| I don't think you can say...... on 21:12 - Jan 26 with 1366 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| I don't think you can say...... on 21:06 - Jan 26 by monytowbray |
I’m fine. Business as usual. I’m not the one who feels the need to desperately justify potentially being racist. |
I don't think anyone using the phrase nitty gritty is being racist. Certainly not intentionally. And that's important. If you're going to jump on this you're diminishing proper hate stuff. There are degrees of racism. If you're going to go after people using this phrase you're actually playing into the hands of proper 'we can't say anything anymore' racists. Worth thinking about, and picking your battles, in the bigger picture. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| I don't think you can say...... on 21:21 - Jan 26 with 1350 views | monytowbray |
| I don't think you can say...... on 21:12 - Jan 26 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I don't think anyone using the phrase nitty gritty is being racist. Certainly not intentionally. And that's important. If you're going to jump on this you're diminishing proper hate stuff. There are degrees of racism. If you're going to go after people using this phrase you're actually playing into the hands of proper 'we can't say anything anymore' racists. Worth thinking about, and picking your battles, in the bigger picture. |
I didn’t say they are.
I just said perhaps listen to the argument before screaming about PC gone mad or whatever without context.
I spend a lot of my time addressing actual hate stuff too, but that’s whaterboutery.
Again, I’m not sure what you are trying to justify to me.
The culture wars stokers have billions more than me to spread their message so in the grand scheme of things my opinion alone isn’t worth a w@nk.
What enables them more than challenging them is letting then go unchallenged to wide audiences. But I raised that last week too and the responses about cancel culture from the same posters who can’t see how the last 40 years of GET RICH OR DIE TRYING society has got us here. |  |
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| I never knew this about that word/phrase on 21:23 - Jan 26 with 1350 views | StochesStotasBlewe |
| I never knew this about that word/phrase on 20:41 - Jan 26 by The_Flashing_Smile |
My creative partner, who is Bulgarian. And then confirmed by my girlfriend, who is Irish. Both are at least a decade younger than me. Not really on to call them idiots. Maybe they're just more on the ball about what's acceptable than us. Maybe we're the ignorant ones. |
Same. On a couple of occasions.
Was aware of the nitty gritty connotation a while ago, although couldn't find much conclusive proof, the research then unearthed the words uppity ond hip hip hooray.
Uppity, Southern States often used this against "Black people who didn't know their place"
Hip hip hooray, more recently comes from the German, "Hep Hep" and was used as a rallying cry during the Holocaust by German citizens while hunting for Jews in the Ghettoes, therefore being considered anti -Semetic. Also has origins in the middle age battle cry which translated from Latin meant Jerusalem has fallen. |  |
| We have no village green, or a shop.
It's very, very quiet.
I can walk to the pub. |
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| I never knew this about that word/phrase on 21:30 - Jan 26 with 1339 views | monytowbray |
| I never knew this about that word/phrase on 21:23 - Jan 26 by StochesStotasBlewe |
Same. On a couple of occasions.
Was aware of the nitty gritty connotation a while ago, although couldn't find much conclusive proof, the research then unearthed the words uppity ond hip hip hooray.
Uppity, Southern States often used this against "Black people who didn't know their place"
Hip hip hooray, more recently comes from the German, "Hep Hep" and was used as a rallying cry during the Holocaust by German citizens while hunting for Jews in the Ghettoes, therefore being considered anti -Semetic. Also has origins in the middle age battle cry which translated from Latin meant Jerusalem has fallen. |
“Cultural marxism” is a phrase born from anti-semitic Nazi propaganda.
Our local MP said it in the HoP last year.
Crickets here though. Should have got Corbyn to say it.
I don’t know why people learn this stuff and automatically resist embracing it, if not considering it. There are plenty of things I’ve learned since I was 14 years old I use to dictate my life rather than clinging onto a love of Ghostbusters and angry greebo mus... HANG ON. | |
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| I never knew this about that word/phrase on 21:34 - Jan 26 with 1323 views | StochesStotasBlewe |
| I never knew this about that word/phrase on 21:30 - Jan 26 by monytowbray |
“Cultural marxism” is a phrase born from anti-semitic Nazi propaganda.
Our local MP said it in the HoP last year.
Crickets here though. Should have got Corbyn to say it.
I don’t know why people learn this stuff and automatically resist embracing it, if not considering it. There are plenty of things I’ve learned since I was 14 years old I use to dictate my life rather than clinging onto a love of Ghostbusters and angry greebo mus... HANG ON. |
I have absolutely no idea what half of that actually means. | |
| We have no village green, or a shop.
It's very, very quiet.
I can walk to the pub. |
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| I never knew this about that word/phrase on 21:35 - Jan 26 with 1316 views | monytowbray |
| I never knew this about that word/phrase on 21:34 - Jan 26 by StochesStotasBlewe |
I have absolutely no idea what half of that actually means. |
That’s not my problem!
But which parts? | |
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| I never knew this about that word/phrase on 21:37 - Jan 26 with 1316 views | Eireannach_gorm |
| I never knew this about that word/phrase on 20:42 - Jan 26 by monytowbray |
The word “g@y” wasn’t a slur once upon a time. It had a whole other meaning. As did “que3r”, which I still hear people say all the time as if it’s fine.
Language evolves, which oddly works for both sides of the argument.
If people want to say stuff like that after becoming aware of it being a bit EDGELORD, that’s up to them, they can own whatever positives/negatives come from it personally.
My biggest gripe is many of those bothered in said thread hadn’t really listened to the argument, but felt the need to immediately whinge about the left and cancel culture. Many of which claim to be left wing but don’t seem to be bothered about any forms of racism, let alone a debatably passing phrase. |
I agree with you that language evolves but the words nitty-gritty, g@y and qu33r are not racist in themselves, its just in the context they are used. Keeping up with the latest word or statue or image that has suddenly become racist or offensive is becoming quite challenging for me. As an example I cite the description of Travellers to define a distinct section of the population. In my time they have been called Knackers ( obvious pejorative term because they did not deal in offal ), Tinkers ( they did repair tin buckets ), Itinerants ( person who travels from place to place ) and these words are now regarded as racist. At what stage will I /we know when the word Traveller is no longer acceptable?
The label we put on people is less important than the way we treat them and that, to me, is the nitty-gritty of the point.
Note: Came across this in further research.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1988776.stm |  | | |
| I never knew this about that word/phrase on 21:42 - Jan 26 with 1301 views | Nazemariner |
The minute i saw that name in the link i lost interest. Poor excuse for a journalist. |  | | |
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| I never knew this about that word/phrase on 21:53 - Jan 26 with 1285 views | monytowbray |
| I never knew this about that word/phrase on 21:37 - Jan 26 by Eireannach_gorm |
I agree with you that language evolves but the words nitty-gritty, g@y and qu33r are not racist in themselves, its just in the context they are used. Keeping up with the latest word or statue or image that has suddenly become racist or offensive is becoming quite challenging for me. As an example I cite the description of Travellers to define a distinct section of the population. In my time they have been called Knackers ( obvious pejorative term because they did not deal in offal ), Tinkers ( they did repair tin buckets ), Itinerants ( person who travels from place to place ) and these words are now regarded as racist. At what stage will I /we know when the word Traveller is no longer acceptable?
The label we put on people is less important than the way we treat them and that, to me, is the nitty-gritty of the point.
Note: Came across this in further research.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1988776.stm |
I really am gonna struggle summarising it on my phone. But I’ll try.
I think as a global society we’ve never had access to so much information/opinion. On top of that we’ve never been so subjectful to propaganda with bad intention.
It’s drastically sped up elements of how society operates, and we’re in the middle of steaming ahead to fascism or progression. It’s often overload as every week you find out somewhere you shop is exploiting labour, the people who own your tech environments are more powerful than the justice system or tax laws*, the celebrity you liked has turned out to be a raging transphobe/racist after tweeting something bad.
I prefer to roll with the punches. Being progressive isn’t about being perfect and cancellation as some claim, it’s more about being open to newer ideas, smaller voices, learning and owning your own sh1t. God knows if I had access to my FB feed at 21 I’d want to bury myself in a hole to never return!
There’s also a factor that many of these ideas are new. Black history, gay history, anti-British history all have places in higher study/theory now that weren’t there 20 years ago. That’s a good thing and something we should all pay attention too. Learning is cool. 😎
Wait until the concept that sexuality isn’t binary and no one is 100% straight comes into mainstream discussion! Even I haven’t raised that one here, I think it’s beyond consideration for many. But then again 4 years ago I was called every name under the sun for pointing out eating animals isn’t the best ethical choice, now all you b@stards are limiting my access to Tofu stocks!
*I have no knowledge on Phil/Gav’s legal matters or tax returns. | |
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| I never knew this about that word/phrase on 21:54 - Jan 26 with 1280 views | monytowbray |
| I never knew this about that word/phrase on 21:42 - Jan 26 by Nazemariner |
The minute i saw that name in the link i lost interest. Poor excuse for a journalist. |
Great Tory Minister Of Propaganda material for the future dictatorship though! | |
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| I don't think you can say...... on 22:05 - Jan 26 with 1256 views | m14_blue |
| I don't think you can say...... on 20:22 - Jan 26 by The_Flashing_Smile |
No. "Woke" actually means being aware of modern trends in order to be decent and respectful of others. Anyone saying it's bellends is usually a fat, racist, Jim Davidson reminiscing c-unit. m14 being an honourable exception obviously. |
I think we’ve got our wires crossed here.
99% of the time I see the term being used it’s in a perjorative way by useful idiots of the right who have been successfully groomed into the Tory culture war.
It’s these people I’m saying are bellends, not the ‘woke’ people themselves. |  | | |
| I never knew this about that word/phrase on 22:05 - Jan 26 with 1257 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| I never knew this about that word/phrase on 21:53 - Jan 26 by monytowbray |
I really am gonna struggle summarising it on my phone. But I’ll try.
I think as a global society we’ve never had access to so much information/opinion. On top of that we’ve never been so subjectful to propaganda with bad intention.
It’s drastically sped up elements of how society operates, and we’re in the middle of steaming ahead to fascism or progression. It’s often overload as every week you find out somewhere you shop is exploiting labour, the people who own your tech environments are more powerful than the justice system or tax laws*, the celebrity you liked has turned out to be a raging transphobe/racist after tweeting something bad.
I prefer to roll with the punches. Being progressive isn’t about being perfect and cancellation as some claim, it’s more about being open to newer ideas, smaller voices, learning and owning your own sh1t. God knows if I had access to my FB feed at 21 I’d want to bury myself in a hole to never return!
There’s also a factor that many of these ideas are new. Black history, gay history, anti-British history all have places in higher study/theory now that weren’t there 20 years ago. That’s a good thing and something we should all pay attention too. Learning is cool. 😎
Wait until the concept that sexuality isn’t binary and no one is 100% straight comes into mainstream discussion! Even I haven’t raised that one here, I think it’s beyond consideration for many. But then again 4 years ago I was called every name under the sun for pointing out eating animals isn’t the best ethical choice, now all you b@stards are limiting my access to Tofu stocks!
*I have no knowledge on Phil/Gav’s legal matters or tax returns. |
You paint yourself as some sort of hero who's ahead of the curve, who sees the bigger picture, who everyone should respect. Like you've just come home from uni for your first mid-term break and now speak slightly posher and wear hemp.
We've all been there. And we all get left behind.
I'm only so brilliant because my work wife and real wife are 16 and 10 years younger than me. I'm much wiser now... and also much stupider. You too will come to realise you're a twonk, embrace your befuddlement and just empty the fecking dishwasher. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| I don't think you can say...... on 22:06 - Jan 26 with 1254 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| I don't think you can say...... on 22:05 - Jan 26 by m14_blue |
I think we’ve got our wires crossed here.
99% of the time I see the term being used it’s in a perjorative way by useful idiots of the right who have been successfully groomed into the Tory culture war.
It’s these people I’m saying are bellends, not the ‘woke’ people themselves. |
Ah my mistake. I love you again. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| I don't think you can say...... on 22:07 - Jan 26 with 1248 views | m14_blue |
| I don't think you can say...... on 22:06 - Jan 26 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Ah my mistake. I love you again. |
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| I don't think you can say...... on 22:12 - Jan 26 with 1236 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| I don't think you can say...... on 21:21 - Jan 26 by monytowbray |
I didn’t say they are.
I just said perhaps listen to the argument before screaming about PC gone mad or whatever without context.
I spend a lot of my time addressing actual hate stuff too, but that’s whaterboutery.
Again, I’m not sure what you are trying to justify to me.
The culture wars stokers have billions more than me to spread their message so in the grand scheme of things my opinion alone isn’t worth a w@nk.
What enables them more than challenging them is letting then go unchallenged to wide audiences. But I raised that last week too and the responses about cancel culture from the same posters who can’t see how the last 40 years of GET RICH OR DIE TRYING society has got us here. |
"I’m not the one who feels the need to desperately justify potentially being racist."
You almost saved yourself by dropping the word "potentially" in there. But the insinuation is clear. You're actually saying people who use the phrase "nitty gritty" are being racist. Have a word with yourself. As I said earlier, this sort of thing diminishes proper racism and gives racists ammo.
Like Toto Nsiala chasing an attacker into the box, you're trying so hard you're actually making the situation worse. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| I never knew this about that word/phrase on 22:16 - Jan 26 with 1229 views | monytowbray |
| I never knew this about that word/phrase on 22:05 - Jan 26 by The_Flashing_Smile |
You paint yourself as some sort of hero who's ahead of the curve, who sees the bigger picture, who everyone should respect. Like you've just come home from uni for your first mid-term break and now speak slightly posher and wear hemp.
We've all been there. And we all get left behind.
I'm only so brilliant because my work wife and real wife are 16 and 10 years younger than me. I'm much wiser now... and also much stupider. You too will come to realise you're a twonk, embrace your befuddlement and just empty the fecking dishwasher. |
I am an irrelevant spec of dust in an irrelevant spec of time trying to live my life how I see fit. I have nothing to defend in my views to others I haven’t already wrestled with myself nor an ego about that fact (although it is nice to see society progress in the direction of my thinking still). Not really interested in being a hero but part of something much bigger. I’m a ghost these days as I like my privacy, and anything I do is part of a wider group, a personal life choice or nattering rubbish with other folk. If promoting my way of thinking on a forum designed for exactly that means anything more then I’m stumped.
Have you been DMing Glassers for a personality profile of me or something!?
Also, I don’t even own a dishwasher and I have enough self awareness to hate myself regardless of my age. 25 year old me would call 33 year old me a pr1ck. 33 year old me does regularly anyway :) [Post edited 26 Jan 2021 22:20]
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| I don't think you can say...... on 22:19 - Jan 26 with 1220 views | monytowbray |
| I don't think you can say...... on 22:12 - Jan 26 by The_Flashing_Smile |
"I’m not the one who feels the need to desperately justify potentially being racist."
You almost saved yourself by dropping the word "potentially" in there. But the insinuation is clear. You're actually saying people who use the phrase "nitty gritty" are being racist. Have a word with yourself. As I said earlier, this sort of thing diminishes proper racism and gives racists ammo.
Like Toto Nsiala chasing an attacker into the box, you're trying so hard you're actually making the situation worse. |
But it is that. The words I have chosen are specific in that intent. “Potentially” means I don’t have an answer. Never did.
I didn’t say it was racist. But it MIGHT be. And it’s up to you if you want to run that risk over a really pointless coin of phrase where plenty of alternatives to make the same point are out there. [Post edited 26 Jan 2021 22:22]
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| I never knew this about that word/phrase on 22:37 - Jan 26 with 1208 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| I never knew this about that word/phrase on 22:16 - Jan 26 by monytowbray |
I am an irrelevant spec of dust in an irrelevant spec of time trying to live my life how I see fit. I have nothing to defend in my views to others I haven’t already wrestled with myself nor an ego about that fact (although it is nice to see society progress in the direction of my thinking still). Not really interested in being a hero but part of something much bigger. I’m a ghost these days as I like my privacy, and anything I do is part of a wider group, a personal life choice or nattering rubbish with other folk. If promoting my way of thinking on a forum designed for exactly that means anything more then I’m stumped.
Have you been DMing Glassers for a personality profile of me or something!?
Also, I don’t even own a dishwasher and I have enough self awareness to hate myself regardless of my age. 25 year old me would call 33 year old me a pr1ck. 33 year old me does regularly anyway :) [Post edited 26 Jan 2021 22:20]
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I've no idea what you mean by DMing Glassers, just posting it as I see it. You know me, I'm always straight with you.
Trust me, every 10 years you realise the you of 10 years ago was a know-nothing twonk.
I'm 48 now, and starting to embrace my ignorance. The dishwasher reference was to myself. Filling the dishwasher is the one skill left that no-one can take away from me. I'm better at sex as well, but like most things it's just years of practice and eating well enough that you have just enough energy.
Other than that we're all just superfluous crumbling lumps of meat being shovelled into a grave. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| I never knew this about that word/phrase on 22:39 - Jan 26 with 1200 views | monytowbray |
| I never knew this about that word/phrase on 22:37 - Jan 26 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I've no idea what you mean by DMing Glassers, just posting it as I see it. You know me, I'm always straight with you.
Trust me, every 10 years you realise the you of 10 years ago was a know-nothing twonk.
I'm 48 now, and starting to embrace my ignorance. The dishwasher reference was to myself. Filling the dishwasher is the one skill left that no-one can take away from me. I'm better at sex as well, but like most things it's just years of practice and eating well enough that you have just enough energy.
Other than that we're all just superfluous crumbling lumps of meat being shovelled into a grave. |
I was joking RE Glassers.
I don’t doubt for one second I’ll be an even more righteous and unbearable pr1ck in ten years time
That curve may be exponential. Who knows. | |
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| I don't think you can say...... on 22:51 - Jan 26 with 1196 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| I don't think you can say...... on 22:19 - Jan 26 by monytowbray |
But it is that. The words I have chosen are specific in that intent. “Potentially” means I don’t have an answer. Never did.
I didn’t say it was racist. But it MIGHT be. And it’s up to you if you want to run that risk over a really pointless coin of phrase where plenty of alternatives to make the same point are out there. [Post edited 26 Jan 2021 22:22]
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Yeah but where do we stop? If I knew it was definitely racist I'd stop using it, like I did with the phrase "half caste". But it gets to a point where you're apprehensive before trying to honestly describe something, as I said with "foreign" earlier.
Try your best, sure. But don't castigate people for this, especially when the evidence is so flimsy. Without wanting to open old stuff, I got grief for a comment about Nigerians not knowing their true age. My mate who's Nigerian (you might have met him, or have at least been close to him in the pub) told me it wasn't racist but true amongst many Nigerians; it's a cultural thing to not record births, and he certainly wouldn't be offended by it. But white, middle-class men on here said it was racist.
Like I say, i give up trying to be right. I just try to be honest and decent.
And as I mentioned earlier, there's degrees of racism. My dad's a bit racist in the things he says, but he's 84 and means no harm. That's very different from Tommy Robinson and neo-nazi thugs.
I won't be upset if it turns out I can't use "nitty gritty" anymore, but I've probably only used it thrice in my entire life. My point is there's bigger fish to fry. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| I never knew this about that word/phrase on 23:00 - Jan 26 with 1189 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| I never knew this about that word/phrase on 22:39 - Jan 26 by monytowbray |
I was joking RE Glassers.
I don’t doubt for one second I’ll be an even more righteous and unbearable pr1ck in ten years time
That curve may be exponential. Who knows. |
No, you misunderstand. You'll be less righteous and unbearable in 10 years time, because you'll realise more and more what an unbearable and ignorant prick you were 10 years before. You'll also look down on the 10-years-younger-unbearable-pricks a bit more. That's why Facters is always so grumpy. He sees nothing but pricks, but knows only too well that he was a monumental prick himself. He lived in Penge as well, so it's even worse for him.
The only time you stop being a know-nothing prick is one second after you die, I reckon. And then before you know it you're shooting out of a vagina and starting it all again. Although it might not be a human vagina, you might be a kangeroo next time. And they really are pricks, with their pouches and silly legs. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| I never knew this about that word/phrase on 02:06 - Jan 27 with 1160 views | DinDjarin |
Guess we need to ban 'rule of thumb' also then.
The world has gone bonkers. |  | | |
| I never knew this about that word/phrase on 07:39 - Jan 27 with 1106 views | GlasgowBlue |
Just turned on Sky News and the first words the presenter said was “to get down to the nitty gritty of hotel quarantines”.
The racist bastard. |  |
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| I never knew this about that word/phrase on 12:44 - Jan 27 with 1034 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| I never knew this about that word/phrase on 07:39 - Jan 27 by GlasgowBlue |
Just turned on Sky News and the first words the presenter said was “to get down to the nitty gritty of hotel quarantines”.
The racist bastard. |
I hope they've offered their resignation. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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