| Fact of the matter is Cook 07:46 - Dec 5 with 1214 views | hype313 |
Left us in a worse place than when he came in, despite being given all the tools he could wish for.
On the time aspect, we are so used to seeing managers given time by Evans even though it was to the detriment of the club.
These new owners want success, I don't understand how this decision has polarised the fan base, Cook hadnt shown any improvement or progress in the past few months bar the odd nice win, which became few and far between.
Lovely bloke, wish him all the best, have no hard feelings, but he just didnt cut the mustard or perform at the levels now expected of this club.
We move on. [Post edited 5 Dec 2021 7:47]
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| Fact of the matter is Cook on 07:52 - Dec 5 with 1153 views | DanTheMan |
Pretty much agree with all of that.
I was still on the fence as to whether he should have gone, to the point that I didn't even realise he was sacked when I looked on here last night, assumed everyone was still speaking hypothetically.
Thought he probably had rest of December's game to try and get a run together but seems they wanted to have someone in with enough time to look at the squad before January.
No complaints really, but like you surprise how upset people seem about this. If we were around the playoffs I'd understand but I thought it was fairly obvious that the new owners weren't pissing about. They want to be out of this league ASAP, and they're going to be ruthless.
Wish Cook all the best, seemed like a nice and genuine guy. Shame it didn't work out. [Post edited 5 Dec 2021 8:21]
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| Fact of the matter is Cook on 07:55 - Dec 5 with 1137 views | hype313 |
| Fact of the matter is Cook on 07:52 - Dec 5 by DanTheMan |
Pretty much agree with all of that.
I was still on the fence as to whether he should have gone, to the point that I didn't even realise he was sacked when I looked on here last night, assumed everyone was still speaking hypothetically.
Thought he probably had rest of December's game to try and get a run together but seems they wanted to have someone in with enough time to look at the squad before January.
No complaints really, but like you surprise how upset people seem about this. If we were around the playoffs I'd understand but I thought it was fairly obvious that the new owners weren't pissing about. They want to be out of this league ASAP, and they're going to be ruthless.
Wish Cook all the best, seemed like a nice and genuine guy. Shame it didn't work out. [Post edited 5 Dec 2021 8:21]
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Yep, and also puts to bed this notion that the owners were not expecting us to mount a promotion challenge, seen some comments about a stabilisation season, absolute nonsense, they want a ROI, and the only way they get it is by getting out of this league. | |
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| Fact of the matter is Cook on 07:56 - Dec 5 with 1122 views | Herbivore |
Precisely this. He was here 9 months and his record over that period was shockingly poor. Recently we look to have gone backwards at a time when the expectation was we'd be starting to push on. I don't see how anyone can be that surprised at this or why anyone would think it's a bad call, given Cook's performance here.
This isn't about anyone being right or wrong. We all wanted Cook to be a massive success here and I hoped that would be the case right up until the end, despite some significant misgivings about his ability to get it right here. Those who were overly emotionally invested in Cook as our manager here need to take a step back, take a deep breath, and move on. The timing of his departure at least gives us a sniff at still achieving something this season, and I doubt there were many left who thought that would be the case under Cook. |  |
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| Fact of the matter is Cook on 07:58 - Dec 5 with 1103 views | LeoMuff |
For me most successful managers are given time at least 1-2 full seasons or more with the squad if they are to build term foundations and success,
We are not normal we have had 10 years of mismanagement, under investment at every level and a culture of disinterest, that takes a long time to turn around
The squad inherited were failing and now are plying their trade at a significantly lower level or did not want to be here.
Under Cook we underperformed, but it is unfair to count last season when all the evidence shows the squad wasn’t up to it by some distance, this season hasn’t worked but for at least 50% September and October we were in play off form, with some very impressive wins.
Sacking him feels too early to me, and I hope the next by is given more time. |  |
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| Fact of the matter is Cook on 08:00 - Dec 5 with 1085 views | hype313 |
| Fact of the matter is Cook on 07:56 - Dec 5 by Herbivore |
Precisely this. He was here 9 months and his record over that period was shockingly poor. Recently we look to have gone backwards at a time when the expectation was we'd be starting to push on. I don't see how anyone can be that surprised at this or why anyone would think it's a bad call, given Cook's performance here.
This isn't about anyone being right or wrong. We all wanted Cook to be a massive success here and I hoped that would be the case right up until the end, despite some significant misgivings about his ability to get it right here. Those who were overly emotionally invested in Cook as our manager here need to take a step back, take a deep breath, and move on. The timing of his departure at least gives us a sniff at still achieving something this season, and I doubt there were many left who thought that would be the case under Cook. |
I genuinely wanted him to be a success, I, like others are all invested in ITFC and willed him on despite having misgivings about how the season was panning out.
He can't have any complaints and people shouldn't be surprised given the investment by the new ownership. | |
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| Fact of the matter is Cook on 08:04 - Dec 5 with 1068 views | hype313 |
| Fact of the matter is Cook on 07:58 - Dec 5 by LeoMuff |
For me most successful managers are given time at least 1-2 full seasons or more with the squad if they are to build term foundations and success,
We are not normal we have had 10 years of mismanagement, under investment at every level and a culture of disinterest, that takes a long time to turn around
The squad inherited were failing and now are plying their trade at a significantly lower level or did not want to be here.
Under Cook we underperformed, but it is unfair to count last season when all the evidence shows the squad wasn’t up to it by some distance, this season hasn’t worked but for at least 50% September and October we were in play off form, with some very impressive wins.
Sacking him feels too early to me, and I hope the next by is given more time. |
I'm all for giving managers time, but bar two games in his tenure there wasn't any sign of progress, or clarity in his selections.
How long do you give people in the hope they come through without any evidence of doing so? [Post edited 5 Dec 2021 8:04]
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| Fact of the matter is Cook on 08:08 - Dec 5 with 1013 views | bobbyramsey |
I was a Cook supporter and was surprised at this news. Not because I thought he was doing a good job, he obviously wasn't but I thought he was part of their "project."
No matter, he's gone now and again I feel excited for the future of ITFC.
COYB |  | | |
| Fact of the matter is Cook on 08:10 - Dec 5 with 1001 views | WeWereZombies |
| Fact of the matter is Cook on 07:58 - Dec 5 by LeoMuff |
For me most successful managers are given time at least 1-2 full seasons or more with the squad if they are to build term foundations and success,
We are not normal we have had 10 years of mismanagement, under investment at every level and a culture of disinterest, that takes a long time to turn around
The squad inherited were failing and now are plying their trade at a significantly lower level or did not want to be here.
Under Cook we underperformed, but it is unfair to count last season when all the evidence shows the squad wasn’t up to it by some distance, this season hasn’t worked but for at least 50% September and October we were in play off form, with some very impressive wins.
Sacking him feels too early to me, and I hope the next by is given more time. |
'when all the evidence shows the squad wasn’t up to it by some distance'
And yet Matt Gill got three good performances out of them. |  |
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| Fact of the matter is Cook on 08:11 - Dec 5 with 989 views | Herbivore |
| Fact of the matter is Cook on 07:58 - Dec 5 by LeoMuff |
For me most successful managers are given time at least 1-2 full seasons or more with the squad if they are to build term foundations and success,
We are not normal we have had 10 years of mismanagement, under investment at every level and a culture of disinterest, that takes a long time to turn around
The squad inherited were failing and now are plying their trade at a significantly lower level or did not want to be here.
Under Cook we underperformed, but it is unfair to count last season when all the evidence shows the squad wasn’t up to it by some distance, this season hasn’t worked but for at least 50% September and October we were in play off form, with some very impressive wins.
Sacking him feels too early to me, and I hope the next by is given more time. |
A couple of things, if last season's squad was so abject that it's not fair to judge how Cook performed with them then (a) how were we 7th when he came in and close close enough to the top 2 that Cook came in talking about automatic promotion, and (b) what does it say about Cook's performance as manager that with a far superior squad we are doing worse than last season's no hopers?
And I'd also add that showing play off form for half of September and October but showing relegation form and bottom half form immediately before and afterwards isn't anywhere close to being good enough. If our trajectory had continued in an upward direction then Cook would still be here, but after winning well at Wycombe our performances and results have nosedived. The reality is that at no point did Cook really look like he was going to get us on a run, we had so many potential springboards and each time we limply belly flopped.
I don't disagree that generally giving a manager a full season or two is reasonable but they have to show something to suggest that if you give them that time they will get it right. Cook never did that in his 9 months here and you can't trade off past reputation indefinitely. | |
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| Fact of the matter is Cook on 08:16 - Dec 5 with 919 views | WeWereZombies |
| Fact of the matter is Cook on 08:11 - Dec 5 by Herbivore |
A couple of things, if last season's squad was so abject that it's not fair to judge how Cook performed with them then (a) how were we 7th when he came in and close close enough to the top 2 that Cook came in talking about automatic promotion, and (b) what does it say about Cook's performance as manager that with a far superior squad we are doing worse than last season's no hopers?
And I'd also add that showing play off form for half of September and October but showing relegation form and bottom half form immediately before and afterwards isn't anywhere close to being good enough. If our trajectory had continued in an upward direction then Cook would still be here, but after winning well at Wycombe our performances and results have nosedived. The reality is that at no point did Cook really look like he was going to get us on a run, we had so many potential springboards and each time we limply belly flopped.
I don't disagree that generally giving a manager a full season or two is reasonable but they have to show something to suggest that if you give them that time they will get it right. Cook never did that in his 9 months here and you can't trade off past reputation indefinitely. |
It's almost as if nearly always playing the same formation and not adapting it to accommodate different teams and game situations makes it easy for the opposition to figure you out, isn't it? | |
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| Fact of the matter is Cook on 08:24 - Dec 5 with 850 views | solomon |
| Fact of the matter is Cook on 07:52 - Dec 5 by DanTheMan |
Pretty much agree with all of that.
I was still on the fence as to whether he should have gone, to the point that I didn't even realise he was sacked when I looked on here last night, assumed everyone was still speaking hypothetically.
Thought he probably had rest of December's game to try and get a run together but seems they wanted to have someone in with enough time to look at the squad before January.
No complaints really, but like you surprise how upset people seem about this. If we were around the playoffs I'd understand but I thought it was fairly obvious that the new owners weren't pissing about. They want to be out of this league ASAP, and they're going to be ruthless.
Wish Cook all the best, seemed like a nice and genuine guy. Shame it didn't work out. [Post edited 5 Dec 2021 8:21]
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Probably because we’ve had precious little success appointing the right managers for so long, I’m guessing it’s a confidence thing with some supporters, we have to keep trying though, just glad the board seem to have acted decisively here, that’s encouraging. |  | | |
| Fact of the matter is Cook on 08:24 - Dec 5 with 847 views | hype313 |
| Fact of the matter is Cook on 08:16 - Dec 5 by WeWereZombies |
It's almost as if nearly always playing the same formation and not adapting it to accommodate different teams and game situations makes it easy for the opposition to figure you out, isn't it? |
Fair play to Cook for sticking to his beliefs, but it came at a consequence, his dogmatic approach just didnt yield enough progress or good results. | |
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| Fact of the matter is Cook on 08:33 - Dec 5 with 799 views | HighgateBlue |
| Fact of the matter is Cook on 07:58 - Dec 5 by LeoMuff |
For me most successful managers are given time at least 1-2 full seasons or more with the squad if they are to build term foundations and success,
We are not normal we have had 10 years of mismanagement, under investment at every level and a culture of disinterest, that takes a long time to turn around
The squad inherited were failing and now are plying their trade at a significantly lower level or did not want to be here.
Under Cook we underperformed, but it is unfair to count last season when all the evidence shows the squad wasn’t up to it by some distance, this season hasn’t worked but for at least 50% September and October we were in play off form, with some very impressive wins.
Sacking him feels too early to me, and I hope the next by is given more time. |
Not all of our squad from last year are plying their trade at a lower level: Dozzell, Downes, Bishop, Wilson.
Cool was worse with last season’s squad than lambert was. How some can claim that you can ignore last season when assessing his managerial performance is totally beyond me. He took us backwards that season and he carried non that trend this season. Having spunked a load of cash.
There was one worse Paul but only one. I understand he’s popular because he seems like a decent and charming guy, but that doesn’t win football matches. We need and deserve far better. |  | | |
| Fact of the matter is Cook on 08:40 - Dec 5 with 742 views | DanTheMan |
| Fact of the matter is Cook on 08:24 - Dec 5 by hype313 |
Fair play to Cook for sticking to his beliefs, but it came at a consequence, his dogmatic approach just didnt yield enough progress or good results. |
I don't even think it was necessarily wrong keeping the same formation or system game after game. Teams can do that, most good teams do play one way if they do it well they win a lot of games.
I remember one of the main criticisms of McCarthy was that we always tweaked our team to try and exploit the opposition's weaknesses rather than try and make them they and beat our strengths, or words to that effect.
The issue is we didn't play our system (whatever it was supposed to be) and seemed to do nothing other hope it would just click at some point through effort alone. | |
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| Fact of the matter is Cook on 08:43 - Dec 5 with 722 views | bazza |
I agree with the last bit, but I wouldn’t say we are in a worse position.. 11 points of top, 26 games still to play.. with a decent squad of players, we should look a very attractive prospect to managers especially with the backing of game changer and the ambition, … cook just wasn’t very good without his number 2. |  | | |
| Fact of the matter is Cook on 08:46 - Dec 5 with 683 views | Dubtractor |
| Fact of the matter is Cook on 08:08 - Dec 5 by bobbyramsey |
I was a Cook supporter and was surprised at this news. Not because I thought he was doing a good job, he obviously wasn't but I thought he was part of their "project."
No matter, he's gone now and again I feel excited for the future of ITFC.
COYB |
This is the attitude I'd expect to see. You have defended Cook a fair bit in recent weeks, but can clearly understand the reasoning even if you might not agree with it.
The toys being thrown out of the pram by some posters, in defence of a badly failing manager, is utterly remarkable. |  |
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| Fact of the matter is Cook on 08:47 - Dec 5 with 678 views | LeoMuff |
| Fact of the matter is Cook on 08:33 - Dec 5 by HighgateBlue |
Not all of our squad from last year are plying their trade at a lower level: Dozzell, Downes, Bishop, Wilson.
Cool was worse with last season’s squad than lambert was. How some can claim that you can ignore last season when assessing his managerial performance is totally beyond me. He took us backwards that season and he carried non that trend this season. Having spunked a load of cash.
There was one worse Paul but only one. I understand he’s popular because he seems like a decent and charming guy, but that doesn’t win football matches. We need and deserve far better. |
Bishop is playing in a worse side and was injured mostly, Dozzell and Downes wanted to stay, Wilson fair play, so that’s 1 player who wanted to stay playing higher. He had no chance.
Most of the others are in lower league 2, tells you everything.
So how long would you give the next one as with his own squad of players he got 20 league games, of which all of September and October we were in play off form. | |
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| Fact of the matter is Cook on 08:50 - Dec 5 with 651 views | hype313 |
| Fact of the matter is Cook on 08:47 - Dec 5 by LeoMuff |
Bishop is playing in a worse side and was injured mostly, Dozzell and Downes wanted to stay, Wilson fair play, so that’s 1 player who wanted to stay playing higher. He had no chance.
Most of the others are in lower league 2, tells you everything.
So how long would you give the next one as with his own squad of players he got 20 league games, of which all of September and October we were in play off form. |
Downes wanted to stay? Nonsense | |
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| Fact of the matter is Cook on 08:55 - Dec 5 with 610 views | Churchman |
| Fact of the matter is Cook on 08:10 - Dec 5 by WeWereZombies |
'when all the evidence shows the squad wasn’t up to it by some distance'
And yet Matt Gill got three good performances out of them. |
Three scraped wins, one against 10 men where we were given the runaround second half. Next game four days later, they caved in. Please let’s not go down the best squad in the league nonsense again. They were poor by anyones standard, as demonstrated by where most of them are now. |  | | |
| Fact of the matter is Cook on 09:01 - Dec 5 with 563 views | Herbivore |
| Fact of the matter is Cook on 08:47 - Dec 5 by LeoMuff |
Bishop is playing in a worse side and was injured mostly, Dozzell and Downes wanted to stay, Wilson fair play, so that’s 1 player who wanted to stay playing higher. He had no chance.
Most of the others are in lower league 2, tells you everything.
So how long would you give the next one as with his own squad of players he got 20 league games, of which all of September and October we were in play off form. |
Just because you have decided not to count last season doesn't mean others completely disregard it, so the he's only had 20 games line only really washes for you. The reality is he's had over 40 games in all competitions and his record over that time has been really poor. He pinned that poor record entirely on the players last season and many fans - including yourself it seems - were prepared to uncritically accept that. The reality is that this season has been little better in terms of results and many recent performances have scarcely been any better either. If we're honest, it's straw clutching to say that for a couple of months we performed at an acceptable level when since then we've regressed. I'm struggling to see what the evidence was to support the idea that Cook would take us forward in a sustained way. | |
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| Fact of the matter is Cook on 09:11 - Dec 5 with 489 views | WeWereZombies |
| Fact of the matter is Cook on 08:55 - Dec 5 by Churchman |
Three scraped wins, one against 10 men where we were given the runaround second half. Next game four days later, they caved in. Please let’s not go down the best squad in the league nonsense again. They were poor by anyones standard, as demonstrated by where most of them are now. |
I only said that Lambert's squad was 'up to it', i.e. could perform well enough to gain promotion (even if it would only be through the play-offs under a different manager), I did not assert that it was the best squad in the league - it very evidently could not be given Marcus Evans' influence on a timid approach in the transfer market. The rest of this thread has various arguments that make your assertion that it was 'poor by anyone's standard' inaccurate. | |
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