| Iranian media claiming two tankers attacked in Gulf on 08:13 - Jun 14 with 1947 views | BackToRussia |
| Iranian media claiming two tankers attacked in Gulf on 08:03 - Jun 14 by StokieBlue |
That's poor form mate, everything should be taken on merit, not be based on things from 50 years ago which is the narrative certain posters use on here.
SB |
Where the fvck are you pulling this 50 years sh1t from? You know there have been 2 gulf wars and the 2nd one still isn't over? |  |
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| Iranian media claiming two tankers attacked in Gulf on 08:13 - Jun 14 with 1946 views | footers |
| Iranian media claiming two tankers attacked in Gulf on 08:10 - Jun 14 by StokieBlue |
Your post wasn't really doing that though, it was backing up a fallacious argument from BTR about it essentially being the US. He's certainly made his mind up, nothing open there.
Did you see the video I posted just now? That will be spun whichever way the individuals narrative goes.
SB |
Fair point that it was in reply to BTR. Like I say, just keeping an open mind. We'll see what happens.
Now off for another fun-filled day at the word mill. I shall watch the vid while munching my bacon roll (brown sauce). |  |
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| Iranian media claiming two tankers attacked in Gulf on 08:15 - Jun 14 with 1941 views | StokieBlue |
| Iranian media claiming two tankers attacked in Gulf on 08:13 - Jun 14 by BackToRussia |
Where the fvck are you pulling this 50 years sh1t from? You know there have been 2 gulf wars and the 2nd one still isn't over? |
Are you saying the first gulf war wasn't justified and was a US plot and their fault?
The first gulf war was totally justified on any level.
Bluesquid literally cites things from 50 years ago every time these things come up. I didn't direct that at you.
SB [Post edited 14 Jun 2019 8:15]
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| Iranian media claiming two tankers attacked in Gulf on 08:16 - Jun 14 with 1935 views | BackToRussia |
| Iranian media claiming two tankers attacked in Gulf on 08:12 - Jun 14 by StokieBlue |
You don't think the war of Independence, the Civil war, WW1, WW2 were genuine wars then? Since you don't seem to mind how long ago things happened they should surely be included.
Why do you actually hate the US so much? You literally take the side of whoever they are having an argument with on every subject. They are certainly far from perfect but it's not always their fault.
I accept it often is their fault but this jumping to blame before there is any evidence based of historical preadolescence is a deeply flawed argument.
SB [Post edited 14 Jun 2019 8:14]
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Ahhh the American civil war. That's my favourite war you know? I suppose you can guess why. | |
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| Iranian media claiming two tankers attacked in Gulf on 08:16 - Jun 14 with 1931 views | BackToRussia |
| Iranian media claiming two tankers attacked in Gulf on 08:15 - Jun 14 by StokieBlue |
Are you saying the first gulf war wasn't justified and was a US plot and their fault?
The first gulf war was totally justified on any level.
Bluesquid literally cites things from 50 years ago every time these things come up. I didn't direct that at you.
SB [Post edited 14 Jun 2019 8:15]
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It's completely disingenuous to know the US entered a fabricated war it is still in with your current line of posting. | |
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| Iranian media claiming two tankers attacked in Gulf on 08:22 - Jun 14 with 1921 views | StokieBlue |
| Iranian media claiming two tankers attacked in Gulf on 08:16 - Jun 14 by BackToRussia |
It's completely disingenuous to know the US entered a fabricated war it is still in with your current line of posting. |
No it's not - I've clearly said they aren't perfect but that doesn't mean different regimes in different historical contexts all do the same thing. It's lazy thinking to assume something without looking at the evidence on a case by case basis - something you've done by blaming the US already.
You didn't answer - are you seriously claiming the first gulf war was anything like the second? If not then why cite it at all?
SB [Post edited 14 Jun 2019 8:23]
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| Iranian media claiming two tankers attacked in Gulf on 08:23 - Jun 14 with 1917 views | BackToRussia |
| Iranian media claiming two tankers attacked in Gulf on 08:22 - Jun 14 by StokieBlue |
No it's not - I've clearly said they aren't perfect but that doesn't mean different regimes in different historical contexts all do the same thing. It's lazy thinking to assume something without looking at the evidence on a case by case basis - something you've done by blaming the US already.
You didn't answer - are you seriously claiming the first gulf war was anything like the second? If not then why cite it at all?
SB [Post edited 14 Jun 2019 8:23]
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I don't really know the story behind the first, but it wouldn't surprise me. They backed Saddam in the first place. | |
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| Iranian media claiming two tankers attacked in Gulf on 08:24 - Jun 14 with 1915 views | StokieBlue |
| Iranian media claiming two tankers attacked in Gulf on 08:23 - Jun 14 by BackToRussia |
I don't really know the story behind the first, but it wouldn't surprise me. They backed Saddam in the first place. |
"I don't really know the story behind the first, but it wouldn't surprise me."
And there you have it. All your bias nicely wrapping up in one sentence. You don't know about the war but you are going to blame them anyway.
SB [Post edited 14 Jun 2019 8:24]
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| Iranian media claiming two tankers attacked in Gulf on 08:24 - Jun 14 with 1915 views | BackToRussia |
| Iranian media claiming two tankers attacked in Gulf on 08:22 - Jun 14 by StokieBlue |
No it's not - I've clearly said they aren't perfect but that doesn't mean different regimes in different historical contexts all do the same thing. It's lazy thinking to assume something without looking at the evidence on a case by case basis - something you've done by blaming the US already.
You didn't answer - are you seriously claiming the first gulf war was anything like the second? If not then why cite it at all?
SB [Post edited 14 Jun 2019 8:23]
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Also, your continual use of the term not perfect gives you away. What kind of condemnation of that of a rogue state that illegally occupies other sovereign nations. | |
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| Iranian media claiming two tankers attacked in Gulf on 08:26 - Jun 14 with 1910 views | StokieBlue |
| Iranian media claiming two tankers attacked in Gulf on 08:24 - Jun 14 by BackToRussia |
Also, your continual use of the term not perfect gives you away. What kind of condemnation of that of a rogue state that illegally occupies other sovereign nations. |
"What kind of condemnation of that of a rogue state that illegally occupies other sovereign nations."
Did you say the same thing about Russia in Crimea and North Ossetia? What about China in Tibet?
I don't think you've called them rogue states for doing exactly the same thing. You certainly don't come on here at the first opportunity to launch your condemnations.
I've said they have made mistakes, many mistakes. That doesn't mean you can just blame them without evidence. Your bias gives you away just as much, look at your post regarding the first gulf war.
SB [Post edited 14 Jun 2019 8:27]
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| Iranian media claiming two tankers attacked in Gulf on 08:28 - Jun 14 with 1906 views | BackToRussia |
| Iranian media claiming two tankers attacked in Gulf on 08:26 - Jun 14 by StokieBlue |
"What kind of condemnation of that of a rogue state that illegally occupies other sovereign nations."
Did you say the same thing about Russia in Crimea and North Ossetia? What about China in Tibet?
I don't think you've called them rogue states for doing exactly the same thing. You certainly don't come on here at the first opportunity to launch your condemnations.
I've said they have made mistakes, many mistakes. That doesn't mean you can just blame them without evidence. Your bias gives you away just as much, look at your post regarding the first gulf war.
SB [Post edited 14 Jun 2019 8:27]
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They're rogue states.
There. I said it.
That was easy for me because I'm not a hypocrite.
Now, why do you always bring in other countries like it excuses the US?
You've called China and Russia rogue states in that post, but said the US just make mistakes.
Ideological. | |
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| Iranian media claiming two tankers attacked in Gulf on 08:32 - Jun 14 with 1899 views | StokieBlue |
| Iranian media claiming two tankers attacked in Gulf on 08:28 - Jun 14 by BackToRussia |
They're rogue states.
There. I said it.
That was easy for me because I'm not a hypocrite.
Now, why do you always bring in other countries like it excuses the US?
You've called China and Russia rogue states in that post, but said the US just make mistakes.
Ideological. |
I've said the US has made mistakes, certainly with Iraq the second time and a number of other wars over the last two decades. They haven't annexed them forever like the other two though so it depends on your definition.
I don't think they are a rogue state in the way you've cited though. Call it ideological if you like but it's based on the people in power at the time - something which changes all the time in the US but not the other two examples. You can cite rogue regimes if you like, which I would say Bush 2 was.
Why don't we wait for the evidence, if there is any? If it's the US fabricating it to start a war then I'll condemn that as it should be. I don't think it's right for you to condemn them before there is any evidence though.
That's not how things should work.
Any thoughts on the video I posted from the US today? I haven't formulated any myself but interested to hear yours if you have time.
SB [Post edited 14 Jun 2019 8:34]
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| Iranian media claiming two tankers attacked in Gulf on 08:38 - Jun 14 with 1885 views | WeWereZombies |
| Iranian media claiming two tankers attacked in Gulf on 08:32 - Jun 14 by StokieBlue |
I've said the US has made mistakes, certainly with Iraq the second time and a number of other wars over the last two decades. They haven't annexed them forever like the other two though so it depends on your definition.
I don't think they are a rogue state in the way you've cited though. Call it ideological if you like but it's based on the people in power at the time - something which changes all the time in the US but not the other two examples. You can cite rogue regimes if you like, which I would say Bush 2 was.
Why don't we wait for the evidence, if there is any? If it's the US fabricating it to start a war then I'll condemn that as it should be. I don't think it's right for you to condemn them before there is any evidence though.
That's not how things should work.
Any thoughts on the video I posted from the US today? I haven't formulated any myself but interested to hear yours if you have time.
SB [Post edited 14 Jun 2019 8:34]
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Although evidence can be concealed or tampered with.
Just saying.
There again, if the USA did not have a free press Woodward and Bernstein would never have broke the Watergate affair. But then again Trump has done as much as he can to undermine the press. Not that Putin is any saint in that area. And as for Xi... [Post edited 14 Jun 2019 9:02]
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| Iranian media claiming two tankers attacked in Gulf on 08:41 - Jun 14 with 1885 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
Everyone but you Stokie? |  |
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| Iranian media claiming two tankers attacked in Gulf on 08:47 - Jun 14 with 1877 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Iranian media claiming two tankers attacked in Gulf on 08:26 - Jun 14 by StokieBlue |
"What kind of condemnation of that of a rogue state that illegally occupies other sovereign nations."
Did you say the same thing about Russia in Crimea and North Ossetia? What about China in Tibet?
I don't think you've called them rogue states for doing exactly the same thing. You certainly don't come on here at the first opportunity to launch your condemnations.
I've said they have made mistakes, many mistakes. That doesn't mean you can just blame them without evidence. Your bias gives you away just as much, look at your post regarding the first gulf war.
SB [Post edited 14 Jun 2019 8:27]
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Do you regard Russia and China as rogue states but apply different criteria to America? | |
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| Iranian media claiming two tankers attacked in Gulf on 08:50 - Jun 14 with 1873 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Iranian media claiming two tankers attacked in Gulf on 08:32 - Jun 14 by StokieBlue |
I've said the US has made mistakes, certainly with Iraq the second time and a number of other wars over the last two decades. They haven't annexed them forever like the other two though so it depends on your definition.
I don't think they are a rogue state in the way you've cited though. Call it ideological if you like but it's based on the people in power at the time - something which changes all the time in the US but not the other two examples. You can cite rogue regimes if you like, which I would say Bush 2 was.
Why don't we wait for the evidence, if there is any? If it's the US fabricating it to start a war then I'll condemn that as it should be. I don't think it's right for you to condemn them before there is any evidence though.
That's not how things should work.
Any thoughts on the video I posted from the US today? I haven't formulated any myself but interested to hear yours if you have time.
SB [Post edited 14 Jun 2019 8:34]
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Oh come off it Stokie. America annexes nations via economics/corporations.....there's a pattern of behaviour here in towing the line/compliant thinking! [Post edited 14 Jun 2019 8:51]
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| Iranian media claiming two tankers attacked in Gulf on 08:53 - Jun 14 with 1859 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Iranian media claiming two tankers attacked in Gulf on 08:38 - Jun 14 by WeWereZombies |
Although evidence can be concealed or tampered with.
Just saying.
There again, if the USA did not have a free press Woodward and Bernstein would never have broke the Watergate affair. But then again Trump has done as much as he can to undermine the press. Not that Putin is any saint in that area. And as for Xi... [Post edited 14 Jun 2019 9:02]
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In an age when people can be digitally made to say things they haven't then we're all a bit screwed really aren't we. | |
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| Iranian media claiming two tankers attacked in Gulf on 08:59 - Jun 14 with 1848 views | giant_stow |
| Iranian media claiming two tankers attacked in Gulf on 08:32 - Jun 14 by StokieBlue |
I've said the US has made mistakes, certainly with Iraq the second time and a number of other wars over the last two decades. They haven't annexed them forever like the other two though so it depends on your definition.
I don't think they are a rogue state in the way you've cited though. Call it ideological if you like but it's based on the people in power at the time - something which changes all the time in the US but not the other two examples. You can cite rogue regimes if you like, which I would say Bush 2 was.
Why don't we wait for the evidence, if there is any? If it's the US fabricating it to start a war then I'll condemn that as it should be. I don't think it's right for you to condemn them before there is any evidence though.
That's not how things should work.
Any thoughts on the video I posted from the US today? I haven't formulated any myself but interested to hear yours if you have time.
SB [Post edited 14 Jun 2019 8:34]
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The video is intriguing but only leaves questions to me:
What else was videoed?
If there was a plane spying on them, they should have the whole attack filmed, no?
Why bother to remove mine if you've got to do so with a bludy great big boat?
Why mine the boat if you're going to shoot a missile at it afterwards?
If one mine has gone off, why return to get an unexploded potentially dangerous one back?
Why do any of this so openly when they know the yanks must have numerous ways of watching? |  |
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| Iranian media claiming two tankers attacked in Gulf on 09:06 - Jun 14 with 1832 views | StokieBlue |
| Iranian media claiming two tankers attacked in Gulf on 08:41 - Jun 14 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Everyone but you Stokie? |
I was mirroring the opening post by Steve.
I've said I haven't drawn any conclusions from it.
SB | |
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| Iranian media claiming two tankers attacked in Gulf on 09:07 - Jun 14 with 1830 views | StokieBlue |
| Iranian media claiming two tankers attacked in Gulf on 08:47 - Jun 14 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Do you regard Russia and China as rogue states but apply different criteria to America? |
I've explained my reasoning on why that is. I think it's more a case of rogue regime than state policy. There is a difference as I highlighted.
I've also said that the 2nd gulf war under Bush was a rogue regime.
SB | |
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| Iranian media claiming two tankers attacked in Gulf on 09:08 - Jun 14 with 1829 views | StokieBlue |
| Iranian media claiming two tankers attacked in Gulf on 08:50 - Jun 14 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Oh come off it Stokie. America annexes nations via economics/corporations.....there's a pattern of behaviour here in towing the line/compliant thinking! [Post edited 14 Jun 2019 8:51]
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That's entirely different and you know it.
Massive difference in using economic leverage over invading and subjugating a population. Even now Russia continues to encroach further into Georgia.
You refuse to see the difference because of your own narrative. That's fine but you should acknowledge that as I have.
SB | |
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| Iranian media claiming two tankers attacked in Gulf on 09:09 - Jun 14 with 1825 views | StokieBlue |
| Iranian media claiming two tankers attacked in Gulf on 08:53 - Jun 14 by BanksterDebtSlave |
In an age when people can be digitally made to say things they haven't then we're all a bit screwed really aren't we. |
Given that what is acceptable evidence in your mind? It's an interesting debate.
Because from your post you seem to indicate that nothing could ever been seen as evidence as everything can be faked. This is probably true but then surely anyone can claim anything.
SB | |
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| Iranian media claiming two tankers attacked in Gulf on 09:10 - Jun 14 with 1824 views | footers |
| Iranian media claiming two tankers attacked in Gulf on 09:08 - Jun 14 by StokieBlue |
That's entirely different and you know it.
Massive difference in using economic leverage over invading and subjugating a population. Even now Russia continues to encroach further into Georgia.
You refuse to see the difference because of your own narrative. That's fine but you should acknowledge that as I have.
SB |
The two usually go hand-in-hand as we saw with co-operative farmers, the Man from Del Monte and the Contras. | |
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| Iranian media claiming two tankers attacked in Gulf on 09:12 - Jun 14 with 1822 views | StokieBlue |
| Iranian media claiming two tankers attacked in Gulf on 08:59 - Jun 14 by giant_stow |
The video is intriguing but only leaves questions to me:
What else was videoed?
If there was a plane spying on them, they should have the whole attack filmed, no?
Why bother to remove mine if you've got to do so with a bludy great big boat?
Why mine the boat if you're going to shoot a missile at it afterwards?
If one mine has gone off, why return to get an unexploded potentially dangerous one back?
Why do any of this so openly when they know the yanks must have numerous ways of watching? |
All very valid points, as I said, I've not made any conclusions.
To cover a few points:
"Why bother to remove mine if you've got to do so with a bludy great big boat?"
Because if it's not gone off and it's clearly Iranian that's quite a big smoking gun.
"Why mine the boat if you're going to shoot a missile at it afterwards? "
Guthers covered this point on page 1. It looks more like planted mines than a missile attack hence it does fit with that and the above.
"If one mine has gone off, why return to get an unexploded potentially dangerous one back? "
Because of the first point - it's evidence of who did it.
"Why do any of this so openly when they know the yanks must have numerous ways of watching?"
A very good point. Possibly because the video doesn't matter. Some have already decided it's fake I am sure so doesn't matter if you get videoed doing it.
All good questions.
SB | |
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| Iranian media claiming two tankers attacked in Gulf on 09:13 - Jun 14 with 1819 views | StokieBlue |
| Iranian media claiming two tankers attacked in Gulf on 09:10 - Jun 14 by footers |
The two usually go hand-in-hand as we saw with co-operative farmers, the Man from Del Monte and the Contras. |
Once again, we are talking nearly 40 years ago. How long can historical events be used as contemporary evidence?
All I am saying is that in this thread alone there were numerous posters who had decided it was the US doing a false flag or whatever without any evidence.
I don't think that is the way people should approach things.
SB [Post edited 14 Jun 2019 9:14]
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