| Vegans - The biggest threat to the future of animals? 14:30 - Nov 28 with 7588 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
Just to confirm, I do think all animals should live in humane conditions, and should be killed in the least painful or traumatic way possible. However...
Reading the earlier thread got me thinking, what happens in an idealistic vegan world? What happens if we all became strict vegans?
We wouldnt eat meat, dairy, eggs, or even wear wool or any other animal byproducts.
No product = No animal. Cows, sheep, pigs etc will not be kept as pets after all.
So in a vegan world, no more cows, sheep, chickens, pigs etc etc, extrapolate that for many more animals.
No more lambs jumping in the fields, no more cows chewing the cud. These animals wont have the opportunity to enjoy a simple life.
And as for countryside management, the lovely green fields will be overgrown.
Surely a vegan world in theory deprives billions of future animals the opportunity of a life?
They are a dangerous bunch, Attenborough needs to forget about plastics and concentrate on vegans!! ;-)
Discuss.... |  |
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| Vegans - The biggest threat to the future of animals? on 15:32 - Nov 28 with 2275 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Vegans - The biggest threat to the future of animals? on 15:28 - Nov 28 by monytowbray |
My simple take on it is I’d rather never exist than be born into a live of toture and/or a gory death for little sake.
Not a personal dig at OP as I’ve seen the same logic applied before, but I find “extinction” to be a really odd argument for the sake of eating meat. I’m sure people will still have pigs and cows and sheep as pets anyway in this hypothetical world as they are all awesome animals. |
My OP stated that I think animals should live in humane conditions, and be killed in the least painful and traumatic way possible. I fully agree with animal welfare.
I think the extinction argument is valid and sustainable, but we can agree to differ.
P.S. Thanks for responding in a sound way, and taking the post how it was meant. Some people have been offended on your behalf.
....and I didnt even know you were vegan until I posted this, so Ive learned something. | |
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| Vegans - The biggest threat to the future of animals? on 15:32 - Nov 28 with 2275 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Vegans - The biggest threat to the future of animals? on 15:29 - Nov 28 by Blue_Order |
VEGAN THREADS - THE BIGGEST THREAT TO THE FUTURE OF TWTD?
Get them all in the fcking bin. |
Youre confusing veganism with Brexit.
Easily done. ;-) | |
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| Vegans - The biggest threat to the future of animals? on 15:34 - Nov 28 with 2268 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Vegans - The biggest threat to the future of animals? on 15:29 - Nov 28 by eireblue |
Not really. People interested in these things should read a bit more about vegan principles.
Why wouldn’t there be sheep in the UK in 200 years time?
Should my actions as a vegan be about animals suffering today, or in some hypothetical future? |
Why would sheep exist in any numbers if there is no product to sell?
I completing agree that animals should be treated humanely. But I dont think veganism is the only answer.
However, I have no issue with you being vegan. | |
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| Vegans - The biggest threat to the future of animals? on 15:39 - Nov 28 with 2263 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Vegans - The biggest threat to the future of animals? on 15:28 - Nov 28 by Marshalls_Mullet |
How do you;
Maintain the countryside in terms of public rights of way, keeping hedges and drainage maintained, keeping the fields from being vastly overgrown etc etc.
Think about how much management National Parks require, and the infrastructure involved.
You cant simply suggest that the countryside just looks after itself. |
These things would still be the responsibility of the landowner.
If it was completely abandoned, then public rights of way and roadside hedges would probably become the responsibility of the local authority, while drainage would be with the drainage board / environment agency (although if large swathes of land were abandoned, then drainage control might no longer be required). The fields being overgrown would be part of the rewilding process and contribute towards less artificial drainage being required.
There was a documentary on BBC2 a while ago about rural areas in the north-eastern US that used to be heavily farmed, but were almost completely abandoned when farmers discovered the much more fertile land of the mid-west. The areas are now wild again. [Post edited 28 Nov 2018 15:40]
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| Vegans - The biggest threat to the future of animals? on 15:40 - Nov 28 with 2260 views | eireblue |
| Vegans - The biggest threat to the future of animals? on 15:29 - Nov 28 by Blue_Order |
VEGAN THREADS - THE BIGGEST THREAT TO THE FUTURE OF TWTD?
Get them all in the fcking bin. |
It seems to be non-Vegans starting most of them.
Suggest you have a word with the omnivores and take it up with them. |  | | |
| Vegans - The biggest threat to the future of animals? on 15:43 - Nov 28 with 2246 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Vegans - The biggest threat to the future of animals? on 15:39 - Nov 28 by Clapham_Junction |
These things would still be the responsibility of the landowner.
If it was completely abandoned, then public rights of way and roadside hedges would probably become the responsibility of the local authority, while drainage would be with the drainage board / environment agency (although if large swathes of land were abandoned, then drainage control might no longer be required). The fields being overgrown would be part of the rewilding process and contribute towards less artificial drainage being required.
There was a documentary on BBC2 a while ago about rural areas in the north-eastern US that used to be heavily farmed, but were almost completely abandoned when farmers discovered the much more fertile land of the mid-west. The areas are now wild again. [Post edited 28 Nov 2018 15:40]
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Big question marks about viability for the landowner. Cant see that being sustainable.
And to suggest that the Local Authorities could / would pick those responsibilities up? Simply not going to happen.
In the US, I would think that massively remote areas could be left wild without any impact on neighbouring populations. Could that happen on a massive scale in a far more densely populated country? Very, very doubtful. | |
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| Vegans - The biggest threat to the future of animals? on 15:45 - Nov 28 with 2240 views | eireblue |
| Vegans - The biggest threat to the future of animals? on 15:34 - Nov 28 by Marshalls_Mullet |
Why would sheep exist in any numbers if there is no product to sell?
I completing agree that animals should be treated humanely. But I dont think veganism is the only answer.
However, I have no issue with you being vegan. |
Pigeons, foxes, squirrels etc. all exist in numbers with farming.
But why do the number of sheep matter?
Is it better to have thousands of sheep living a natural life, or millions farmed? | | | |
| Vegans - The biggest threat to the future of animals? on 15:46 - Nov 28 with 2240 views | jaseitfc |
Vegan threads on here are utter pointless bull shine!
The exhausted majority do not care whether you are pro or anti vegan. |  | | |
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| Vegans - The biggest threat to the future of animals? on 15:52 - Nov 28 with 2231 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Vegans - The biggest threat to the future of animals? on 15:45 - Nov 28 by eireblue |
Pigeons, foxes, squirrels etc. all exist in numbers with farming.
But why do the number of sheep matter?
Is it better to have thousands of sheep living a natural life, or millions farmed? |
Why do sheep matter? Interesting.
I would think that millions of sheep farmed in a humane way is a good thing.
Pigeons, foxes and squirrels are primarily seen as pests, and despite their size they provide significant issues.
Im not sure that large volumes of sheep roaming free would be a good thing. Only last year I saw three sheep get hit by a car. That was not a nice sight. | |
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| Vegans - The biggest threat to the future of animals? on 15:52 - Nov 28 with 2232 views | Blue_Order |
| Vegans - The biggest threat to the future of animals? on 15:31 - Nov 28 by monytowbray |
I’m sorry for forcing you to click and read and respond. |
Not everything’s always about you, mate.
Thanks though. |  | | |
| Vegans - The biggest threat to the future of animals? on 15:53 - Nov 28 with 2222 views | SpruceMoose |
| Vegans - The biggest threat to the future of animals? on 15:28 - Nov 28 by monytowbray |
My simple take on it is I’d rather never exist than be born into a live of toture and/or a gory death for little sake.
Not a personal dig at OP as I’ve seen the same logic applied before, but I find “extinction” to be a really odd argument for the sake of eating meat. I’m sure people will still have pigs and cows and sheep as pets anyway in this hypothetical world as they are all awesome animals. |
Don't get sucked in!!! |  |
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"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Vegans - The biggest threat to the future of animals? on 15:54 - Nov 28 with 2222 views | monytowbray |
| Vegans - The biggest threat to the future of animals? on 15:52 - Nov 28 by Blue_Order |
Not everything’s always about you, mate.
Thanks though. |
Very impressive the way you managed to reverse engineer the point. Kudos. |  |
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| Vegans - The biggest threat to the future of animals? on 15:55 - Nov 28 with 2219 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Vegans - The biggest threat to the future of animals? on 15:46 - Nov 28 by jaseitfc |
Vegan threads on here are utter pointless bull shine!
The exhausted majority do not care whether you are pro or anti vegan. |
See my response to your previous post. | |
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| Vegans - The biggest threat to the future of animals? on 15:55 - Nov 28 with 2216 views | SpruceMoose |
| Vegans - The biggest threat to the future of animals? on 15:54 - Nov 28 by monytowbray |
Very impressive the way you managed to reverse engineer the point. Kudos. |
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"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Vegans - The biggest threat to the future of animals? on 16:01 - Nov 28 with 2206 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Vegans - The biggest threat to the future of animals? on 15:43 - Nov 28 by Marshalls_Mullet |
Big question marks about viability for the landowner. Cant see that being sustainable.
And to suggest that the Local Authorities could / would pick those responsibilities up? Simply not going to happen.
In the US, I would think that massively remote areas could be left wild without any impact on neighbouring populations. Could that happen on a massive scale in a far more densely populated country? Very, very doubtful. |
If the land is abandoned, then the local authority has no choice but to deal with the roadside hedges and rights of way because it has a legal obligation to do so.
Personally I don't think there would be any significant problems with land rewilding in England. | | | |
| Vegans - The biggest threat to the future of animals? on 16:01 - Nov 28 with 2203 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| Vegans - The biggest threat to the future of animals? on 14:43 - Nov 28 by SpruceMoose |
I'd die of culinary misery. That is my only concern. |
I'm sure it's been pointed out in this type of debate many times before that moose are actually vegan, are they not? :-) |  |
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| Vegans - The biggest threat to the future of animals? on 16:02 - Nov 28 with 2201 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Vegans - The biggest threat to the future of animals? on 15:54 - Nov 28 by monytowbray |
Very impressive the way you managed to reverse engineer the point. Kudos. |
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| Vegans - The biggest threat to the future of animals? on 16:02 - Nov 28 with 2200 views | SpruceMoose |
| Vegans - The biggest threat to the future of animals? on 16:01 - Nov 28 by Ewan_Oozami |
I'm sure it's been pointed out in this type of debate many times before that moose are actually vegan, are they not? :-) |
Only the ones set aside for us carnivorous ones to chomp on. [Post edited 28 Nov 2018 16:02]
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| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Vegans - The biggest threat to the future of animals? on 16:11 - Nov 28 with 2178 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Vegans - The biggest threat to the future of animals? on 16:01 - Nov 28 by Clapham_Junction |
If the land is abandoned, then the local authority has no choice but to deal with the roadside hedges and rights of way because it has a legal obligation to do so.
Personally I don't think there would be any significant problems with land rewilding in England. |
"If the land is abandoned, then the local authority has no choice but to deal with the roadside hedges and rights of way because it has a legal obligation to do so."
...you have more confidence than me in LA's picking up this kind of work and / or having the budget. They struggle to do what they already have!!
"Personally I don't think there would be any significant problems with land rewilding in England."
....massively disagree. Going to have to agree to differ on that one, | |
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| Vegans - The biggest threat to the future of animals? on 16:27 - Nov 28 with 2158 views | jaseitfc |
| Vegans - The biggest threat to the future of animals? on 15:55 - Nov 28 by Marshalls_Mullet |
See my response to your previous post. |
I did , I still think it's bull shine | | | |
| Vegans - The biggest threat to the future of animals? on 16:30 - Nov 28 with 2152 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Vegans - The biggest threat to the future of animals? on 16:27 - Nov 28 by jaseitfc |
I did , I still think it's bull shine |
Good-oh. | |
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| Vegans - The biggest threat to the future of animals? on 16:32 - Nov 28 with 2146 views | SitfcB |
| Vegans - The biggest threat to the future of animals? on 15:52 - Nov 28 by Blue_Order |
Not everything’s always about you, mate.
Thanks though. |
Where did he say it was? You’ve just made it about him.  |  |
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| Vegans - The biggest threat to the future of animals? on 16:33 - Nov 28 with 2146 views | SitfcB |
| Vegans - The biggest threat to the future of animals? on 15:29 - Nov 28 by Blue_Order |
VEGAN THREADS - THE BIGGEST THREAT TO THE FUTURE OF TWTD?
Get them all in the fcking bin. |
Careful, the boss is a vegan/vegetarian (Same thing, innit?) | |
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| Vegans - The biggest threat to the future of animals? on 16:40 - Nov 28 with 2126 views | eireblue |
| Vegans - The biggest threat to the future of animals? on 15:52 - Nov 28 by Marshalls_Mullet |
Why do sheep matter? Interesting.
I would think that millions of sheep farmed in a humane way is a good thing.
Pigeons, foxes and squirrels are primarily seen as pests, and despite their size they provide significant issues.
Im not sure that large volumes of sheep roaming free would be a good thing. Only last year I saw three sheep get hit by a car. That was not a nice sight. |
I asked if the “number” of sheep is important.
Deers get run over as well.
Your question is phrased as n a way that it is difficult to discuss this with people that haven’t really read enough about veganism, and is difficult to convey even with long posts.
You ask the question about “surely it would be better if....” from a humans point of view.
If you were an actual sheep, you would probably not want your lambs taken away from you, and would prefer to live a natural life.
The philosopher Yuval Noah Harari had some interesting thoughts around this. Especially if you start to think about future bio science and technology.
Would you be happy to grow human clones to provide body parts for your augmented body, as long as clone was kept and killed “humanely” as possible?
More importantly, would you be happy if you were one of millions of clones? [Post edited 28 Nov 2018 16:43]
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| Vegans - The biggest threat to the future of animals? on 16:48 - Nov 28 with 2114 views | Blue_Order |
| Vegans - The biggest threat to the future of animals? on 16:32 - Nov 28 by SitfcB |
Where did he say it was? You’ve just made it about him. |
By ‘apologising’ as if it was his thread/forum.
My original post was nothing to do with him, just the shear tediousness of every vegan thread on here that’s just the same shïte repeated over and over again, regardless of what side it comes from. They all end up getting deleted in the end anyway. | | | |
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