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Had a good look through the threads from last night 09:15 - Nov 24 with 1235 viewsTractorWood

There is an element of finger pointing towards Knudsen, Chalobah. I don't think they are entirely fair as fundamentally West Brom had a far more talented pool of players. That said, personally I think a midfield of Downes, Skuse and Chalobah is not collectively balanced (no problems with any of them starting individually) enough to compete with a decent side on any day. It still harps me back to the Skuglas and Hyam days.

I appreciate it's a 433 that in reality looks more like 451 but Sears and Edwards don't offer enough in terms of creativity, vision or momentary quality do bridge this gap. I might get slated for this but we've not really had a balanced midfield since 14/15, which was arguably still a bit makeshift.

To me it was another shred of mounting evidence that we are probably going down. Not because it was a bad performance but because there are probably 9/10 teams in this league that beat us all day every day and then another dozen or so who we can give a game. However, when you're bottom by 5 plus points the habit of losing gets into your being and is so hard to arrest.

As for blaming Hurst, I see the logic and don't disagree. He was clearly a bit churlish in how we ran the ship but he was trying to achieve something fairly aspirational based on a strategy. To me he had his hands tied on Waghorn and Garner and had to make significant changes on fairly meagre budget for the championship. The players he brought in do look poor for the outlay but if we don't have the resources to compete in the general championship transfer market, there's an argument that we are, where we should be.

Lambert is clearly a more statesman like manager who's quickly gained popularity and rightly so. However, I would have wanted more points from those 3 games, which again corroborates that the players aren't up to it.

I know that was then, but it could be again..
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on 09:17 - Nov 24 with 1208 views_

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Had a good look through the threads from last night on 09:19 - Nov 24 with 1221 viewsMullet

He didn't have his hands tied, he saw £ signs and the chance to make his mark. Unfortunately that meant he knocked everything down and spent all his money on the wrong things.

At worst, a decent manager would have known that selling those players would mean signing replacement X,Y or Z not just whoever you could get.

Garner was going nowhere until the last day, ME and PH dithered and Wigan offered more than they expected so they let him go. Awful planning and forethought. It just wouldn't have happened under Mick or Lambert.

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Had a good look through the threads from last night on 09:22 - Nov 24 with 1190 viewsm14_blue

Completely agree, our balance in midfield has been out for several seasons now and we so rarely take control of a game.

Like you, I think the individuals are ok (but still probably the weakest we’ve had in a long time) but the system isn’t working.

We’re powder puff.
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Had a good look through the threads from last night on 09:23 - Nov 24 with 1185 viewsFtnfwest

Had a good look through the threads from last night on 09:19 - Nov 24 by Mullet

He didn't have his hands tied, he saw £ signs and the chance to make his mark. Unfortunately that meant he knocked everything down and spent all his money on the wrong things.

At worst, a decent manager would have known that selling those players would mean signing replacement X,Y or Z not just whoever you could get.

Garner was going nowhere until the last day, ME and PH dithered and Wigan offered more than they expected so they let him go. Awful planning and forethought. It just wouldn't have happened under Mick or Lambert.


Cough, Murphy (largely agree though)
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Had a good look through the threads from last night on 09:25 - Nov 24 with 1174 viewsMullet

Had a good look through the threads from last night on 09:23 - Nov 24 by Ftnfwest

Cough, Murphy (largely agree though)


That was different. Newcastle came in last minute after going for someone else from memory. I guess had we sent Murphy up to Newcastle on the day while we made our minds up it'd have been like Garner.

Waghorn was being linked with moves for ages and Garner's family situation would have been well known given fans knew about it.

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Had a good look through the threads from last night on 09:28 - Nov 24 with 1162 viewsTractorWood

Had a good look through the threads from last night on 09:19 - Nov 24 by Mullet

He didn't have his hands tied, he saw £ signs and the chance to make his mark. Unfortunately that meant he knocked everything down and spent all his money on the wrong things.

At worst, a decent manager would have known that selling those players would mean signing replacement X,Y or Z not just whoever you could get.

Garner was going nowhere until the last day, ME and PH dithered and Wigan offered more than they expected so they let him go. Awful planning and forethought. It just wouldn't have happened under Mick or Lambert.


Garner was rumoured to want to go back up North for a decent period. Maybe more could have been done. No way Waghorn would have stayed under any manager.

I know that was then, but it could be again..
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Had a good look through the threads from last night on 09:29 - Nov 24 with 1152 viewsFrankfurtBlue

on 09:17 - Nov 24 by _



To be completely fair, he did not highlight Skuse and Hyam as problematic, but Skuglas and Hyam, which is more than fair, in my book.
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on 09:29 - Nov 24 with 1145 views_

Had a good look through the threads from last night on 09:28 - Nov 24 by TractorWood

Garner was rumoured to want to go back up North for a decent period. Maybe more could have been done. No way Waghorn would have stayed under any manager.


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on 09:30 - Nov 24 with 1135 views_

Had a good look through the threads from last night on 09:29 - Nov 24 by FrankfurtBlue

To be completely fair, he did not highlight Skuse and Hyam as problematic, but Skuglas and Hyam, which is more than fair, in my book.


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Had a good look through the threads from last night on 09:31 - Nov 24 with 1135 viewsMullet

Had a good look through the threads from last night on 09:28 - Nov 24 by TractorWood

Garner was rumoured to want to go back up North for a decent period. Maybe more could have been done. No way Waghorn would have stayed under any manager.


Lampard?

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Had a good look through the threads from last night on 09:31 - Nov 24 with 1135 viewsTractorWood

on 09:17 - Nov 24 by _



Reference was Skuglas (Skuse and Douglas) and Hyam not Skuse and Hyam. It's a subtle distinction but a really important one. As I said it was more balanced in 14/15 even if makeshift.

I know that was then, but it could be again..
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Had a good look through the threads from last night on 09:31 - Nov 24 with 1130 viewsBlueBadger

on 09:29 - Nov 24 by _



I'm not sure about that. Once large sums started getting bandied around there was only ever going to be one conclusion to that story with regards to Waghorn.

These people are called idiots and BB is their leader.
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Had a good look through the threads from last night on 09:31 - Nov 24 with 1130 viewsm14_blue

Had a good look through the threads from last night on 09:25 - Nov 24 by Mullet

That was different. Newcastle came in last minute after going for someone else from memory. I guess had we sent Murphy up to Newcastle on the day while we made our minds up it'd have been like Garner.

Waghorn was being linked with moves for ages and Garner's family situation would have been well known given fans knew about it.


We sold our best player at the last minute and ended up with Leon Best as a replacement, I’d say it was incredibly similar to what happened this year.

Agree with the wider point though, PH has done huge damage to the perfectly reasonable squad Mick left.
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Had a good look through the threads from last night on 09:33 - Nov 24 with 1128 viewsFtnfwest

Had a good look through the threads from last night on 09:25 - Nov 24 by Mullet

That was different. Newcastle came in last minute after going for someone else from memory. I guess had we sent Murphy up to Newcastle on the day while we made our minds up it'd have been like Garner.

Waghorn was being linked with moves for ages and Garner's family situation would have been well known given fans knew about it.


I don’t think I’ve got too much of an issue with the players that left in the circumstances and PH not keeping them, it’s as you and many others have said, the quality of and numbers of the replacements. He seemed to put a team together in the way someone on FM would do, ask them to run around a lot dur8ng the week, but forgot to have any sort of game plan or coach them properly.
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Had a good look through the threads from last night on 09:33 - Nov 24 with 1128 viewsFrankfurtBlue

Had a good look through the threads from last night on 09:28 - Nov 24 by TractorWood

Garner was rumoured to want to go back up North for a decent period. Maybe more could have been done. No way Waghorn would have stayed under any manager.


"No way Waghorn would have stayed under any manager."

Really? How do you know that? Did he hand in a transfer request?
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on 09:36 - Nov 24 with 1111 views_

Had a good look through the threads from last night on 09:33 - Nov 24 by FrankfurtBlue

"No way Waghorn would have stayed under any manager."

Really? How do you know that? Did he hand in a transfer request?


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Had a good look through the threads from last night on 09:36 - Nov 24 with 1113 viewsTractorWood

on 09:29 - Nov 24 by _



An improved contract is one thing but you're talking about breaking our wage structure to compete with Derby and Boro (I think). Probably £40k a week. Just Murphy situation again.

I know that was then, but it could be again..
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Had a good look through the threads from last night on 09:41 - Nov 24 with 1102 viewsTractorWood

on 09:36 - Nov 24 by _



'He moved his family including in-laws'

I love this type of rhetoric. It's utterly meaningless and corroborated by your final statement. The only factor is money and we wouldn't have put in an offer anywhere near market rate in any circumstance.

I know that was then, but it could be again..
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Had a good look through the threads from last night on 09:45 - Nov 24 with 1080 viewsTractorWood

Had a good look through the threads from last night on 09:33 - Nov 24 by FrankfurtBlue

"No way Waghorn would have stayed under any manager."

Really? How do you know that? Did he hand in a transfer request?


There were rumours of a transfer request in late July. I think he would have handed one in if we played hard ball.

I know that was then, but it could be again..
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Had a good look through the threads from last night on 09:46 - Nov 24 with 1081 viewsWhymarkmariner

Knudsen's average at best. When McCarthy brought him in he was continually getting beaten by a tall attacker coming in behind him. Mick sorted this out to a certain extent, but he still get's caught out of position. But to replace him would probably leave PL with little funds to address more serious deficiencies in attack. I think PL will bring in a centre back and a couple of forwards. Over the past few seasons we have relied on loan players such as Fraser and Celina to help us out. We haven't got anyone that comes close to these loan players.
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Had a good look through the threads from last night on 09:49 - Nov 24 with 1060 viewsMullet

Had a good look through the threads from last night on 09:31 - Nov 24 by m14_blue

We sold our best player at the last minute and ended up with Leon Best as a replacement, I’d say it was incredibly similar to what happened this year.

Agree with the wider point though, PH has done huge damage to the perfectly reasonable squad Mick left.


I wouldn't given we knew/feared Waghorn was going for weeks and made it official when we left him out of the side to accommodate it.

If we're saying Wigan was the move of a life time to top up Garner's pension, well that's a stretch for me. I think people are conflating the two moves into Murphy's there.

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on 09:52 - Nov 24 with 1048 views_

Had a good look through the threads from last night on 09:41 - Nov 24 by TractorWood

'He moved his family including in-laws'

I love this type of rhetoric. It's utterly meaningless and corroborated by your final statement. The only factor is money and we wouldn't have put in an offer anywhere near market rate in any circumstance.


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Had a good look through the threads from last night on 13:54 - Nov 24 with 886 viewsJonnosdreadlocks

We urgently need a proper target man as Roberts dos not cut the mustard and another right back, Josh Emmanuel would do that one in my view. If people want to point fingers then apart from the likes of Hurst's signings ala Nsiala and Nolan, try asking why Skuse, Chamber and Knudsen (the trinity who have been ever presents more or less since) are the constant link to our pish poor performances since MM's tenure. If they are really that good then other clubs would have been interested in signing them like Webster, Waggy and Mcgoaldrick. To be fair to Knudsen he is the best of the trio being an international and had apparently attracted interest but has anyone ever wanted to buy Skuse?

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on 13:57 - Nov 24 with 879 views_

Had a good look through the threads from last night on 13:54 - Nov 24 by Jonnosdreadlocks

We urgently need a proper target man as Roberts dos not cut the mustard and another right back, Josh Emmanuel would do that one in my view. If people want to point fingers then apart from the likes of Hurst's signings ala Nsiala and Nolan, try asking why Skuse, Chamber and Knudsen (the trinity who have been ever presents more or less since) are the constant link to our pish poor performances since MM's tenure. If they are really that good then other clubs would have been interested in signing them like Webster, Waggy and Mcgoaldrick. To be fair to Knudsen he is the best of the trio being an international and had apparently attracted interest but has anyone ever wanted to buy Skuse?


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Had a good look through the threads from last night on 14:09 - Nov 24 with 862 viewsSwansea_Blue

Great OP. Except exonerating Hurst, as his recruitment was pretty disastrous.

Knudsen is a proper footballer, not the best but plenty good enough for this level. Chalobah has talent, but much to learn still. He’s just a luxury we can’t afford when the rest of the midfield is poor. To expect him to be our saviour is bonkers.

Bottom line is we’ve been getting progressively weaker for a couple of seasons now. I thought Pennington had a mare last night. He’s not as good as CCV was last year. Edwards isn’t as effective as Celina, who wasn’t as effective as Lawrence, who wasn’t as effective as Fraser.

It’s just little increments, but year on year the individual quality drops. We finally recruit a game changer, but then sell him.

Our senior/best players now are Chambo, Skuse, Knudsen & Freddie, none of whom were our best players in years gone by. The new comers by and large are sh*t.

In short, yep looks like we’re going down unless we stregthen defense, mid and the forward line in Jan.

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