| Our fan base 12:11 - Aug 18 with 8002 views | BelsteadCav |
I honestly think it’s now one of the worst in the country
I couldn’t believe some of the comments on Twitter last night, worse than hurst, cook out, it’s time to go!
It’s just embarrassing. Saturday will be a horrible atmosphere, I just know it.
We used to have one of the best fan bases around, but we are a shadow of our former selves. If we go behind on Saturday, God help us |  |
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| Our fan base on 17:24 - Aug 18 with 1114 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Our fan base on 17:14 - Aug 18 by itfcjoe |
“ Some of the greatest managers in the game had very slow starts at their clubs.”
This just isn’t the case. No great managers, who went on to have great careers at their good jobs started so badly - they all built up credit in the bank.
I wouldn’t put Cook near to the category yet, of having had a poor start as is still very early days. But if it gets to January/February time, and we aren’t close to looking like we will achieve objectives then a year into the job if the manager has got nowhere then they just aren’t going to. |
We are in league one. How many league one managers have been gone on to be the greatest managers in the game?
If this is what you are arguing, then well done for making a pointless point.
Unless you are thinking of the good old pre-premiership days when someone like Sir Alf could be given the time and patience to establish himself and go on to be great.
By league one standards, getting Sheffield Utd promoted back to back into the premiership is a great achievement. Not sure what you are really expecting beyond that. [Post edited 18 Aug 2021 17:25]
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| Our fan base on 17:26 - Aug 18 with 1104 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Our fan base on 17:23 - Aug 18 by jayessess |
Chris Wilder wasn't in charge of that 2015-16 season, Nigel Adkins was. |
I know... | |
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| Our fan base on 17:31 - Aug 18 with 1081 views | DanTheMan |
We clapped our team off after getting relegated.
Honestly, we put up with way more than we should have. The acceptance of mediocrity is staggering. |  |
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| Our fan base on 17:35 - Aug 18 with 1068 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Our fan base on 17:31 - Aug 18 by DanTheMan |
We clapped our team off after getting relegated.
Honestly, we put up with way more than we should have. The acceptance of mediocrity is staggering. |
And when we get rid of those players two years latter, after two mid-table finishes, we get people crying about how they were treated by PC. [Post edited 18 Aug 2021 17:35]
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| Our fan base on 17:36 - Aug 18 with 1057 views | noggin |
| Our fan base on 17:35 - Aug 18 by Kropotkin123 |
And when we get rid of those players two years latter, after two mid-table finishes, we get people crying about how they were treated by PC. [Post edited 18 Aug 2021 17:35]
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It was the best squad in the league, to be fair. (Rolls eyes) |  |
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| Our fan base on 17:38 - Aug 18 with 1052 views | DanTheMan |
| Our fan base on 17:35 - Aug 18 by Kropotkin123 |
And when we get rid of those players two years latter, after two mid-table finishes, we get people crying about how they were treated by PC. [Post edited 18 Aug 2021 17:35]
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Do you mean the players?
Even so, this entire post is about how the fans are rubbish for not supporting the team when it's the opposite. We've put up with season after season of garbage and then some people are surprised when others have had enough.
I don't think we should be calling for Cook's head yet at all, however it doesn't seem unreasonable for people to be critical of his results here so far, as they have been poor.
We even had people last night moaning about others flouncing when all anyone was doing was talking about a poor game.
It just seems silly to me that people can't take people not having a 100% positive view all the time. | |
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| Our fan base on 17:39 - Aug 18 with 1042 views | Chrisd |
| Our fan base on 17:24 - Aug 18 by itfcjoe |
Of course he has to get credit in the bank at the club he is CURRENTLY MANAGING, to show the fans of that club what he can do.
If we are 13th in January no Ipswich fan is going to give a toss that he did a good job at Wigan 3 years before |
Hang on a minute you were referring to Alex Ferguson and his ‘credit in the bank’ based on what he achieved at Aberdeen as United manager? Just seems the goalposts keep getting moved. In Cook, we are talking about a manager that is 20 odd games into his Town managerial career, so his credit in the bank - as you keep referring to - is very much on what he has achieved in his previous managerial posts. If he gets to January I’ll be amazed, seems like some are already on a witch hunt to get him out. |  |
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| Our fan base on 17:41 - Aug 18 with 1028 views | itfcjoe |
| Our fan base on 17:39 - Aug 18 by Chrisd |
Hang on a minute you were referring to Alex Ferguson and his ‘credit in the bank’ based on what he achieved at Aberdeen as United manager? Just seems the goalposts keep getting moved. In Cook, we are talking about a manager that is 20 odd games into his Town managerial career, so his credit in the bank - as you keep referring to - is very much on what he has achieved in his previous managerial posts. If he gets to January I’ll be amazed, seems like some are already on a witch hunt to get him out. |
This shouldn’t be this hard for you to understand.
Good CV - gets you a job, maybe gives you a bit more credit in the bank
Then you need to actually perform in your current job to get credit in bank with the fanbase of the club you manage.
What you do at your current club becomes exponentially more important than what you did at your previous job |  |
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| Our fan base on 17:45 - Aug 18 with 1008 views | mattyhollandsirish |
This is nonsence. Our fan base is no worse and indeed I'd argue far more patient and accomadating than the vast majority of clubs of a similar size. Thats not changed in recent times when actually at a game.
Get off Twitter if you don't like negativity as that's essentially all that is on there, where you'll find fans of every single club moaning, including many Prem clubs with far less to grumble at.
We've a great fan base. Embrace it, be proud of it. | | | |
| Our fan base on 17:47 - Aug 18 with 1002 views | _sanctimoanious_ |
| Our fan base on 17:41 - Aug 18 by itfcjoe |
This shouldn’t be this hard for you to understand.
Good CV - gets you a job, maybe gives you a bit more credit in the bank
Then you need to actually perform in your current job to get credit in bank with the fanbase of the club you manage.
What you do at your current club becomes exponentially more important than what you did at your previous job |
Agreed. Thankfully we appear to have owners and manager who are firmly on the same page in terms of what the club needed - a total clear out. The owners have a plan in place and will strive to succeed with their man in charge. Let’s get behind that. |  | | |
| Our fan base on 17:50 - Aug 18 with 1000 views | jayessess |
Right, so I'm not sure what the relevance is?
The contention at the beginning of this argument was that in most good managerial stints the manager "achieved something quite quickly". Chris Wilder had Sheffield United in the play-off places after 8 games, in the promotion places after 17. That fits any reasonable definition of quickly, surely? |  |
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| Our fan base on 17:53 - Aug 18 with 981 views | Chrisd |
| Our fan base on 17:41 - Aug 18 by itfcjoe |
This shouldn’t be this hard for you to understand.
Good CV - gets you a job, maybe gives you a bit more credit in the bank
Then you need to actually perform in your current job to get credit in bank with the fanbase of the club you manage.
What you do at your current club becomes exponentially more important than what you did at your previous job |
Not when you’ve made wholesale changes to the squad and coaching staff, while trying to change the club’s culture and getting rid of 20+ players that have failed to deliver under 3 previous managers over the last few seasons. The situation is a unique one, you’re treating it as the norm. The simple fact is it isn’t and that’s where the problem lies. Hence, the credit in the bank is what PC has done in his previous roles because we have to trust him to get it right like he has done with great success in his previous managerial posts. [Post edited 18 Aug 2021 17:56]
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| Our fan base on 17:54 - Aug 18 with 978 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Our fan base on 17:50 - Aug 18 by jayessess |
Right, so I'm not sure what the relevance is?
The contention at the beginning of this argument was that in most good managerial stints the manager "achieved something quite quickly". Chris Wilder had Sheffield United in the play-off places after 8 games, in the promotion places after 17. That fits any reasonable definition of quickly, surely? |
He had the summer to work with the team and started poorly (1 point from 12). The point would be, let's see where Cook is after a summer and 8 or 17 games.
Or the Blackpool example...
https://www.soccerstats.com/team.asp?league=england3_2021&stats=16-blackpool
Feel free to work out when they made it into the play-offs, with a new manager and new players. [Post edited 18 Aug 2021 17:57]
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| Our fan base on 17:56 - Aug 18 with 972 views | _sanctimoanious_ |
| Our fan base on 17:53 - Aug 18 by Chrisd |
Not when you’ve made wholesale changes to the squad and coaching staff, while trying to change the club’s culture and getting rid of 20+ players that have failed to deliver under 3 previous managers over the last few seasons. The situation is a unique one, you’re treating it as the norm. The simple fact is it isn’t and that’s where the problem lies. Hence, the credit in the bank is what PC has done in his previous roles because we have to trust him to get it right like he has done with great success in his previous managerial posts. [Post edited 18 Aug 2021 17:56]
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Fair points. Also, expectations at different clubs - Rodgers scraping 8th at Liverpool is not particularly a success. | | | |
| Our fan base on 18:00 - Aug 18 with 949 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Wilder picked up 11 wins from his first 19 league games in charge. Cook has picked up 4
Burley was actually a good example although think itfcjoe is right to point out that circumstances there meant that expectations were much lower, plus he did start his first full season with 3 wins and a draw in the first 5 games. I don’t think the general point being made is wrong - it certainly is unusual for a manager to start as badly as Cook has and turn it around, but that’s not to say Cook won’t prove an exception - and certainly hope he does |  |
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| Our fan base on 18:01 - Aug 18 with 954 views | J2BLUE |
I think we have the same number of bellends but the amount of platforms has grown. We now have so many who think they are some sort of celebrity fan. In the days where any idiot can have a podcast (apologies Phil, Joe etc who put out decent content) then it's just a never ending race to the bottom. Who can be the most hysterical? Who can shout the loudest?
It's tiring. |  |
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| Our fan base on 18:02 - Aug 18 with 942 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Our fan base on 17:56 - Aug 18 by _sanctimoanious_ |
Fair points. Also, expectations at different clubs - Rodgers scraping 8th at Liverpool is not particularly a success. |
Brendan Rodgers never finished 8th at Liverpool | |
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| Our fan base on 18:03 - Aug 18 with 944 views | jayessess |
(a) Good seasons sometimes start badly
(b) We can't properly judge Cook off 4 games
(c) Successful managerial reigns barely ever begin with extended periods of bad results
You can believe all 3 things (can't speak for Joe, but I certainly do). (c) is the one we're arguing about. | |
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| Our fan base on 18:04 - Aug 18 with 940 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Our fan base on 18:00 - Aug 18 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Wilder picked up 11 wins from his first 19 league games in charge. Cook has picked up 4
Burley was actually a good example although think itfcjoe is right to point out that circumstances there meant that expectations were much lower, plus he did start his first full season with 3 wins and a draw in the first 5 games. I don’t think the general point being made is wrong - it certainly is unusual for a manager to start as badly as Cook has and turn it around, but that’s not to say Cook won’t prove an exception - and certainly hope he does |
Wilder had a summer to pick a squad and work with them. PC had to taint his record with a bunch of losers who relegated the club and led us to two mid-table finishes in league one.
Edit: Just because sections of the fan base had high expectations taking over, doesn't mean they were correct. Chambers was top 3 for games played last season. Arguably POTS. Ends up in League two along with half the squad.
There was clearly a misalignment between expectations and reality when Cook took over. [Post edited 18 Aug 2021 18:14]
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| Our fan base on 18:07 - Aug 18 with 940 views | istanblue |
You're right. This is a fanbase that clapped relegation, gave Lambert a free pass in 18/19, gave Cook a free pass in 20/21, swallowed the vast majority of the lies and PR stunts of the Evans regime and ultimately have played a part in the lowering of standards. |  | | |
| Our fan base on 18:26 - Aug 18 with 888 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Our fan base on 18:03 - Aug 18 by jayessess |
(a) Good seasons sometimes start badly
(b) We can't properly judge Cook off 4 games
(c) Successful managerial reigns barely ever begin with extended periods of bad results
You can believe all 3 things (can't speak for Joe, but I certainly do). (c) is the one we're arguing about. |
(b) three league games and one largely youth team game.
(c) Already gave the Burley example, but this doesn't count because people want to make up new clauses, because it doesn't fit the point they are failing to make.
Expectations or not, his first season was a disaster. 9-0 loss to Man Utd is the biggest Premier League loss to date. We didn't score for a club record amount of time. | |
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| Our fan base on 19:26 - Aug 18 with 839 views | pointofblue |
| Our fan base on 18:04 - Aug 18 by Kropotkin123 |
Wilder had a summer to pick a squad and work with them. PC had to taint his record with a bunch of losers who relegated the club and led us to two mid-table finishes in league one.
Edit: Just because sections of the fan base had high expectations taking over, doesn't mean they were correct. Chambers was top 3 for games played last season. Arguably POTS. Ends up in League two along with half the squad.
There was clearly a misalignment between expectations and reality when Cook took over. [Post edited 18 Aug 2021 18:14]
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The same players that got us within one point of the play offs with a favourable run to the end of the season when Cook took over, having picked up 10 points from the previous 12. For all the impact he had we may as well have kept Gill.
He has a great history with other clubs but has done nothing with us except oversee a mass clearout just to get the same or worse results. Due to the quality of player we've bought in we should turn it around, and Cook's experience and success within the Football League speaks volumes, but somehow he gets off scott free for the utter debacle the end of last season became which rings alarm bells because so did Lambert after 18/19. | |
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| Our fan base on 19:49 - Aug 18 with 814 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Our fan base on 19:26 - Aug 18 by pointofblue |
The same players that got us within one point of the play offs with a favourable run to the end of the season when Cook took over, having picked up 10 points from the previous 12. For all the impact he had we may as well have kept Gill.
He has a great history with other clubs but has done nothing with us except oversee a mass clearout just to get the same or worse results. Due to the quality of player we've bought in we should turn it around, and Cook's experience and success within the Football League speaks volumes, but somehow he gets off scott free for the utter debacle the end of last season became which rings alarm bells because so did Lambert after 18/19. |
Favourable run? We stitched today 3 results in unconvincing fashion, after losing 8 of our previous 15 games in another implosion.
The two seasons were built on fortunate starts. If it was in isolation, then it would be understandable, but it wasn't. It was two seasons running after relegation.
The spin on those three results are just as silly as me pretending the end of the season was great, by pointing out that Cook only lost 2 of his last 11 games and got 6 clean sheets, flogging a dead horse. | |
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| Our fan base on 19:57 - Aug 18 with 801 views | pointofblue |
| Our fan base on 19:49 - Aug 18 by Kropotkin123 |
Favourable run? We stitched today 3 results in unconvincing fashion, after losing 8 of our previous 15 games in another implosion.
The two seasons were built on fortunate starts. If it was in isolation, then it would be understandable, but it wasn't. It was two seasons running after relegation.
The spin on those three results are just as silly as me pretending the end of the season was great, by pointing out that Cook only lost 2 of his last 11 games and got 6 clean sheets, flogging a dead horse. |
I'd say Oxford, Hull and, for large parts, Doncaster were three of our best performances of the season which admittedly isn't saying much. We were very fortunate against Accrington and maybe that was the warning sign that another dip was coming.
But Cook failed to do anything to pull us out of the dip and surely we hired him with the thought that he would be able to do so? Otherwise why not just keep hold of Gill until the end of the season. I know I'm one of a small, possibly single figure, number who believes Cook should shoulder some responsibility for what happened.
He's got his way, we've had a complete turnover of the squad minus a handful. It's early days and we've got plenty of time but four wins in 19 hardly instils confidence. Fingers crossed for a couple of home wins though neither will be easy; that's how far we've fallen. | |
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| Our fan base on 20:11 - Aug 18 with 781 views | Reuser_is_God |
Some of our fans have less backbone than the team has shown in recent years, which is some going. |  |
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