| Key workers 12:33 - Jan 6 with 4333 views | Bluefish |
How many should there be in a supposed full lockdown? Just been for my school visit and we have 30% of the school attending stating they are keyworker parents.
The teachers are running on fumes 3 days into the start of a term. The shambolic government have no idea what they are doing to these people |  |
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| Key workers on 13:57 - Jan 6 with 594 views | giant_stow |
| Key workers on 13:49 - Jan 6 by StokieBlue |
Loads of people are having to do the same thing though, if that was the definition of a key worker then the schools would be fully open with nearly 100% occupancy.
Why is she the one doing most of the childcare?
It's not ideal but it's the reality of the world at the moment. Perhaps I have a different perspective because my kids are fine with the home schooling and thus perhaps I am being a tad unfair.
SB [Post edited 6 Jan 2021 13:51]
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I get you Stokie.
Personally, I count my blessings that I only have one kid to look after although even that's a battle. And for sure, any one in a job is lucky to be working right now - I just feel for her and others in that boat. |  |
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| Key workers on 14:11 - Jan 6 with 568 views | GeoffSentence |
| Key workers on 13:06 - Jan 6 by textbackup |
both should be key workers - madness to even consider anything but that. |
A question about this has just been asked in the HoC. The ministerial response was that one key worker parent was enough to guarantee a school place. |  |
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| Key workers on 14:15 - Jan 6 with 553 views | StokieBlue |
| Key workers on 14:11 - Jan 6 by GeoffSentence |
A question about this has just been asked in the HoC. The ministerial response was that one key worker parent was enough to guarantee a school place. |
Which could mean that the schools are barely closed and the unions will push back again against the government which will only end in them being closed due to staff shortages.
I know there is no ideal solution but we either need to get this under control or we don't. 1 in 50 in the country have it - the NHS is going to be totally overwhelmed if this continues.
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| Key workers on 14:16 - Jan 6 with 551 views | StokieBlue |
| Key workers on 13:55 - Jan 6 by itfcjoe |
I think age of kids is a key consideration - we are ok as nurseries open and wife's work is flexible, but with children who are young primary school kids you can't just leave them for 40 minutes or so to get on with anything.
I have a 4 and a 2 year old, it's constant supervision required and working from is literally impossible for us both to do at the same time, when we have had to do it at times it's quite literally one goes in the office whilst the other goes out to take over |
That is fair.
Certainly with kids as young as yours they need constant supervision and it would be very difficult. I did see they were talking about closing nurseries as well which would make things very hard for you - I don't question that at all.
I fully understand that all children are very different though and my views could easily be skewed by how my kids handle home schooling.
The issue is that if people are designated as key workers when they really aren't (HR online for instance as was cited in this thread) then there will be a lot less benefit against the virus from closing the schools.
SB | |
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| Key workers on 14:21 - Jan 6 with 540 views | itfcjoe |
| Key workers on 14:16 - Jan 6 by StokieBlue |
That is fair.
Certainly with kids as young as yours they need constant supervision and it would be very difficult. I did see they were talking about closing nurseries as well which would make things very hard for you - I don't question that at all.
I fully understand that all children are very different though and my views could easily be skewed by how my kids handle home schooling.
The issue is that if people are designated as key workers when they really aren't (HR online for instance as was cited in this thread) then there will be a lot less benefit against the virus from closing the schools.
SB |
Yep, it's incredibly difficult - especially if employers aren't able to support them and it puts their parents job at risk in the short and mid term |  |
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| Key workers on 16:05 - Jan 6 with 493 views | Ace_High1 |
Thing is with the rules, nominating your staff as key workers is pretty much down to the employer.
Unless you are in hospitality or retail then almost everything else is open.
Same as the classification of essential. I work in utilities but some of the jobs we do are not connected to the countries distribution networks however clients want them done so will find any obscure link to define them as essential. |  | | |
| Key workers on 16:12 - Jan 6 with 484 views | StokieBlue |
| Key workers on 16:05 - Jan 6 by Ace_High1 |
Thing is with the rules, nominating your staff as key workers is pretty much down to the employer.
Unless you are in hospitality or retail then almost everything else is open.
Same as the classification of essential. I work in utilities but some of the jobs we do are not connected to the countries distribution networks however clients want them done so will find any obscure link to define them as essential. |
The issue is that "finding any obscure link" to make people key workers isn't going to help get the pandemic under control.
The government should have defined exactly what a key worker was and anything outside of that is WFH or furloughed.
It's rubbish but if the schools are still 30%+ full then we aren't really stopping the spread as much as we could.
Individuals and companies need to be more reasonable here but that doesn't seem to be the case.
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| Key workers on 16:20 - Jan 6 with 474 views | Ace_High1 |
| Key workers on 16:12 - Jan 6 by StokieBlue |
The issue is that "finding any obscure link" to make people key workers isn't going to help get the pandemic under control.
The government should have defined exactly what a key worker was and anything outside of that is WFH or furloughed.
It's rubbish but if the schools are still 30%+ full then we aren't really stopping the spread as much as we could.
Individuals and companies need to be more reasonable here but that doesn't seem to be the case.
SB |
I don't disagree but even in the first wave of the pandemic when we had Boris say STAY AT HOME and originally the Gov made noises about construction closing, I had clients threaten me with contractual clauses if we withdrew from site......
So it is difficult, people have declines and some will not budge. | | | |
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| Key workers on 16:28 - Jan 6 with 463 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Key workers on 16:12 - Jan 6 by StokieBlue |
The issue is that "finding any obscure link" to make people key workers isn't going to help get the pandemic under control.
The government should have defined exactly what a key worker was and anything outside of that is WFH or furloughed.
It's rubbish but if the schools are still 30%+ full then we aren't really stopping the spread as much as we could.
Individuals and companies need to be more reasonable here but that doesn't seem to be the case.
SB |
No doubt some people are taking the piss but it isn't entirely simple.
I'm in finance and WFH but we have people working in our factory that obviously cannot do that. They are by no means 'key workers' in the sense of being essential nationally but they are essential to the business being able to carry on operating. There is a decent proportion of the population that cannot WFH. |  | | |
| Key workers on 16:30 - Jan 6 with 450 views | bluelagos |
3 teachers I just asked stated they have:
30 out of 270, 20 out of 90 and 140 out of 560 who are key worker kids.
So 30% feels a little bit high but not a million miles away.
One school has tightened things up. Down side is Williamson has announced kids with no laptops can go in so they are expecting it to go up not down.
(What I was told, not seen it myself) |  |
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| Key workers on 16:33 - Jan 6 with 439 views | StokieBlue |
| Key workers on 16:28 - Jan 6 by tractorboy1978 |
No doubt some people are taking the piss but it isn't entirely simple.
I'm in finance and WFH but we have people working in our factory that obviously cannot do that. They are by no means 'key workers' in the sense of being essential nationally but they are essential to the business being able to carry on operating. There is a decent proportion of the population that cannot WFH. |
Did you make the same arguments when hospitality closed? Why should your business have a position where you stay open just because it's essential for your business to carry on operating? It was essential for hospitality and local shops to stay open to continue operating but they aren't. Is your business in some way special compared to those?
There were 1041 deaths today.
A half-hearted lockdown isn't going to solve this. It's awful I know and I am lucky that I can WFH and I know it's not simple.
A decision has to be made though because what currently constitutes a key worker won't get the rates down by the looks of it.
SB [Post edited 6 Jan 2021 16:34]
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| Key workers on 16:36 - Jan 6 with 429 views | HotShotHamish |
The guidelines are perfectly clear for each Employer. You have to apply to be considered an 'essential' business.
If successful you then get letters to give to staff to then give to the schools.
Many manufacturing & distribution businesses are classed as essential.
It is entirely up to each school as to who they accept, and they have the right to stop any child attending who's parents do not have the correct paperwork
As usual with this echo chamber I see most posters seem to blame everything on the government and most claim to have far more knowledge then they actually do.
Just another usual day on the TWTD forum. | | | |
| Key workers on 16:37 - Jan 6 with 421 views | Bluefish |
| Key workers on 16:30 - Jan 6 by bluelagos |
3 teachers I just asked stated they have:
30 out of 270, 20 out of 90 and 140 out of 560 who are key worker kids.
So 30% feels a little bit high but not a million miles away.
One school has tightened things up. Down side is Williamson has announced kids with no laptops can go in so they are expecting it to go up not down.
(What I was told, not seen it myself) |
If you look at my school as an example. We have 4 classes per year group and 4 year groups. The plan was for 2 classes of around 15 in each year group meaning 2 teachers in each year group could coordinate remote working. We now have 4 classes in year 3 in school so we don't have any remaining teachers to coordinate remote working. Many other classes have 17-19 in them | |
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| Key workers on 16:39 - Jan 6 with 411 views | bluelagos |
| Key workers on 16:33 - Jan 6 by StokieBlue |
Did you make the same arguments when hospitality closed? Why should your business have a position where you stay open just because it's essential for your business to carry on operating? It was essential for hospitality and local shops to stay open to continue operating but they aren't. Is your business in some way special compared to those?
There were 1041 deaths today.
A half-hearted lockdown isn't going to solve this. It's awful I know and I am lucky that I can WFH and I know it's not simple.
A decision has to be made though because what currently constitutes a key worker won't get the rates down by the looks of it.
SB [Post edited 6 Jan 2021 16:34]
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One thing that might need addressing is are people always paid if they stop home (for childcare) ?
Those who are not, will prioritise putting food on the table. Same issue as only 1 in 5 who are supposed to self isolate doing so.
We need to properly look at the barriers to people adopting the sensible safety first approach. Recognising that for some it is economic and expecting them to do xyz when they can't afford to is self defeating. [Post edited 6 Jan 2021 16:39]
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| Key workers on 16:40 - Jan 6 with 400 views | itfcjoe |
| Key workers on 16:30 - Jan 6 by bluelagos |
3 teachers I just asked stated they have:
30 out of 270, 20 out of 90 and 140 out of 560 who are key worker kids.
So 30% feels a little bit high but not a million miles away.
One school has tightened things up. Down side is Williamson has announced kids with no laptops can go in so they are expecting it to go up not down.
(What I was told, not seen it myself) |
My niece is deemed as vulnerable, because she has fallen out with my sister in law and lives with her Dad, and he just lets her do what she wants - he was shielding through the first lockdown, so they barely left the house and she didn't do any schoolwork at all.
She is going in because of this now, sure a few like that around too | |
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| Key workers on 16:41 - Jan 6 with 400 views | StokieBlue |
| Key workers on 16:39 - Jan 6 by bluelagos |
One thing that might need addressing is are people always paid if they stop home (for childcare) ?
Those who are not, will prioritise putting food on the table. Same issue as only 1 in 5 who are supposed to self isolate doing so.
We need to properly look at the barriers to people adopting the sensible safety first approach. Recognising that for some it is economic and expecting them to do xyz when they can't afford to is self defeating. [Post edited 6 Jan 2021 16:39]
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Agreed, that is absolutely crucial.
I assume a good proportion would be furloughed in that instance but you are right, some who wouldn't get that for some reason have very little choice but to work to ensure they can feed their families.
That is for the government to sort out unfortunately.
SB | |
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| Key workers on 16:42 - Jan 6 with 395 views | itfcjoe |
| Key workers on 16:33 - Jan 6 by StokieBlue |
Did you make the same arguments when hospitality closed? Why should your business have a position where you stay open just because it's essential for your business to carry on operating? It was essential for hospitality and local shops to stay open to continue operating but they aren't. Is your business in some way special compared to those?
There were 1041 deaths today.
A half-hearted lockdown isn't going to solve this. It's awful I know and I am lucky that I can WFH and I know it's not simple.
A decision has to be made though because what currently constitutes a key worker won't get the rates down by the looks of it.
SB [Post edited 6 Jan 2021 16:34]
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Businesses like construction have been told to carry on, but the people in them aren't keyworkers - so what do you expect to happen? | |
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| Key workers on 16:42 - Jan 6 with 395 views | StokieBlue |
| Key workers on 16:40 - Jan 6 by itfcjoe |
My niece is deemed as vulnerable, because she has fallen out with my sister in law and lives with her Dad, and he just lets her do what she wants - he was shielding through the first lockdown, so they barely left the house and she didn't do any schoolwork at all.
She is going in because of this now, sure a few like that around too |
That's a different scenario though and absolutely right that she should be going in if she gets no education at home.
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| Key workers on 16:42 - Jan 6 with 389 views | bluelagos |
| Key workers on 16:41 - Jan 6 by StokieBlue |
Agreed, that is absolutely crucial.
I assume a good proportion would be furloughed in that instance but you are right, some who wouldn't get that for some reason have very little choice but to work to ensure they can feed their families.
That is for the government to sort out unfortunately.
SB |
Hamish won't be happy though :-) | |
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| Key workers on 16:44 - Jan 6 with 383 views | StokieBlue |
| Key workers on 16:42 - Jan 6 by itfcjoe |
Businesses like construction have been told to carry on, but the people in them aren't keyworkers - so what do you expect to happen? |
I guess it's outside mostly but perhaps it shouldn't be allowed to carry on if it's not deemed a key worker job.
The government need to be much clearer about this as I said, it's far too open to interpretation (see the person earlier who is WFH in HR but has been classified a key worker).
With regards to that post, I was more pointing out that many businesses have staff who are essential to run their operation and that it's not been a reason to keep hospitality or local shops open so should it be a reason for his business to keep a warehouse open?
1041 deaths today and we have been warned we aren't near the peak yet. I guess perhaps I am in the wrong here but what is allowed seems very haphazard.
SB [Post edited 6 Jan 2021 16:46]
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| Key workers on 16:46 - Jan 6 with 379 views | bluelagos |
| Key workers on 16:36 - Jan 6 by HotShotHamish |
The guidelines are perfectly clear for each Employer. You have to apply to be considered an 'essential' business.
If successful you then get letters to give to staff to then give to the schools.
Many manufacturing & distribution businesses are classed as essential.
It is entirely up to each school as to who they accept, and they have the right to stop any child attending who's parents do not have the correct paperwork
As usual with this echo chamber I see most posters seem to blame everything on the government and most claim to have far more knowledge then they actually do.
Just another usual day on the TWTD forum. |
All I can see is people giving opinions and sharing anecdotal evidence. Not seen one poster claiming to know all the answers and/or asserting their experiences are uniform or more valid than others'. | |
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| Key workers on 16:46 - Jan 6 with 373 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Key workers on 16:33 - Jan 6 by StokieBlue |
Did you make the same arguments when hospitality closed? Why should your business have a position where you stay open just because it's essential for your business to carry on operating? It was essential for hospitality and local shops to stay open to continue operating but they aren't. Is your business in some way special compared to those?
There were 1041 deaths today.
A half-hearted lockdown isn't going to solve this. It's awful I know and I am lucky that I can WFH and I know it's not simple.
A decision has to be made though because what currently constitutes a key worker won't get the rates down by the looks of it.
SB [Post edited 6 Jan 2021 16:34]
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I feel sorry for those businesses but they are predicated on customers leaving their homes to visit them for business to continue - which obviously they cannot at the moment. There is clearly a distinction between the hospitality and manufacturing industries. If we are going to shut the entire manufacturing and/or construction industries for 2-3 months then you are potentially heading towards economic ruin.
We are screwed both ways, it isn't simple. I don't have answers and I am glad I am not the one that has to find those answers. | | | |
| Key workers on 16:48 - Jan 6 with 371 views | itfcjoe |
| Key workers on 16:44 - Jan 6 by StokieBlue |
I guess it's outside mostly but perhaps it shouldn't be allowed to carry on if it's not deemed a key worker job.
The government need to be much clearer about this as I said, it's far too open to interpretation (see the person earlier who is WFH in HR but has been classified a key worker).
With regards to that post, I was more pointing out that many businesses have staff who are essential to run their operation and that it's not been a reason to keep hospitality or local shops open so should it be a reason for his business to keep a warehouse open?
1041 deaths today and we have been warned we aren't near the peak yet. I guess perhaps I am in the wrong here but what is allowed seems very haphazard.
SB [Post edited 6 Jan 2021 16:46]
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I don't disagree with the deaths, but currently and through the whole process it seems hat Govt want/need construction and manufacturing to continue, and that only happens if the staff do it and it has these knock on effects.
There was severe pressure put to get building merchants back open in lockdown 1, because effectively large swathes of the construction industry stopped because they couldn't get the materials, coupled up with the furlough scheme.
In this industry, bar 10 or so weeks at the start it has been business as usual throughout this year, and that comes from the top | |
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| Key workers on 16:49 - Jan 6 with 363 views | StokieBlue |
| Key workers on 16:46 - Jan 6 by tractorboy1978 |
I feel sorry for those businesses but they are predicated on customers leaving their homes to visit them for business to continue - which obviously they cannot at the moment. There is clearly a distinction between the hospitality and manufacturing industries. If we are going to shut the entire manufacturing and/or construction industries for 2-3 months then you are potentially heading towards economic ruin.
We are screwed both ways, it isn't simple. I don't have answers and I am glad I am not the one that has to find those answers. |
It's not that much different to an entire workforce leaving their homes to work in close quarters inside though with regards to vectors of transmission.
Totally agree with your last paragraph, it's a horrible situation to try and manage.
So just seen that we are over 30,000 in hospital with C19 at the moment. The worst in April was 21,000. As you say, it's hard to know what to do now.
SB [Post edited 6 Jan 2021 16:57]
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