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Evans puts in £6-8m a year? Err NO.... 17:31 - Oct 10 with 10139 viewsFrankfurtBlue

he doesn't! Not since 2014 has he put in £3m+ in one season.

I read on here, and know fans, who really believe that he puts in £5m+ each and every season. That is a myth, prepetuated over the last few years by Milne and McCarthy, and the blind leading the blind.

Don't get me wrong, he injected considerable amounts into the club earlier in his tenure, and he is still funding the club each season: 2017, £2.9m; 2016, £250k; 2015, £230k; 2014, £3.8m, with the level of funding dependent on the extent of other revenues, most importantly net income from player transfers. However, the undisclosed sixth point of his 5 point plan, must read something like "put as little cash as possible into the club".

I suspect that part of the thinking behind the Hurst appointment and bringing in predominantly lower league players rather than experienced Championship players is the cost of wages etc. Our wage bill is already one of the lowest in the Championship, but it is probably even lower now. Also, from a business point of view, bringing in cheap "potential " is far more likely to return a profit on future transfers than established Championship players: think Cresswell, Mings and Webster v Leadbitter, Berra and Bullard.

I digress. Point is, don't be fooled by the statement that ME is putting in significant amounts. It really would not surprise me, if he has got the club near to break even, with the transfer dealings this Summer and the resulting lower wage bill, but that is speculation on my part.

Anyway, don't take my word for it. Take a look for yourself at ITFC's accounts, or the cashflow spreadsheet derived from them by SwissRamble:
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Evans puts in £6-8m a year? Err NO.... on 13:34 - Oct 11 with 1927 viewschicoazul

Here is something I have wondered in idle moments. If Evans is borrowing the money he uses to float us, would that have to be declared in the accounts?

Edited out by TWTD admin despite me having it for months without anyone crying about it
Poll: With Evans taking 65% in Huddersfield, is the Banter Era over?

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Evans puts in £6-8m a year? Err NO.... on 13:59 - Oct 11 with 1905 viewsFrankfurtBlue

Evans puts in £6-8m a year? Err NO.... on 12:31 - Oct 11 by jeera

Your actual reason for posting seems to be all about telling others they're wrong. You've also used one post in which Currie suggested losses and didn't actually use the wording that ME was covering every penny directly. You then used that one post for your sensational heading.

All you seem to have done is tell everyone [most] what they already know in a round about way.

You've cherry picked those years to support a point you have decided is relevant, whereas over the decade the figures banded about are nearer the mark already made.

We know he's trying to wind down his financial input. This isn't news.


My post is about telling people that they are wrong when they state that he is putting in £5m, £6m etc.in the present tense. He did years ago. He isn't now.

If people already know how much Evans is putting in, I have confirmed that for them, but some clearly do not know, and I don't see any problem in apprising them of it. Not quite sure what your problem with that is.
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Evans puts in £6-8m a year? Err NO.... on 14:02 - Oct 11 with 1897 viewsStokieBlue

Evans puts in £6-8m a year? Err NO.... on 13:34 - Oct 11 by chicoazul

Here is something I have wondered in idle moments. If Evans is borrowing the money he uses to float us, would that have to be declared in the accounts?


If he was borrowing under the ITFC banner then it would appear in the accounts. If he is borrowing personally and then lending the money he's spending even more on ITFC as he's not charging ITFC interest but it's a certainty his creditors would be charging him interest.

SB

In the pocket of big farmer.

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Evans puts in £6-8m a year? Err NO.... on 14:33 - Oct 11 with 1872 viewsSouperJim

Evans puts in £6-8m a year? Err NO.... on 13:59 - Oct 11 by FrankfurtBlue

My post is about telling people that they are wrong when they state that he is putting in £5m, £6m etc.in the present tense. He did years ago. He isn't now.

If people already know how much Evans is putting in, I have confirmed that for them, but some clearly do not know, and I don't see any problem in apprising them of it. Not quite sure what your problem with that is.


I agree that this is a myth that needs to be debunked, I regularly see people defend Evans by quoting that he puts £6m a year into the club. He may have put around £5m per year in as a mean average, but that doesn't have any real meaning if he was putting in much more in the beginning (which was wasted by the likes of Keane) and is now only putting in small change at a time when our spending is amongst the very lowest in the division and we are languishing at the wrong end of the table.

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Evans puts in £6-8m a year? Err NO.... on 15:39 - Oct 11 with 1836 viewsNuggets

Evans puts in £6-8m a year? Err NO.... on 13:59 - Oct 11 by FrankfurtBlue

My post is about telling people that they are wrong when they state that he is putting in £5m, £6m etc.in the present tense. He did years ago. He isn't now.

If people already know how much Evans is putting in, I have confirmed that for them, but some clearly do not know, and I don't see any problem in apprising them of it. Not quite sure what your problem with that is.


I commend you on your patience. What is so troubling about this to understand? The OP's post is correct and is backed up by the financial accounts and the analysis of an experienced financial analyst. Marcus Evans no longer puts '£6m a year into this club' and whoever uses that in a post or a debate are either honestly mistaken and misled or are outright lying. Evans has tried to make us self-sufficient, that's his reasoning for not putting in the same levels of investment as has had done before. As a club, our revenue is primarily reliant on player sales and gate revenue.

Blog: Disappointing Result, But Can Some of Us Drop the Sense of Entitlement?

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Evans puts in £6-8m a year? Err NO.... on 15:53 - Oct 11 with 1821 viewsitfcbam

And since football is now universally recognised as a business, no sane business person would be expected to keep pumping money into a loss making empire.
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Evans puts in £6-8m a year? Err NO.... on 17:32 - Oct 11 with 1776 viewssparks

Evans puts in £6-8m a year? Err NO.... on 15:39 - Oct 11 by Nuggets

I commend you on your patience. What is so troubling about this to understand? The OP's post is correct and is backed up by the financial accounts and the analysis of an experienced financial analyst. Marcus Evans no longer puts '£6m a year into this club' and whoever uses that in a post or a debate are either honestly mistaken and misled or are outright lying. Evans has tried to make us self-sufficient, that's his reasoning for not putting in the same levels of investment as has had done before. As a club, our revenue is primarily reliant on player sales and gate revenue.


The point is a simple one- ME HAS put the best part of £6m a year on average in. People recognise this has dropped off- its now averaging nearer 5. People do not claim £8m as per the OP.

Nothing in the OP is new or revelatory- save for the false premise he tries to set up that people are claiming £6-8m a year" and that that is ongoing. Which is not what people say.

The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it. (Sir Terry Pratchett)
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Evans puts in £6-8m a year? Err NO.... on 17:43 - Oct 11 with 1765 viewsNuggets

Evans puts in £6-8m a year? Err NO.... on 17:32 - Oct 11 by sparks

The point is a simple one- ME HAS put the best part of £6m a year on average in. People recognise this has dropped off- its now averaging nearer 5. People do not claim £8m as per the OP.

Nothing in the OP is new or revelatory- save for the false premise he tries to set up that people are claiming £6-8m a year" and that that is ongoing. Which is not what people say.


So people should qualify their statements with 'Evans puts in £6m a year on average' then? Because saying otherwise gives a misleading picture of a passionate owner still pumping millions into this club year in, year out, which he does not do. The truth, clearly outlined in the company accounts and the link to the financial analyst's article, is that Marcus Evans has significantly scaled back his spending in the last three to four years, and has added millions to our debt. You can argue he is trying to make the club self-sufficient, because he is, and that all the debt is owed to him and not third parties (which is beneficial for the short and long term), but Evans is not is this proactive benefactor investing millions into this club for our benefit that the old '£6m a year' quote would have you believe.

Also, part of this investment came from the several years where we sponsored his company, which has been blacklisted by UEFA, the IOC, and the Rugby Union federation, among others. It's alright now though, we're part of the saddening amount of football clubs that take gambling money for shirt sponsorship.

Blog: Disappointing Result, But Can Some of Us Drop the Sense of Entitlement?

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Evans puts in £6-8m a year? Err NO.... on 17:49 - Oct 11 with 1753 viewssparks

Evans puts in £6-8m a year? Err NO.... on 17:43 - Oct 11 by Nuggets

So people should qualify their statements with 'Evans puts in £6m a year on average' then? Because saying otherwise gives a misleading picture of a passionate owner still pumping millions into this club year in, year out, which he does not do. The truth, clearly outlined in the company accounts and the link to the financial analyst's article, is that Marcus Evans has significantly scaled back his spending in the last three to four years, and has added millions to our debt. You can argue he is trying to make the club self-sufficient, because he is, and that all the debt is owed to him and not third parties (which is beneficial for the short and long term), but Evans is not is this proactive benefactor investing millions into this club for our benefit that the old '£6m a year' quote would have you believe.

Also, part of this investment came from the several years where we sponsored his company, which has been blacklisted by UEFA, the IOC, and the Rugby Union federation, among others. It's alright now though, we're part of the saddening amount of football clubs that take gambling money for shirt sponsorship.


Water, as is pointed out above, remains wet.

The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it. (Sir Terry Pratchett)
Poll: Is Fred drunk this morning?

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Evans puts in £6-8m a year? Err NO.... on 18:12 - Oct 11 with 1725 viewschicoazul

Evans puts in £6-8m a year? Err NO.... on 14:02 - Oct 11 by StokieBlue

If he was borrowing under the ITFC banner then it would appear in the accounts. If he is borrowing personally and then lending the money he's spending even more on ITFC as he's not charging ITFC interest but it's a certainty his creditors would be charging him interest.

SB


Ahh ok. TYB.

Edited out by TWTD admin despite me having it for months without anyone crying about it
Poll: With Evans taking 65% in Huddersfield, is the Banter Era over?

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Evans puts in £6-8m a year? Err NO.... on 19:03 - Oct 11 with 1701 viewsPecker

That is still almost £3m a year more than most of us put in. Not sure what point you are trying to make.
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Evans puts in £6-8m a year? Err NO.... on 09:17 - Oct 12 with 1578 viewsFrankfurtBlue

Evans puts in £6-8m a year? Err NO.... on 17:32 - Oct 11 by sparks

The point is a simple one- ME HAS put the best part of £6m a year on average in. People recognise this has dropped off- its now averaging nearer 5. People do not claim £8m as per the OP.

Nothing in the OP is new or revelatory- save for the false premise he tries to set up that people are claiming £6-8m a year" and that that is ongoing. Which is not what people say.


I let your first unfair criticism of my OP go unanswered, but you insist on deliberately misinterpreting what I actually wrote, changing it to something more extreme and/or negative in order to call it wrong or disingenuous. Why?

You wrote, "People do not claim £8m as per the OP. "

I wrote, "Evans puts in £6-8m a year? Err NO...he doesn't". That sentence is perfectly factually correct, but add in the "people claim" and replace the £6-8m with just "£8m", and bingo, you have a sentence that you can call out as wrong!

You wrote, "Nothing in the OP is new or revelatory- save for the false premise he tries to set up that people are claiming £6-8m a year" and that that is ongoing. Which is not what people say."

I actually wrote "I read on here, and know fans, who really believe that he puts in £5m+ each and every season. That is a myth, prepetuated over the last few years by Milne and McCarthy, and the blind leading the blind." Again, 100% factually correct, and the only place where I actually stated anything about what people might claim. You might notice there was no mention of £6-8m, only £5m+. Did you not manage to read that? Only, you conveniently forgot to include the £5m figure in your criticism.

Also, I think for some people it was new and revelatory. I guarantee there are still people that (want to) believe that ME is putting in £5m a year. He simply isn't.

I now regret having wasted my time replying to you. Ho hum.
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Evans puts in £6-8m a year? Err NO.... on 10:42 - Oct 12 with 1543 viewsartsbossbeard

Evans puts in £6-8m a year? Err NO.... on 09:17 - Oct 12 by FrankfurtBlue

I let your first unfair criticism of my OP go unanswered, but you insist on deliberately misinterpreting what I actually wrote, changing it to something more extreme and/or negative in order to call it wrong or disingenuous. Why?

You wrote, "People do not claim £8m as per the OP. "

I wrote, "Evans puts in £6-8m a year? Err NO...he doesn't". That sentence is perfectly factually correct, but add in the "people claim" and replace the £6-8m with just "£8m", and bingo, you have a sentence that you can call out as wrong!

You wrote, "Nothing in the OP is new or revelatory- save for the false premise he tries to set up that people are claiming £6-8m a year" and that that is ongoing. Which is not what people say."

I actually wrote "I read on here, and know fans, who really believe that he puts in £5m+ each and every season. That is a myth, prepetuated over the last few years by Milne and McCarthy, and the blind leading the blind." Again, 100% factually correct, and the only place where I actually stated anything about what people might claim. You might notice there was no mention of £6-8m, only £5m+. Did you not manage to read that? Only, you conveniently forgot to include the £5m figure in your criticism.

Also, I think for some people it was new and revelatory. I guarantee there are still people that (want to) believe that ME is putting in £5m a year. He simply isn't.

I now regret having wasted my time replying to you. Ho hum.


ME is happy to sell the club if you and a like minded consortium would be interested in taking over?

I hate to be the bearer of bad news here but contrary to popular opinion, there actually isn't a queue of Saudi's or Russian Oligarchs outside ME's office in a bidding war like something out of Wall Street currently.

Before you and your consortium take over and provide gazillions pounds worth of funds to the club, I'd like to place on record my thanks to ME for saving the club in it's darkest hour where a return to administration would've been coupled with a 10 point deduction, relegation and games against Fleetwood & Morecombe.

Cheers ME, your financial input is greatly appreciated.

Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing.
Poll: Raining in IP8 - shall I get the washing in?

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Evans puts in £6-8m a year? Err NO.... on 11:08 - Oct 12 with 1519 viewsNuggets

Evans puts in £6-8m a year? Err NO.... on 10:42 - Oct 12 by artsbossbeard

ME is happy to sell the club if you and a like minded consortium would be interested in taking over?

I hate to be the bearer of bad news here but contrary to popular opinion, there actually isn't a queue of Saudi's or Russian Oligarchs outside ME's office in a bidding war like something out of Wall Street currently.

Before you and your consortium take over and provide gazillions pounds worth of funds to the club, I'd like to place on record my thanks to ME for saving the club in it's darkest hour where a return to administration would've been coupled with a 10 point deduction, relegation and games against Fleetwood & Morecombe.

Cheers ME, your financial input is greatly appreciated.


What has that got to do with the argument the OP is making? He has quite clearly and methodically proven that the owner is not investing £6m a year into the club, which some forelock tuggers on here (seemingly unable to countenance criticism of the owner) repeatedly parrot. Your argument to that is effectively 'well you buy the club then'. So next time you make a valid point and criticise the management, tactics, or starting eleven in our games, should I resort to 'well you manage the club then?' It's a completely redundant argument, and I think you know it.

I believe almost all Ipswich fans are grateful for the initial investment from Evans and the fact that he bought the club when it was at one of its lowest points. What is unavoidable is the harsh reality that we have further stagnated under Evans' ownership, and his record of failed managerial appointments and declining investment has been detrimental to the club's fortunes over the last several years. The man has a standing arrest warrant in Brazil, he is a tax avoider, and his business has been blacklisted by several sporting governing bodies. This is not conjecture, it is proven fact through research. Some people need to take Mr Evans off the pedestal they currently place him, and take a long, hard look at the man and his record both here and at his wider businesses. The answer is not flattering and does not warrant these repeated lies, misunderstandings, and justifications that attempt to make him appear both better and more involved in this club than what he is.

Blog: Disappointing Result, But Can Some of Us Drop the Sense of Entitlement?

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Evans puts in £6-8m a year? Err NO.... on 11:14 - Oct 12 with 1510 viewsartsbossbeard

Evans puts in £6-8m a year? Err NO.... on 11:08 - Oct 12 by Nuggets

What has that got to do with the argument the OP is making? He has quite clearly and methodically proven that the owner is not investing £6m a year into the club, which some forelock tuggers on here (seemingly unable to countenance criticism of the owner) repeatedly parrot. Your argument to that is effectively 'well you buy the club then'. So next time you make a valid point and criticise the management, tactics, or starting eleven in our games, should I resort to 'well you manage the club then?' It's a completely redundant argument, and I think you know it.

I believe almost all Ipswich fans are grateful for the initial investment from Evans and the fact that he bought the club when it was at one of its lowest points. What is unavoidable is the harsh reality that we have further stagnated under Evans' ownership, and his record of failed managerial appointments and declining investment has been detrimental to the club's fortunes over the last several years. The man has a standing arrest warrant in Brazil, he is a tax avoider, and his business has been blacklisted by several sporting governing bodies. This is not conjecture, it is proven fact through research. Some people need to take Mr Evans off the pedestal they currently place him, and take a long, hard look at the man and his record both here and at his wider businesses. The answer is not flattering and does not warrant these repeated lies, misunderstandings, and justifications that attempt to make him appear both better and more involved in this club than what he is.


Oh, apologies, I thought the OP was offering a solution to the "issue" rather than whining like a bitch.

My bad.

Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing.
Poll: Raining in IP8 - shall I get the washing in?

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Evans puts in £6-8m a year? Err NO.... on 11:28 - Oct 12 with 1496 viewsNuggets

Evans puts in £6-8m a year? Err NO.... on 11:14 - Oct 12 by artsbossbeard

Oh, apologies, I thought the OP was offering a solution to the "issue" rather than whining like a bitch.

My bad.


My interpretation was that the OP was rightly calling out one of the major misunderstandings / lies that gets thrown about whenever Marcus Evans is mentioned. The OP did this with facts and by referring to the club's own accounts. The uncomfortable truth, for some, is that Marcus Evans does not put £6m a year, every year, into this club and that he has actually been steadily reducing his investment.

An effective retort to the OP's argument could be that 'Evans is attempting to make this club self-sustainable and one that lives within its means', which is very sensible and noble goal. However, in this current Championship environment, where more ambitious owners will invest what they legally can to gain an advantage in a competitive division, Evans' approach could be viewed as naive and counterproductive. I'm not advocating a return to the several million quid a window splurge of the Keane years, because it would add millions more to the debt and I don't trust Hurst with that type of money. However, wouldn't it be nice to see a transfer window where we actually spend slightly more money than what we bring in through outgoings? That hasn't happened for several years and I think is a strong explanation for our decline from upper mid-table places to what we've put up with over the past three seasons.

Blog: Disappointing Result, But Can Some of Us Drop the Sense of Entitlement?

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Evans puts in £6-8m a year? Err NO.... on 12:32 - Oct 12 with 1453 viewsFrankfurtBlue

Evans puts in £6-8m a year? Err NO.... on 10:42 - Oct 12 by artsbossbeard

ME is happy to sell the club if you and a like minded consortium would be interested in taking over?

I hate to be the bearer of bad news here but contrary to popular opinion, there actually isn't a queue of Saudi's or Russian Oligarchs outside ME's office in a bidding war like something out of Wall Street currently.

Before you and your consortium take over and provide gazillions pounds worth of funds to the club, I'd like to place on record my thanks to ME for saving the club in it's darkest hour where a return to administration would've been coupled with a 10 point deduction, relegation and games against Fleetwood & Morecombe.

Cheers ME, your financial input is greatly appreciated.


Please see my previous comment regarding deliberately misinterpreting the statements of others to serve your own counter-argument.

There are many criticisms that one could level at ME, but he has put more money into the club than any other person in the club's history. I repeat, it is his club and his money , and he can do what he chooses with both.

However, does he still inject £5m+ each season? Does he? NO! So am I correct in pointing out to people how much (note, I write how much, and not "how little") money he has put in in recent seasons in order to illustrate that they are wrong when they state that he finances ITFC to the tune of £5m each season?

My obejective was to merely inform people in the hope that a common lie about the funding of the club we all love is not further perpetuated. Sorry, if you don't like that.
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