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If you think the potential landslide is down to Brexit on 00:27 - Dec 13 by monytowbray
I said a few weeks back I felt Labour would have been better to stick to the 2017 manifesto.
I like the notion of publicly owned services. I have always strongly felt that the bedrock of society should incorporate access to basic needs no matter what level of income, no matter what station of perceived status.
There should be no shareholders involved when it comes to someone cooking dinner or heating their home; or say, the need to travel to work or receive healthcare.
These should be decent, normal things that you'd think most people would agree on.
The personality that tried to bring that to the table was one issue, but I still see all the time this unpleasant attitude of resentfulness. Those who feel they may be subsidising someone else because they haven't somehow tried hard enough themselves.
That's something that will never go away so there has to be something on offer for those types too.
If I knew how that could addressed, I would be a better man myself.
If you think the potential landslide is down to Brexit on 00:38 - Dec 13 by jeera
I like the notion of publicly owned services. I have always strongly felt that the bedrock of society should incorporate access to basic needs no matter what level of income, no matter what station of perceived status.
There should be no shareholders involved when it comes to someone cooking dinner or heating their home; or say, the need to travel to work or receive healthcare.
These should be decent, normal things that you'd think most people would agree on.
The personality that tried to bring that to the table was one issue, but I still see all the time this unpleasant attitude of resentfulness. Those who feel they may be subsidising someone else because they haven't somehow tried hard enough themselves.
That's something that will never go away so there has to be something on offer for those types too.
If I knew how that could addressed, I would be a better man myself.
We’ve become a nation that is bitter at those who have less than others that may have had a small handout. It’s been that way for a while. My response has always been “If not working looks like a cushty life go do it, you can quit your job” and they never seem that keen. Funny that.
If you think the potential landslide is down to Brexit on 00:38 - Dec 13 by jeera
I like the notion of publicly owned services. I have always strongly felt that the bedrock of society should incorporate access to basic needs no matter what level of income, no matter what station of perceived status.
There should be no shareholders involved when it comes to someone cooking dinner or heating their home; or say, the need to travel to work or receive healthcare.
These should be decent, normal things that you'd think most people would agree on.
The personality that tried to bring that to the table was one issue, but I still see all the time this unpleasant attitude of resentfulness. Those who feel they may be subsidising someone else because they haven't somehow tried hard enough themselves.
That's something that will never go away so there has to be something on offer for those types too.
If I knew how that could addressed, I would be a better man myself.
I would like a government owned transport system and possibly government owned energy.
Not sure how old you are Jeera but I remember pretty much the whole country shouting with joy when all the state owned services were sold off.
Most governments get voted out because of collapsed finances and like it or not Labour always end up skinting the country
So what happens to these services when the government runs out of money?
“Hello, I'm your MP. Actually I'm not. I'm your candidate. Gosh.”
Boris Johnson canvassing in Henley, 2005.
If you think the potential landslide is down to Brexit on 00:50 - Dec 13 by Lord_Lucan
I would like a government owned transport system and possibly government owned energy.
Not sure how old you are Jeera but I remember pretty much the whole country shouting with joy when all the state owned services were sold off.
Most governments get voted out because of collapsed finances and like it or not Labour always end up skinting the country
So what happens to these services when the government runs out of money?
I understand part what you and others say when it comes to this, but we do tend to look backwards on this assuming the same mistakes will be made.
I'm not saying it's an altogether unreasonable fear, but at the same time we live in different times. Dare I say, with the experience of these services having been run privately, modern technology at hand, people better educated than ever before; it shouldn't be beyond expectations to be able to run the basics without too much fuss!
Full cost accounting yes, with no drain on the public purse. I am a firm believer there is no such thing as free, but these things should be cost-effective all round.
If you think the potential landslide is down to Brexit on 00:58 - Dec 13 by jeera
I understand part what you and others say when it comes to this, but we do tend to look backwards on this assuming the same mistakes will be made.
I'm not saying it's an altogether unreasonable fear, but at the same time we live in different times. Dare I say, with the experience of these services having been run privately, modern technology at hand, people better educated than ever before; it shouldn't be beyond expectations to be able to run the basics without too much fuss!
Full cost accounting yes, with no drain on the public purse. I am a firm believer there is no such thing as free, but these things should be cost-effective all round.
How hard can it be?
[Post edited 13 Dec 2019 0:59]
As I said, I would welcome a nationalisation of public transport but if you don't learn by history it repeats itself - or something like that.
So you ask "How hard can it be", well history suggests it is hard so what can you do about it?
I suppose you can pledge that public transport is the be all and end all and that there will be a guaranteed minimum funding to it but you know what happens when there is no money, things get chopped and promises get broken.
I'd like to give it a go but I would hold my breath - meanwhile we are spunking untold billions on a high speed rail service that is completely unnecessary, we're only a small country for Christs sake and you can get from top to bottom pretty quick as it stands, imagine all that money being put into regional services!
“Hello, I'm your MP. Actually I'm not. I'm your candidate. Gosh.”
Boris Johnson canvassing in Henley, 2005.
If you think the potential landslide is down to Brexit on 01:35 - Dec 13 by Lord_Lucan
As I said, I would welcome a nationalisation of public transport but if you don't learn by history it repeats itself - or something like that.
So you ask "How hard can it be", well history suggests it is hard so what can you do about it?
I suppose you can pledge that public transport is the be all and end all and that there will be a guaranteed minimum funding to it but you know what happens when there is no money, things get chopped and promises get broken.
I'd like to give it a go but I would hold my breath - meanwhile we are spunking untold billions on a high speed rail service that is completely unnecessary, we're only a small country for Christs sake and you can get from top to bottom pretty quick as it stands, imagine all that money being put into regional services!
Well then surely, by your last paragraph, we're on the same page.
If there's an absurd amount of cash available for that vanity project, then there's the funding right there to be better placed to enhance more lives than the few who could/would use the HS2.
If you think the potential landslide is down to Brexit on 01:39 - Dec 13 by jeera
Well then surely, by your last paragraph, we're on the same page.
If there's an absurd amount of cash available for that vanity project, then there's the funding right there to be better placed to enhance more lives than the few who could/would use the HS2.
But we're talking different bananas here. HS2 if it happens will cost minimum of £100b if you're realistic about it but that isn't all government money anyway so the answers a lemon.
And £100b sounds a lot, I'm not a high financier but I would imagine it's not a lot when running the whole national rail network.
So we agree that HS2 is ridiculous but it's not all government money and it's arguably not a lot of money anyway in the scheme of things (I'm repeating myself aren't I - I'm on the red)
I suppose at the end of the day I'm
[Post edited 13 Dec 2019 1:51]
“Hello, I'm your MP. Actually I'm not. I'm your candidate. Gosh.”
Boris Johnson canvassing in Henley, 2005.
If you think the potential landslide is down to Brexit on 01:50 - Dec 13 by Lord_Lucan
But we're talking different bananas here. HS2 if it happens will cost minimum of £100b if you're realistic about it but that isn't all government money anyway so the answers a lemon.
And £100b sounds a lot, I'm not a high financier but I would imagine it's not a lot when running the whole national rail network.
So we agree that HS2 is ridiculous but it's not all government money and it's arguably not a lot of money anyway in the scheme of things (I'm repeating myself aren't I - I'm on the red)
I suppose at the end of the day I'm
[Post edited 13 Dec 2019 1:51]
But as I keep saying, and I am determined to make this point.
I don't want to see public money poured into any services directly.
Things need to be paid for but with any 'profits' going back into the services instead of private accounts.
There is no reason that services cannot be run in similar vein to private firms.
If you think the potential landslide is down to Brexit on 01:54 - Dec 13 by jeera
But as I keep saying, and I am determined to make this point.
I don't want to see public money poured into any services directly.
Things need to be paid for but with any 'profits' going back into the services instead of private accounts.
There is no reason that services cannot be run in similar vein to private firms.
Full cost accounting as I say.
But you are assuming that the nationalised rail service will run at a profit. If you are going to slash prices and increase the amount of guards and buy cutting edge rolling stock it will cost a lot of money. When you hear about x£b profit on this and that rail service and all the money going to the shareholders you have to think a bit, that money sounds big but in percentage terms to cost of running the service it's not a lot.
It's not that easy.
“Hello, I'm your MP. Actually I'm not. I'm your candidate. Gosh.”
Boris Johnson canvassing in Henley, 2005.
If you think the potential landslide is down to Brexit on 02:15 - Dec 13 by Lord_Lucan
But you are assuming that the nationalised rail service will run at a profit. If you are going to slash prices and increase the amount of guards and buy cutting edge rolling stock it will cost a lot of money. When you hear about x£b profit on this and that rail service and all the money going to the shareholders you have to think a bit, that money sounds big but in percentage terms to cost of running the service it's not a lot.
It's not that easy.
But it cannot cost more than it already does. Unless we assume that we would literally hark back to days of full-on strikes, then poor services, en masse complaints...and then losing money hand over fist.
Run as they already are, there is no reason for them to become a money pit.
Profit is profit. If it isn't leaking out then it has to be injected back in.
I promise I am not suggesting the slashing of prices. In fact I would go as far to suggest a price freeze for maybe 5 years to see if price cuts are then possible wouldn't be a bad place to start.
If you think the potential landslide is down to Brexit on 02:22 - Dec 13 by jeera
But it cannot cost more than it already does. Unless we assume that we would literally hark back to days of full-on strikes, then poor services, en masse complaints...and then losing money hand over fist.
Run as they already are, there is no reason for them to become a money pit.
Profit is profit. If it isn't leaking out then it has to be injected back in.
I promise I am not suggesting the slashing of prices. In fact I would go as far to suggest a price freeze for maybe 5 years to see if price cuts are then possible wouldn't be a bad place to start.
You may not be suggesting slashing the prices but Jeremy was, and I thought that was what we were talking about, the Labour ideal.
Anyway, I'm tired.
“Hello, I'm your MP. Actually I'm not. I'm your candidate. Gosh.”
Boris Johnson canvassing in Henley, 2005.
If you think the potential landslide is down to Brexit on 02:41 - Dec 13 by Lord_Lucan
You may not be suggesting slashing the prices but Jeremy was, and I thought that was what we were talking about, the Labour ideal.
Anyway, I'm tired.
I'm talking about me. I'm more important. Me, me.
I knew what you meant but went off on a tangent of my own ideals.
I am reading Gorbachev at the moment, and although it is hard work - not highbrow, just hideously dull; I can only cope with a couple of pages per day- it is interesting to see the parallels. He was right in his aspirations, there was not much to argue with and his intentions were thoroughly decent.
The problem of course, is that was surrounded by humans, and humans don't always wanna play ball unless there's more in it for them.
If you think the potential landslide is down to Brexit on 02:46 - Dec 13 by jeera
I'm talking about me. I'm more important. Me, me.
I knew what you meant but went off on a tangent of my own ideals.
I am reading Gorbachev at the moment, and although it is hard work - not highbrow, just hideously dull; I can only cope with a couple of pages per day- it is interesting to see the parallels. He was right in his aspirations, there was not much to argue with and his intentions were thoroughly decent.
The problem of course, is that was surrounded by humans, and humans don't always wanna play ball unless there's more in it for them.
Like it or lump it but Gorby, Reagan and Thatcher got rid of the wall
Roger Waters and The Hoff had a say as well.
“Hello, I'm your MP. Actually I'm not. I'm your candidate. Gosh.”
Boris Johnson canvassing in Henley, 2005.
Good god! The Labour MP for Stoke has completely flipped out live on air when interviewed about the upcoming result on sky news - ‘I’ve definitely lost’ she said at the start.
Said JC should resign immediately, is a racist, is anti-Semitic, has broken the Labour Party completely and effectively has single-handedly ruined the country by making Labour impossible to vote for. Jeez!
If you think the potential landslide is down to Brexit on 02:54 - Dec 13 by The_Romford_Blue
Good god! The Labour MP for Stoke has completely flipped out live on air when interviewed about the upcoming result on sky news - ‘I’ve definitely lost’ she said at the start.
Said JC should resign immediately, is a racist, is anti-Semitic, has broken the Labour Party completely and effectively has single-handedly ruined the country by making Labour impossible to vote for. Jeez!
Sounds spot on.
The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett)
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