’m not sure he’ll be strong enough against better attackers . I would say he has improved over the last season, but if we had bought him in to be our CB I’d have felt we could have done better.
Edmundson (as someone else has already highlighted) , makes the wrong decisions, gets caught up field or in possession. For me, he’s not good enough.

It’s about views and opinions and what disappoints me is you can’t seem to have a view of opinion on here that’s different, or you get slammed down by the same individuals. At least you’ve argued your point and reasoned it through - unlike some , and I respect you for that. Thank you.


You do realise Woolfenden is our number 6?

The one who has kept all the best forwards in the league quiet all season, winning his physical battles and also not being outpaced all season by anyone? Reads the game excellently and puts the after burners on when needed

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Talk of McGuinness to Sheff Weds on 07:53 - May 31 with 2628 viewstractorboy1978

Talk of McGuinness to Sheff Weds on 07:11 - May 31 by itfcjoe

I don’t think it’s essential, but with how we push our FBs on it really helps the covering part of the game if going across on to natural foot - and it also opens up sone nicer passing lanes from the angle it gives you for balls down the line.

The Doyle pass to Gyok for the Cov goal in PO Final a great example of the passing angle.


Doyle is the ideal player for us. It will be interesting to see where he ends up for 2023/24. You'd assume the next step is a Premier League loan if they can get him one but you don't often see 19 year CBs starting in Premier League defences.
[Post edited 31 May 2023 7:55]
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Talk of McGuinness to Sheff Weds on 07:55 - May 31 with 2622 viewsPioneerBlue

Talk of McGuinness to Sheff Weds on 22:29 - May 30 by ArnieM

A measured post thank you. Wolfie can pick out a pass . And as you say Burgess is good with his head. I call him a typical CB. He deals with stuff as it comes into the box. For me, Woolfie is weaker is these attributes. Maybe I have an old fashioned view of “ defending”. For me it’s about marshalling your attacker, winning those balls in the air, making timely challenges, making the right decisions: choices, and generally dominating that defensive area, and clearing your lines. For me Woolfie can’t actually header a ball (pretty basic for a CB surely?) . He’s moderately quick, but doesn’t always dominate his man, is frequently outmuscled. I’ve frequently asked what is he. A defender or a defensive midfielder. We have better in both positions.

McKenna likes him because he fits the bringing the ball out of defence roll. But surely there’s more to bring a CB than that?? And certainly at the higher level! I’m not trying to diss one of our own. But I’m not sure he’ll be strong enough against better attackers . I would say he has improved over the last season, but if we had bought him in to be our CB I’d have felt we could have done better.
Edmundson (as someone else has already highlighted) , makes the wrong decisions, gets caught up field or in possession. For me, he’s not good enough.

It’s about views and opinions and what disappoints me is you can’t seem to have a view of opinion on here that’s different, or you get slammed down by the same individuals. At least you’ve argued your point and reasoned it through - unlike some , and I respect you for that. Thank you.


Your analysis is not completely off on the strengths and weaknesses but in my view they are both part of a high performing unit with only 35 goals conceded over 46 games. With a lead defending record of 65%. We don’t know if that translates at next level. We will likely need strengthening through the core but probably not in Wolf’s position, perhaps LCB.

Either way, the defensive will look different day 1 because Clark is suspended.

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Talk of McGuinness to Sheff Weds on 07:56 - May 31 with 2618 viewsBondiBlue

Talk of McGuinness to Sheff Weds on 07:35 - May 31 by itfcjoe

You do realise Woolfenden is our number 6?

The one who has kept all the best forwards in the league quiet all season, winning his physical battles and also not being outpaced all season by anyone? Reads the game excellently and puts the after burners on when needed


Woolfenden cruised through last season. We can try picking apart his game if we really want but he made everything look easy. Will be fine in the championship. May have to break the occasional sweat but will be fine.

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Talk of McGuinness to Sheff Weds on 08:07 - May 31 with 2606 viewsNthQldITFC

I have to add to the Woolfenden discussion - he's had a fantastic season and he's still getting better. As everyone else is saying, he reads the game exceptionally well and he gains a half a yard on every striker I've seen him play against because of his reading of the game. He doesn't often have to be making 50/50 tackles very often because he's ahead of his opponent.

All I can remember of him from the season just gone is him having everybody he played against in his pocket. Add to that his ability to step out with ball and calmly find a teammate, and you've got certainly one of our top three players in their position. To question his capability to not just step up, but to be a top player in the second division is nuts.

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Talk of McGuinness to Sheff Weds on 08:09 - May 31 with 2600 viewsGavTWTD

Talk of McGuinness to Sheff Weds on 19:13 - May 30 by ArnieM

I’ll be honest with you and say I don’t think any of our CB’s will be strong enough next season . Out of the three (Burgess, Edmundson, Woolfie), the only one that is a “safe CB” (I’m talking defending here not a role of bringing a ball a few yards out defence before passing 5 yards forward), would be Burgess. I’d sell Edmundson and probably Woolfie too. Which I appreciate don’t go down well with a lot on here. We are going to need far better “ defenders” in my humble view.


It's fine to have your opinion of course but what would be more sensible Shirley in your scenario would be to have these as backup rather than selling as we need 2 for every position. I do think we'll boost the defense but whether they become first choice remains to be seen.

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Talk of McGuinness to Sheff Weds on 08:17 - May 31 with 2584 viewsHerbivore

Talk of McGuinness to Sheff Weds on 07:35 - May 31 by itfcjoe

You do realise Woolfenden is our number 6?

The one who has kept all the best forwards in the league quiet all season, winning his physical battles and also not being outpaced all season by anyone? Reads the game excellently and puts the after burners on when needed


Indeed. Clarke-Harris has spent 180 minutes in Woolf's pocket this season despite being the leading number 9 in the division and quite a physical threat. Genuinely cannot understand how someone can have watched us this season and formed that view of Woolfenden. The only way he goes this summer is if a bigger club stumps up some serious cash, there's no way we'll be actively looking to replace him.

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Talk of McGuinness to Sheff Weds on 08:20 - May 31 with 2575 viewsitfcjoe

Talk of McGuinness to Sheff Weds on 07:53 - May 31 by tractorboy1978

Doyle is the ideal player for us. It will be interesting to see where he ends up for 2023/24. You'd assume the next step is a Premier League loan if they can get him one but you don't often see 19 year CBs starting in Premier League defences.
[Post edited 31 May 2023 7:55]


I imagine a Bundesliga loan would be on the cards if they can’t sort a PL one

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Talk of McGuinness to Sheff Weds on 08:43 - May 31 with 2525 viewsMullet

Talk of McGuinness to Sheff Weds on 22:23 - May 30 by xrayspecs

None of our CBs have Champ experience, so fair comment. And the quality of the press will be higher than in L1.

I would expect serious upgrades across the team will be needed and CBs could see a lot more change than many expect.

Would hope to see LW given the chance to step up. Fridge (injuries) and Burgess (pace+) have a lot to prove.


All of them have played in the Championship to be fair, Woolf and Burgess were youngsters and Burgess actually played against us in midfield for his debut at FPR. Edmundson had a loan at Derby too.

They've not been first teamers at this level for a season, but the idea that Woolf especially isn't ready to step up is nonsense. I've no idea what Arnie is going on about here

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Talk of McGuinness to Sheff Weds on 10:40 - May 31 with 2403 viewshype313

Talk of McGuinness to Sheff Weds on 22:29 - May 30 by ArnieM

A measured post thank you. Wolfie can pick out a pass . And as you say Burgess is good with his head. I call him a typical CB. He deals with stuff as it comes into the box. For me, Woolfie is weaker is these attributes. Maybe I have an old fashioned view of “ defending”. For me it’s about marshalling your attacker, winning those balls in the air, making timely challenges, making the right decisions: choices, and generally dominating that defensive area, and clearing your lines. For me Woolfie can’t actually header a ball (pretty basic for a CB surely?) . He’s moderately quick, but doesn’t always dominate his man, is frequently outmuscled. I’ve frequently asked what is he. A defender or a defensive midfielder. We have better in both positions.

McKenna likes him because he fits the bringing the ball out of defence roll. But surely there’s more to bring a CB than that?? And certainly at the higher level! I’m not trying to diss one of our own. But I’m not sure he’ll be strong enough against better attackers . I would say he has improved over the last season, but if we had bought him in to be our CB I’d have felt we could have done better.
Edmundson (as someone else has already highlighted) , makes the wrong decisions, gets caught up field or in possession. For me, he’s not good enough.

It’s about views and opinions and what disappoints me is you can’t seem to have a view of opinion on here that’s different, or you get slammed down by the same individuals. At least you’ve argued your point and reasoned it through - unlike some , and I respect you for that. Thank you.


You do realise Wolfie and Fridge played against the best championship side last season, and it needed them extra time to get a winner after 180 minutes of football.

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Talk of McGuinness to Sheff Weds on 10:50 - May 31 with 2372 viewsPhilTWTD

Talk of McGuinness to Sheff Weds on 08:07 - May 31 by NthQldITFC

I have to add to the Woolfenden discussion - he's had a fantastic season and he's still getting better. As everyone else is saying, he reads the game exceptionally well and he gains a half a yard on every striker I've seen him play against because of his reading of the game. He doesn't often have to be making 50/50 tackles very often because he's ahead of his opponent.

All I can remember of him from the season just gone is him having everybody he played against in his pocket. Add to that his ability to step out with ball and calmly find a teammate, and you've got certainly one of our top three players in their position. To question his capability to not just step up, but to be a top player in the second division is nuts.


It'll be a good test for him. I know there have been Championship clubs who have looked at him but ultimately opted not to make an approach for him, albeit prior to last season, and there have been managers here who haven't had confidence in him due to losing concentration at times.

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Talk of McGuinness to Sheff Weds on 10:59 - May 31 with 2327 viewsthe_toff

Is he any better than what we've got already?

I think we'll be looking to add players that can improve us and continuing to replace our weakest link. I wouldn't be in a hurry to drop our defenders for him, especially when we have Edmundson who is still relatively young himself and can't get in our side.

As for Woolfenden he's been near faultless this season so it seems an odd time to be digging him out.
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Talk of McGuinness to Sheff Weds on 11:08 - May 31 with 2273 viewsNaylorsrightboot

Talk of McGuinness to Sheff Weds on 19:13 - May 30 by ArnieM

I’ll be honest with you and say I don’t think any of our CB’s will be strong enough next season . Out of the three (Burgess, Edmundson, Woolfie), the only one that is a “safe CB” (I’m talking defending here not a role of bringing a ball a few yards out defence before passing 5 yards forward), would be Burgess. I’d sell Edmundson and probably Woolfie too. Which I appreciate don’t go down well with a lot on here. We are going to need far better “ defenders” in my humble view.


l can see you have gotten a lot of stick for this post. l tend to agree with you though. l think our defence could struggle. Burgess will be out of his depth. Edmundson has never convinced me and with Wolfy you still worry that his laid back approach will do for him in the Championship. Id like to see 2 seasoned professionals like Keogh but younger who have that Championship/Premiership nous about them.
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