| Oborne nails it again 13:19 - Mar 7 with 8750 views | Darth_Koont |
https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/british-tories-are-morphing-party-bigots
And so does O’Brien who might be starting to feel a little duped ...
The lack of mainstream coverage or comment on this and other stuff like the ruling against the JC for making up allegations of bullying against Louise Ellman (who also did nothing to correct this as far as I can see) suggest we have a media that is entirely compromised as a seeker of truth and balance. They are an intrinsic part of the problem in UK politics. [Post edited 7 Mar 2020 13:22]
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| Oborne nails it again on 16:54 - Mar 7 with 2226 views | Wacko |
| Oborne nails it again on 16:04 - Mar 7 by GlasgowBlue |
https://antisemitism.uk/new-caa-research-shows-antisemitism-amongst-officials-in
edit- This really shouldn't be so complicated. Labour has a massive antisemitism issue and are under investigation by the EHRC for institutional anti Jewish racism.
The Tories have a massive issue with Islamophobia and have a leader who has made several racist and Islamophobic comments both in person and in print.
Both should be condemned. Neither should be defended or used as a topic for yeah but what about the other side. They are both bad.
[Post edited 7 Mar 2020 16:20]
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You're right, it's not complicated.
Labour has an issue with antisemitism.
Conservatives have an issue with antisemitism and islamophobia.
The media choose to report only the issue Labour has with antisemitism, therefore showing a bias when it comes to accurately portraying political organisations to the public (and affecting things like, I don't know, general elections).
You have an issue with facts and accuracy. You once posted ten 'examples' of antisemitism plus the official definition of antisemitism, and failed to realise that 9 out of 10 of your examples didn't qualify as antisemitic by the very definition you posted.
It's similar to why an official report by the House of Commons Home Affairs Committee is far more legitimate and independent than an unofficial report by a group called "Campaign Against Antisemitism".
edit: Home Affairs Committee not Select Committee [Post edited 7 Mar 2020 16:57]
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| Oborne nails it again on 17:00 - Mar 7 with 2214 views | Wacko |
| Oborne nails it again on 15:46 - Mar 7 by NewcyBlue |
Punch a racist. No matter where they are on the political spectrum. |
Exactly. But the media are only telling us about the racists they want us to punch (and don't admit that they themselves are also racist) | |
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| Oborne nails it again on 17:04 - Mar 7 with 2206 views | jaykay |
| Oborne nails it again on 14:12 - Mar 7 by Lord_Lucan |
To be honest I'm a bit sick of all this sh1t.
If you want to experience racism in a country then try living pretty much anywhere except The United Kingdom. |
pity you didnt mention it when it was full on corbyn then |  |
| forensic experts say footers and spruces fingerprints were not found at the scene after the weekends rows |
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| Oborne nails it again on 17:07 - Mar 7 with 2202 views | monytowbray |
| Oborne nails it again on 14:37 - Mar 7 by GlasgowBlue |
A few antisemites? You really do blow with the wind don’t you.
https://www.twtd.co.uk/forum/470573/putting-some-of-my-voting-confliction-out-there-potentially-open-to-scrutiny./#0
I look forward to you revisiting that statement when the EHRC publishes very shortly. |
Well at least Labour bothered to actually launch an investigation. But keep attacking the party trying to do something about it whilst the Tories scrap their investigation into bigotry. |  |
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| Oborne nails it again on 11:05 - Mar 9 with 2130 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Oborne nails it again on 17:04 - Mar 7 by jaykay |
pity you didnt mention it when it was full on corbyn then |
Why? |  |
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| Oborne nails it again on 11:42 - Mar 9 with 2106 views | WeWereZombies |
| Oborne nails it again on 16:54 - Mar 7 by Wacko |
You're right, it's not complicated.
Labour has an issue with antisemitism.
Conservatives have an issue with antisemitism and islamophobia.
The media choose to report only the issue Labour has with antisemitism, therefore showing a bias when it comes to accurately portraying political organisations to the public (and affecting things like, I don't know, general elections).
You have an issue with facts and accuracy. You once posted ten 'examples' of antisemitism plus the official definition of antisemitism, and failed to realise that 9 out of 10 of your examples didn't qualify as antisemitic by the very definition you posted.
It's similar to why an official report by the House of Commons Home Affairs Committee is far more legitimate and independent than an unofficial report by a group called "Campaign Against Antisemitism".
edit: Home Affairs Committee not Select Committee [Post edited 7 Mar 2020 16:57]
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There might just be a problem with Islamophobia in the Labour Party too:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51797316
But the suspension of Trevor Phillips does not mean he is guilty, at least not of having an Islamophobic attitude at present. For me this highlights the clumsy nature of modern British politics and the lack of acknowledgement on all sides that we have a long way to go before an equal society is achieved. |  |
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| Oborne nails it again on 11:48 - Mar 9 with 2103 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Oborne nails it again on 11:42 - Mar 9 by WeWereZombies |
There might just be a problem with Islamophobia in the Labour Party too:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51797316
But the suspension of Trevor Phillips does not mean he is guilty, at least not of having an Islamophobic attitude at present. For me this highlights the clumsy nature of modern British politics and the lack of acknowledgement on all sides that we have a long way to go before an equal society is achieved. |
No. This is absolutely incredible.
Some people should try and get over themselves and read Race and Faith, the Deafening Silence by Trevor Phillips. | |
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| Oborne nails it again on 12:14 - Mar 9 with 2090 views | WeWereZombies |
| Oborne nails it again on 11:48 - Mar 9 by Lord_Lucan |
No. This is absolutely incredible.
Some people should try and get over themselves and read Race and Faith, the Deafening Silence by Trevor Phillips. |
Another one for my already groaning three bookcases of 'to read', I thought his questioning of the allowance of predatory sexual practices by, note this next word, some British men of Pakistani origin was apposite and necessary (for the reasons that a quick read of the review of the book suggests). It also chimes with comments made by last week's guest on Desert Island Discs, Dorothy Byrne, about a culture of female harassment at 'World In Action' by men of colour. A hatred of racism should not blind us to crimes committed by those prepared to play the race card.
I guess this is another ten pager kicked off now... | |
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| Oborne nails it again on 12:29 - Mar 9 with 2078 views | lowhouseblue |
| Oborne nails it again on 11:42 - Mar 9 by WeWereZombies |
There might just be a problem with Islamophobia in the Labour Party too:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51797316
But the suspension of Trevor Phillips does not mean he is guilty, at least not of having an Islamophobic attitude at present. For me this highlights the clumsy nature of modern British politics and the lack of acknowledgement on all sides that we have a long way to go before an equal society is achieved. |
i would trust trevor phillips' take on racism over that of a mad bunch of trots with a grudge. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Oborne nails it again on 12:40 - Mar 9 with 2053 views | Darth_Koont |
| Oborne nails it again on 11:48 - Mar 9 by Lord_Lucan |
No. This is absolutely incredible.
Some people should try and get over themselves and read Race and Faith, the Deafening Silence by Trevor Phillips. |
Think the Trevor Phillips stuff will be very informative. Just like the defence of Patel and the lack of coverage and concern about Islamophobia in the Tory party speak volumes..
Here he is getting suspended from Labour for Islamophobia and a pattern of behaviour that is dodgier than what Chris Williamson was suspended for. And people are up in arms about Labour imposing the correct procedure given the complaints ...
I'd say you couldn't make it up. But actually making it up is the very nature of politicising and weaponizing racism. | |
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| Oborne nails it again on 12:45 - Mar 9 with 2034 views | giant_stow |
| Oborne nails it again on 12:40 - Mar 9 by Darth_Koont |
Think the Trevor Phillips stuff will be very informative. Just like the defence of Patel and the lack of coverage and concern about Islamophobia in the Tory party speak volumes..
Here he is getting suspended from Labour for Islamophobia and a pattern of behaviour that is dodgier than what Chris Williamson was suspended for. And people are up in arms about Labour imposing the correct procedure given the complaints ...
I'd say you couldn't make it up. But actually making it up is the very nature of politicising and weaponizing racism. |
I haven't seen anyone up in arms about Phillips being charged personally. Only a bit of questioning on the timing of the action. Gonna be an interesting battle. |  |
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| Oborne nails it again on 12:46 - Mar 9 with 2035 views | Darth_Koont |
| Oborne nails it again on 11:42 - Mar 9 by WeWereZombies |
There might just be a problem with Islamophobia in the Labour Party too:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51797316
But the suspension of Trevor Phillips does not mean he is guilty, at least not of having an Islamophobic attitude at present. For me this highlights the clumsy nature of modern British politics and the lack of acknowledgement on all sides that we have a long way to go before an equal society is achieved. |
The situation with Phillips is inherently no different from the situation with Chris Williamson. Apart from the fact that if Chris Williamson had said anything like Jews can't integrate into society he'd be rightly and swiftly expelled. It seems that people can say that about the Muslim community without censure. | |
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| Oborne nails it again on 12:46 - Mar 9 with 2033 views | Darth_Koont |
| Oborne nails it again on 12:45 - Mar 9 by giant_stow |
I haven't seen anyone up in arms about Phillips being charged personally. Only a bit of questioning on the timing of the action. Gonna be an interesting battle. |
Look again. | |
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| Oborne nails it again on 12:52 - Mar 9 with 2019 views | giant_stow |
| Oborne nails it again on 12:46 - Mar 9 by Darth_Koont |
Look again. |
Ok boss I had another little look around, but still can't see much outrage - just suspicion at the timing of charging an ex-head of the EHRC. | |
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| Oborne nails it again on 12:53 - Mar 9 with 2017 views | WeWereZombies |
| Oborne nails it again on 12:46 - Mar 9 by Darth_Koont |
The situation with Phillips is inherently no different from the situation with Chris Williamson. Apart from the fact that if Chris Williamson had said anything like Jews can't integrate into society he'd be rightly and swiftly expelled. It seems that people can say that about the Muslim community without censure. |
From the BBC website on the suspension to explain why I find this censuring of Trevor Phillips too crude:
'Speaking to BBC Radio 4's Today programme, Mr Phillips stood by his previous assertions that Muslims were "different", adding: "Well, actually, that's true. The point is Muslims are different and in many ways I think that is admirable."'
'He added: "My objection is very simple. That definition said...that Islamophobia is rooted in a kind of racism - expressions of hostility towards Muslimness.
"First of all, Muslims are not a race. My personal hero was Muhammad Ali, before that Malcolm X.
"They became Muslims largely because it is a pan-racial faith. This is not a racial grouping, so describing hostility to them as racial is nonsense."'
'Asked if he would change his language as a result of the suspension, Mr Phillips pointed to this new role, adding: "Frankly, it would be a bit odd if I suddenly decided because I had been kicked out of the club, I couldn't express my beliefs."' | |
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| Oborne nails it again on 12:54 - Mar 9 with 2016 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Oborne nails it again on 12:40 - Mar 9 by Darth_Koont |
Think the Trevor Phillips stuff will be very informative. Just like the defence of Patel and the lack of coverage and concern about Islamophobia in the Tory party speak volumes..
Here he is getting suspended from Labour for Islamophobia and a pattern of behaviour that is dodgier than what Chris Williamson was suspended for. And people are up in arms about Labour imposing the correct procedure given the complaints ...
I'd say you couldn't make it up. But actually making it up is the very nature of politicising and weaponizing racism. |
This is incredible.
You are amongst the crowd on here who are constant in politicising and weaponizing racism - or in turn defending possible racism point blank due to party politics.
But since I suggested earlier today that this a "Thing" it has led to some kind of counter blame backtracking that is frankly difficult to comprehend even in the screwed up world of TWTD. | |
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| Oborne nails it again on 12:55 - Mar 9 with 2014 views | Darth_Koont |
| Oborne nails it again on 12:52 - Mar 9 by giant_stow |
Ok boss I had another little look around, but still can't see much outrage - just suspicion at the timing of charging an ex-head of the EHRC. |
Here's an example of the reaction in this thread. And a fantastically hypocritical one by many who have been leading the charge on zero tolerance towards antisemitism and taking accusations as read to suspend people and accept guilt.
Maybe it's quietened down now that people have read the details of the complaint.
[Post edited 9 Mar 2020 12:57]
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| Oborne nails it again on 13:01 - Mar 9 with 1999 views | Darth_Koont |
| Oborne nails it again on 12:54 - Mar 9 by Lord_Lucan |
This is incredible.
You are amongst the crowd on here who are constant in politicising and weaponizing racism - or in turn defending possible racism point blank due to party politics.
But since I suggested earlier today that this a "Thing" it has led to some kind of counter blame backtracking that is frankly difficult to comprehend even in the screwed up world of TWTD. |
I don't think you know what you are talking about.
And I can't be bothered to work it out for you. | |
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| Oborne nails it again on 13:01 - Mar 9 with 1997 views | giant_stow |
| Oborne nails it again on 12:55 - Mar 9 by Darth_Koont |
Here's an example of the reaction in this thread. And a fantastically hypocritical one by many who have been leading the charge on zero tolerance towards antisemitism and taking accusations as read to suspend people and accept guilt.
Maybe it's quietened down now that people have read the details of the complaint.
[Post edited 9 Mar 2020 12:57]
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Dan Hodges is hardly go to evidence mr - I could have written that tweet for him before reading it! | |
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| Oborne nails it again on 13:04 - Mar 9 with 1988 views | Darth_Koont |
| Oborne nails it again on 12:53 - Mar 9 by WeWereZombies |
From the BBC website on the suspension to explain why I find this censuring of Trevor Phillips too crude:
'Speaking to BBC Radio 4's Today programme, Mr Phillips stood by his previous assertions that Muslims were "different", adding: "Well, actually, that's true. The point is Muslims are different and in many ways I think that is admirable."'
'He added: "My objection is very simple. That definition said...that Islamophobia is rooted in a kind of racism - expressions of hostility towards Muslimness.
"First of all, Muslims are not a race. My personal hero was Muhammad Ali, before that Malcolm X.
"They became Muslims largely because it is a pan-racial faith. This is not a racial grouping, so describing hostility to them as racial is nonsense."'
'Asked if he would change his language as a result of the suspension, Mr Phillips pointed to this new role, adding: "Frankly, it would be a bit odd if I suddenly decided because I had been kicked out of the club, I couldn't express my beliefs."' |
Is he really saying "You can't be racist against Muslims"!??
I think saying that Muslims can't and won't integrate while saying everyone else can is dodgy too.
Religion across the board can be an issue but he's making a very specific attack on a large and diverse community here. | |
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| Oborne nails it again on 13:15 - Mar 9 with 1978 views | Darth_Koont |
| Oborne nails it again on 13:01 - Mar 9 by giant_stow |
Dan Hodges is hardly go to evidence mr - I could have written that tweet for him before reading it! |
Sorry, I meant the thread. I edited my post as that wasn't clear.
Have a read and then compare that to the reaction when someone was accused of antisemitic behaviour.
FWIW I don't think anyone should react like that without knowing what the complaint actually is. Having read the details of the complaint I think Phillips has pushed the boundaries of free speech much more than Chris Williamson. The defence that he's a committed antiracist campaigner didn't work for CW either.
The problem with standards is that people only want to use them in the way that suits them. | |
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| Oborne nails it again on 13:22 - Mar 9 with 1959 views | WeWereZombies |
| Oborne nails it again on 13:04 - Mar 9 by Darth_Koont |
Is he really saying "You can't be racist against Muslims"!??
I think saying that Muslims can't and won't integrate while saying everyone else can is dodgy too.
Religion across the board can be an issue but he's making a very specific attack on a large and diverse community here. |
To me it seems more of an appeal than an attack. A robust appeal but, in his opinion, the best advice that he can give to them so that they can live peaceably and and advance their faith in a multicultural society. I cannot see that as Islamophobia - which was partly my point when I picked up Wacko on his suggestion that Islamophobia was limited to the Conservatives, I knew that some posters would pick up on the Trevor Phillips suspension and see it as absolute proof that every member of the Labour Party was Islamophobic - even the Muslims... | |
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| Oborne nails it again on 13:22 - Mar 9 with 1958 views | itfcjoe |
| Oborne nails it again on 12:53 - Mar 9 by WeWereZombies |
From the BBC website on the suspension to explain why I find this censuring of Trevor Phillips too crude:
'Speaking to BBC Radio 4's Today programme, Mr Phillips stood by his previous assertions that Muslims were "different", adding: "Well, actually, that's true. The point is Muslims are different and in many ways I think that is admirable."'
'He added: "My objection is very simple. That definition said...that Islamophobia is rooted in a kind of racism - expressions of hostility towards Muslimness.
"First of all, Muslims are not a race. My personal hero was Muhammad Ali, before that Malcolm X.
"They became Muslims largely because it is a pan-racial faith. This is not a racial grouping, so describing hostility to them as racial is nonsense."'
'Asked if he would change his language as a result of the suspension, Mr Phillips pointed to this new role, adding: "Frankly, it would be a bit odd if I suddenly decided because I had been kicked out of the club, I couldn't express my beliefs."' |
This was what I was sent in a daily e-mail about Jennie Formby...
4 a.m. text from one angry Labour staffer: “That [General Secretary] Jennie Formby presides over an organization that cannot throw out anti-Semites and racists or ensure huge numbers of people receive their ballots in a leadership election, but can find spurious grounds to stop a renowned anti-racism campaigner from voting who has been critical of the Labour Party, tells you everything you need to know about the toxic organization she heads.” Yikes. |  |
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| Oborne nails it again on 13:36 - Mar 9 with 1939 views | Darth_Koont |
| Oborne nails it again on 13:22 - Mar 9 by WeWereZombies |
To me it seems more of an appeal than an attack. A robust appeal but, in his opinion, the best advice that he can give to them so that they can live peaceably and and advance their faith in a multicultural society. I cannot see that as Islamophobia - which was partly my point when I picked up Wacko on his suggestion that Islamophobia was limited to the Conservatives, I knew that some posters would pick up on the Trevor Phillips suspension and see it as absolute proof that every member of the Labour Party was Islamophobic - even the Muslims... |
But it shows how infected and skewed the debate is that a leading antiracist campaigner doesn't consider Muslims a race in these terms. We can surely have a discussion about all minority communities in the same terms if we want. And just say that we are all the human race?
I don't believe that for one second. Reducing "communities" to monolithic generalisations, or that Britishness can and should somehow confer an identity that supercedes racial and cultural ones, is a huge problem and a very slippery slope.
Here's the guy who "broke" the Tory islamophobia story putting Phillips and his views in context. Read the thread for the detail:
[Post edited 9 Mar 2020 13:37]
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| Oborne nails it again on 13:36 - Mar 9 with 1936 views | Eireannach_gorm |
| Oborne nails it again on 14:32 - Mar 7 by GlasgowBlue |
If you only attack Tory racism but defend/excuse/minimise racism in the Labour Party then you don’t really care about racism. You care about playing oarty politics. |
So whats the position if you are ignoring Tory racism and bigging up the extent of Labour racism? |  | | |
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