| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks 07:54 - Oct 21 with 4715 views | fab_lover |
One day, people should go to jail for this; but they won't.
Does anyone want to stick their head above the parapet and defend this ?
Does anyone think that Labour would have handled the Covid crisis any worse ?
Does anyone still feel inclined to vote Tory in the next election ?
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| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 10:51 - Oct 21 with 1544 views | Darth_Koont |
| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 10:42 - Oct 21 by Herbivore |
It's possible to not be surprised but to also be rather depressed and quite angry about it. That the Tories and their mates line each other's pockets is a given, that doesn't mean we have to feel it's acceptable. |
Agreed. But that should also disturb us when we see the Labour right/Change UK breed that equally seem most interested in getting paid. |  |
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| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 11:23 - Oct 21 with 1493 views | Herbivore |
| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 10:51 - Oct 21 by Darth_Koont |
Agreed. But that should also disturb us when we see the Labour right/Change UK breed that equally seem most interested in getting paid. |
They don't seem to be very good at getting paid in comparison to the Tories. |  |
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| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 11:24 - Oct 21 with 1491 views | BlueBadger |
| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 10:02 - Oct 21 by Herbivore |
I think there's an element with the Beeb of them being coerced as well. The Tories constantly make veiled and not so veiled threats towards them, they appoint their friends to positions of influence in an attempt to shape content. They are so acted to speak truth to power these days that they end up just parroting who has said what uncritically. |
The outcome of the Hutton inquiry probably didn't help either with regards to the Beeb being willing to take on government. |  |
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| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 11:28 - Oct 21 with 1485 views | ElderGrizzly |
I’m not going to defend it, but other countries were doing the same.
The US even sent people to China to ‘hijack’ supplies and pay more to secure them. |  | | |
| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 11:38 - Oct 21 with 1462 views | Pinewoodblue |
| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 10:42 - Oct 21 by Herbivore |
It's possible to not be surprised but to also be rather depressed and quite angry about it. That the Tories and their mates line each other's pockets is a given, that doesn't mean we have to feel it's acceptable. |
Not everyone who took advantage of it was a Tory donor, they are all scum, not just those with links to Conservative party. |  |
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| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 11:45 - Oct 21 with 1453 views | lowhouseblue |
| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 11:28 - Oct 21 by ElderGrizzly |
I’m not going to defend it, but other countries were doing the same.
The US even sent people to China to ‘hijack’ supplies and pay more to secure them. |
i do wonder how certain we can be as to the "going market price" in spring 2020. the market for this stuff had rather ceased to operate in any conventional terms. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 11:49 - Oct 21 with 1439 views | Darth_Koont |
| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 11:23 - Oct 21 by Herbivore |
They don't seem to be very good at getting paid in comparison to the Tories. |
The real cash-in would be getting into power. But they’re doing alright for themselves in opposition.
I’ve got a more than sneaking suspicion that the cult around Blair is as much how he commercialised his “offering” after power. | |
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| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 12:01 - Oct 21 with 1407 views | Swansea_Blue |
| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 11:49 - Oct 21 by Darth_Koont |
The real cash-in would be getting into power. But they’re doing alright for themselves in opposition.
I’ve got a more than sneaking suspicion that the cult around Blair is as much how he commercialised his “offering” after power. |
Is there a cult around Blair in that way? His profiteering off the back of his PMship is a negative for me if anything. From my perspective I look back a bit with misty eyes at that time, purely from the point of view that so many things were better. Not everything of course and not perfect or where we may like them to be, but better than they've been since. And that applies to Brown's time too, not just Blair.
I realise that's more 'at least they're not as bad as the Tories', but that's important to those on the breadline or those families of the tens of thousands of people who've had their lives cut short due to bad government.
Never mind the policies, I'd be happy to have a government that's serious and has some fundamental human decency.
Anyway, we're going over old ground. And there's nothing wrong with sticking to your beliefs that we need major structural changes and MUCH better, rather than better but with broadly similar economic and social models. For me though the risk of enabling more of this god awful, incompetent, populist government through pursuing an ideal that won't fly with enough voters is too much of a risk. I'd happily settle for the opposition that's available now. Maybe it's me that lacks the vision, who knows. Stick to your guns though - if someone was able to enact major structural changes that benefitted more of us it would be hell of a prize. |  |
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| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 12:06 - Oct 21 with 1402 views | Herbivore |
| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 11:38 - Oct 21 by Pinewoodblue |
Not everyone who took advantage of it was a Tory donor, they are all scum, not just those with links to Conservative party. |
It'll be interesting to see how many of those who were offered VIP lane access for contracts had links to the Tory party. | |
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| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 12:45 - Oct 21 with 1354 views | Darth_Koont |
| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 12:01 - Oct 21 by Swansea_Blue |
Is there a cult around Blair in that way? His profiteering off the back of his PMship is a negative for me if anything. From my perspective I look back a bit with misty eyes at that time, purely from the point of view that so many things were better. Not everything of course and not perfect or where we may like them to be, but better than they've been since. And that applies to Brown's time too, not just Blair.
I realise that's more 'at least they're not as bad as the Tories', but that's important to those on the breadline or those families of the tens of thousands of people who've had their lives cut short due to bad government.
Never mind the policies, I'd be happy to have a government that's serious and has some fundamental human decency.
Anyway, we're going over old ground. And there's nothing wrong with sticking to your beliefs that we need major structural changes and MUCH better, rather than better but with broadly similar economic and social models. For me though the risk of enabling more of this god awful, incompetent, populist government through pursuing an ideal that won't fly with enough voters is too much of a risk. I'd happily settle for the opposition that's available now. Maybe it's me that lacks the vision, who knows. Stick to your guns though - if someone was able to enact major structural changes that benefitted more of us it would be hell of a prize. |
Yeah, it’s a bit like getting rid of Hurst but then getting Lambert. Not as disastrous but still moving in the wrong direction and wasting time.
But I agree it matters in the short-term too. Carry on in this general direction and even more of the younger generation will get screwed over, regions and communities will lose out and probably the UK breaks up too. And overall, the UK falls further back and is less and less prepared for the present let alone the future.
Time for a game changer (pun intended). Like Brexit but for the greater good not for evil and the narrowest and/or most xenophobic of interests. | |
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| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 12:47 - Oct 21 with 1351 views | Guthrum |
| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 10:19 - Oct 21 by Darth_Koont |
For the many not the few?
My concern with Starmer and his crew is not that they can’t do politics (which they really, really can’t) but that in power they’d be another retrograde step for the UK.
“Less retrograde than the Tories” isn’t inspiring enough but, much more importantly, it’s simply not good enough and will keep adding to the UK’s problems. |
But 'For the many not the few', while worthy, cuts across the modern trend of selfish individualism (which we've been taught for the last four or five decades). There is nothing in it to appeal to "me me me" culture.
It's all about framing. You could have pretty much identical policies under the heading "Making the UK better for you" and sound much more appealing to Worcester Woman, White Van Man, etc., who care little for The Many if they're being asked to pay for them. |  |
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| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 12:59 - Oct 21 with 1332 views | Guthrum |
| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 10:46 - Oct 21 by WeWereZombies |
I don't think you can write off the 'spectre is haunting Europe' analysis by Karl Marx as pseudo-Darwinian bollox, it became the main cause of class tension during the latter half of the nineteenth-Century and then the dominant political force in underpinning revolutions in Russia and China as well as being a spur to form the reactionary (but still liberating for some workers - for a while) dogma of fascism during the first half of the twentieth-Century.
You could restate it as 'history is on our side and we will be proved right after everyone is dead' though. And this may come to pass with irrefutable force if humankind as a whole does not come to terms with environmental issues. |
Classic Marxist-Leninist historical determinism, when societies march through fixed stages - punctuated by violent revolution - towards the inevitable socialist paradise, is a very poor reading of both history and anthropology, projected into the future with typical 19th century self-confidence.
Things are never as neat as that and there is no inevitability about any of it. Progress will not just fall into the laps of its advocates if they only keep the faith long enough, must be worked for. | |
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| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 12:59 - Oct 21 with 1335 views | Darth_Koont |
| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 12:47 - Oct 21 by Guthrum |
But 'For the many not the few', while worthy, cuts across the modern trend of selfish individualism (which we've been taught for the last four or five decades). There is nothing in it to appeal to "me me me" culture.
It's all about framing. You could have pretty much identical policies under the heading "Making the UK better for you" and sound much more appealing to Worcester Woman, White Van Man, etc., who care little for The Many if they're being asked to pay for them. |
But they’ve paid for the “elite” and the super-rich the other way. Fairer and more redistributive policies add value for the majority.
Your framing that ordinary people have to pay for a better society is way off. That’s why we can’t keep leaning into this narrative. It’s a road to nowhere. | |
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| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 14:06 - Oct 21 with 1290 views | jaykay |
| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 08:59 - Oct 21 by Guthrum |
Until we have mass media* who are prepared to present Labour (or any other party) as fit to govern, then they are always going to be on the back foot. Like it or not, many voters form their opinions upon what they see in the Daily Mail or the Sun (or what's passed on to them from those sources via FaceBook) than from deep consideration of manifestoes.
Unfortunately that mass media is largely owned by those with ideologies or vested interests more aligned with the (low regulation free market) Conservatives than anyone else.
* Not talking so much the BBC, more print/online and private TV channnels such as Sky. |
this.
when people say labour need get their house in order, what are they talking about.
i would love to see some examples of how there house is untidy. compared to the tories there house is the neatest on the street compared to the corrupt tories.
if labour were in power and had half the sleaze the tories had ,it would be headline news everyday. all it is smears of the labour party |  |
| forensic experts say footers and spruces fingerprints were not found at the scene after the weekends rows |
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| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 14:12 - Oct 21 with 1273 views | GlasgowBlue |
| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 11:45 - Oct 21 by lowhouseblue |
i do wonder how certain we can be as to the "going market price" in spring 2020. the market for this stuff had rather ceased to operate in any conventional terms. |
Didn’t the CIA actually pay the Chinese double for a consignment of PPE that was at the time being loaded on to a plane for the UK?
It was dog eat dog at the time. |  |
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| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 14:23 - Oct 21 with 1262 views | Guthrum |
| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 12:59 - Oct 21 by Darth_Koont |
But they’ve paid for the “elite” and the super-rich the other way. Fairer and more redistributive policies add value for the majority.
Your framing that ordinary people have to pay for a better society is way off. That’s why we can’t keep leaning into this narrative. It’s a road to nowhere. |
It's about feelings, more than reality. They don't mind putting money into rich people's pockets, because they get boxes of electronics to play with, or TV shows to watch. Philanthropy (in the wider sense) has no pay-off, unless you value a just and equitable society.
Plus there's a dollop of the American cult of wealth.
Ordinary people do have to pay for a better society. Everything costs money, lots of it. A few hundred million clawed back from Amazon or wherever in tax will not go far in something like the NHS. Either have to reduce costs - which means wages - or increase revenue.
I do wonder whether the question needs to be put to the electorate straight, shorn of all the conscience-saving veneer - do the people want to live in a cohesive, civilised society, or prefer to retreat to a cave, sit on their hoards and fight off all intruders. Sure, there won't be any taxation - but no help, either. Might concentrate a few minds. | |
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| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 14:58 - Oct 21 with 1234 views | Darth_Koont |
| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 14:23 - Oct 21 by Guthrum |
It's about feelings, more than reality. They don't mind putting money into rich people's pockets, because they get boxes of electronics to play with, or TV shows to watch. Philanthropy (in the wider sense) has no pay-off, unless you value a just and equitable society.
Plus there's a dollop of the American cult of wealth.
Ordinary people do have to pay for a better society. Everything costs money, lots of it. A few hundred million clawed back from Amazon or wherever in tax will not go far in something like the NHS. Either have to reduce costs - which means wages - or increase revenue.
I do wonder whether the question needs to be put to the electorate straight, shorn of all the conscience-saving veneer - do the people want to live in a cohesive, civilised society, or prefer to retreat to a cave, sit on their hoards and fight off all intruders. Sure, there won't be any taxation - but no help, either. Might concentrate a few minds. |
I think you’re missing the massive QE we’ve already done over the past decade or so. Plus that higher corporate tax and a more progressive tax on higher earnings won’t hit the vast majority in the pocket either.
Ultimately we have a very low combined income tax and corporate tax, and a low tax take. While the gaps between rich and poor, young and old have widened. In particular, richer home-owners have seen their wealth increase way over inflation and the super-rich have seen their wealth positively balloon. The solution is staring us in the face but no-one wants to say it. Why? Are our politicians and media across the board essentially as tucked up as the Murdoch media? | |
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| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 15:44 - Oct 21 with 1178 views | GlasgowBlue |
| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 14:06 - Oct 21 by jaykay |
this.
when people say labour need get their house in order, what are they talking about.
i would love to see some examples of how there house is untidy. compared to the tories there house is the neatest on the street compared to the corrupt tories.
if labour were in power and had half the sleaze the tories had ,it would be headline news everyday. all it is smears of the labour party |
What are they talking about? Well there was the small matter of the party being found guilty by the EHRC of harassment and discrimination against Jewish members.
Maybe you didn’t hear about it. Kier Starmer seems to be making a decent job of cleaning house but there is still more to do.
Oh and it’s “their house is the neatest in the street”. Not “there”. Always happy to help Ricky. [Post edited 21 Oct 2021 15:51]
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| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 15:58 - Oct 21 with 1152 views | You_Bloo_Right |
| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 15:44 - Oct 21 by GlasgowBlue |
What are they talking about? Well there was the small matter of the party being found guilty by the EHRC of harassment and discrimination against Jewish members.
Maybe you didn’t hear about it. Kier Starmer seems to be making a decent job of cleaning house but there is still more to do.
Oh and it’s “their house is the neatest in the street”. Not “there”. Always happy to help Ricky. [Post edited 21 Oct 2021 15:51]
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Yes a deep stain on the party, made worse by it not being addressed until that EHRC report.
But it is at least beginning to be addressed.
Would that all political parties took steps to eradicate discrimination (rather than, say, laud the worst exponents).
So as a general question (not specifically for yourself but do feel free), what else is required in this house cleaning exercise? |  |
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| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 16:02 - Oct 21 with 1145 views | Guthrum |
| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 14:58 - Oct 21 by Darth_Koont |
I think you’re missing the massive QE we’ve already done over the past decade or so. Plus that higher corporate tax and a more progressive tax on higher earnings won’t hit the vast majority in the pocket either.
Ultimately we have a very low combined income tax and corporate tax, and a low tax take. While the gaps between rich and poor, young and old have widened. In particular, richer home-owners have seen their wealth increase way over inflation and the super-rich have seen their wealth positively balloon. The solution is staring us in the face but no-one wants to say it. Why? Are our politicians and media across the board essentially as tucked up as the Murdoch media? |
You can't run the country indefinitely on printing money. The annual budget for the UK is £0.85 trillion. Every year.
Homeowners are only doing well on paper, due to ballooning house prices. They can't liquidise those assets, unless they go and live in a caravan.
In answer to your final question - yes. | |
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| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 16:14 - Oct 21 with 1118 views | WeWereZombies |
| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 12:59 - Oct 21 by Guthrum |
Classic Marxist-Leninist historical determinism, when societies march through fixed stages - punctuated by violent revolution - towards the inevitable socialist paradise, is a very poor reading of both history and anthropology, projected into the future with typical 19th century self-confidence.
Things are never as neat as that and there is no inevitability about any of it. Progress will not just fall into the laps of its advocates if they only keep the faith long enough, must be worked for. |
You've fallen into the trap of seeing Marxist-Leninist historical determinism as the only interpretation of Marx there, that was the standard Cold War view driven by the polarised political landscape of fifty or so years ago. Nowadays it has been said that, for example, Thomas Piketty has turned Marx on his head; nevertheless he still uses historical determinism and a debt to Marx's view of alienation as a result of inequality as a key piece of analysis in his works:
https://journals.openedition.org/oeconomia/10588 |  |
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| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 16:29 - Oct 21 with 1108 views | jaykay |
| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 15:44 - Oct 21 by GlasgowBlue |
What are they talking about? Well there was the small matter of the party being found guilty by the EHRC of harassment and discrimination against Jewish members.
Maybe you didn’t hear about it. Kier Starmer seems to be making a decent job of cleaning house but there is still more to do.
Oh and it’s “their house is the neatest in the street”. Not “there”. Always happy to help Ricky. [Post edited 21 Oct 2021 15:51]
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so you fed up of stalking darth after your post what got reported for abuse , thought you better find a new victim to follow about | |
| forensic experts say footers and spruces fingerprints were not found at the scene after the weekends rows |
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| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 17:46 - Oct 21 with 1079 views | Geomorph |
| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 07:59 - Oct 21 by Herbivore |
The Tories' purpose in government has always been to maintain and strengthen the status quo, which means ensuring that the wealthy - often Tory donors - continue to accrue wealth. If they can get to do that proactively through siphoning public funds to their mates then they will, otherwise they'll do it through policy choices. It was ever thus with the Tories, although this cabal are particularly brazen and shameless but that's possible because they have such a huge majority, no respect for the legislature, and a willingness to try to shape our unwritten constitution to make it harder to hold them to account.
Sadly a large chunk of the electorate either can't see this, don't want to see it, or just don't really care. The last 10 years or so in the UK have been pretty horrific and yet people keep voting for the party that has presided over it all. The country has lost its head to be honest. We need to try turning it off and on again. [Post edited 21 Oct 2021 8:15]
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to put it bluntly.. we are f@cked |  | | |
| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 17:55 - Oct 21 with 1071 views | GlasgowBlue |
| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 16:29 - Oct 21 by jaykay |
so you fed up of stalking darth after your post what got reported for abuse , thought you better find a new victim to follow about |
You asked a question and I answered Ricky. If you think that makes you a victim then you’re a very strange fellow. | |
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