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A number scientists had been floating the idea that herd immunity from covid might be impossible due to the fact that immunised people still carry a high enough viral load to infect other people.
It seems this has been tentatively confirmed by a new study:
Essentially it would render the government strategy of herd immunity (which they have been attempting regardless of what they say) impossible because the unvaccinated cannot rely on the immunity of the vaccinated to prevent them getting infected as they can with other diseases.
The study also highlighted a few worrying things for the vaccinated:
“What we found, surprisingly, was that already by three months after receipt of the second vaccine dose, the risk of acquiring infection was higher compared to being more recently vaccinated,”
This was also interesting given a discussion on here over the last few days around mask wearing and other respiratory viruses:
"Kao suggested the findings also added weight to calls for the introduction of further measures in the UK to tackle the spread of Covid, adding the move could also mitigate the risks posed by other respiratory infections including flu."
Those eligible for boosters should get them straight away.
SB
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I was pretty clear on what my view was..... on 13:41 - Oct 29 with 1079 views
Perhaps you should read my post..... on 13:23 - Oct 29 by StokieBlue
I don't think I piled in, I simply wanted to know what the scaremongering side of the argument was. There is a lot of "but both sides" stuff going on here recently so I felt it was right to ask what the other side was.
I am sorry to hear of your losses, the pandemic has been hard for everyone regardless of their viewpoint.
You've not been explicitly clear in your responses to what the scaremongering side is. Am I to infer that it's people saying covid is going to be far worse with more cases than what we actually have seen?
Nobody is stopping you presenting a point of view, just asking for clarity on what that view is (which I still don't have, perhaps I am missing something obvious).
SB
....and I don't really want to get into a ridiculous back and forth when we are ultimately talking about people's lives.
My point isn't limited to people that post on here, but more a wider point that "both sides" (as you call it) have people making claims that aren't true.
A daft conspiracy theorist saying that the whole pandemic is a staged illuminati plot will effect people, but so will a "Prof" on twitter saying that we are going to see 200,000 infections a day.
This said, in the last 24 hours on here I've seen:
All of Europe is dealing with the pandemic better than us - Not true Hospitalisation rates are higher now than they were this time last year - Not true The recent drop in cases is just because of less testing - Not true
We have had a poster on here who was petrified to even leave their house for over a year, this person was plainly upset at what they were seeing/reading, some of which was grossly exaggerated.
"The sooner he comes back the better, this place has been a disaster without him" - TWTD User (July 2025)
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I was pretty clear on what my view was..... on 13:52 - Oct 29 with 1036 views
I was pretty clear on what my view was..... on 13:41 - Oct 29 by Bloots
....and I don't really want to get into a ridiculous back and forth when we are ultimately talking about people's lives.
My point isn't limited to people that post on here, but more a wider point that "both sides" (as you call it) have people making claims that aren't true.
A daft conspiracy theorist saying that the whole pandemic is a staged illuminati plot will effect people, but so will a "Prof" on twitter saying that we are going to see 200,000 infections a day.
This said, in the last 24 hours on here I've seen:
All of Europe is dealing with the pandemic better than us - Not true Hospitalisation rates are higher now than they were this time last year - Not true The recent drop in cases is just because of less testing - Not true
We have had a poster on here who was petrified to even leave their house for over a year, this person was plainly upset at what they were seeing/reading, some of which was grossly exaggerated.
Any reason all of your recent examples are people overplaying and not underplaying like Digger in this very thread?
Didn't know Arsene Wenger posted on here?
Dear old footers KC - Private Counsel to Big Farmer - Liberator of Vichy TWTD
Perhaps you should read my post..... on 13:18 - Oct 29 by Bloots
....rather than just jumping in with this new mantra of "both sides".
I said I agree with masks, social distancing etc.
My point, that you and SB have piled into, was specifically about people spreading disinformation about covid, from "both sides" (ha) and that both have consequences.
This thread is starting to remind me of the bad old days of this forum, I was stupid to even attempt to express a point of view.
What a place.
Kudos to anyone who gets to the end of this!
The fundamental problem here is with modern society - technology has adavanced so much in recent years that people have got used to being in control of their day-to-day lives for the small things - like choosing suppliers for services, schools, Universities, managing their money (assuming thay are in a position to do so), which of the plethora of news outlets to read, even their interactions with people via social media. Many of the complexities of life are handle by other people on our behalf, so when something like Covid comes along, people expect a good service from our leaders and experts that tells us exactly what the situation is, what we need to do, and what will happen in any given scenario. The fact that Covid isn't as obvious a killer as, say, the Black Death, means people didn't immediately see the initial impact of Covid and the impacts of mitigation measures can readily be measured. WIthin those gaps "scaremongering" can easily be perceived, and "disinformation" can easily be generated (deliberately or otherwise). In days gone by, these outbreaks would take years to die down, now in the 21st century people think these things should be eradicated in weeks, or months, and decry the leaders and experts when that doesn't happen.
You are the obsolete SRN4 to my Fairey Rotodyne....
....are being deliberately obtuse, or simply just trying to create yet another argument.
It was the question that SB specifically asked, so that's the one I answered.
You are yet again going down the road of inferring that if you don't explicitly abuse someone on here then you must agree with them.
Strange.
Abuse? Who's asking anyone to abuse anyone?
You gave both sides as being conspiracists and professors using modelling to suggest what may happen. You then go on to list misinformartion posted on here recently with all examples being people overplaying while offering none on the other side. It's just odd when trying to give a balanced view.
Dear old footers KC - Private Counsel to Big Farmer - Liberator of Vichy TWTD
....are being deliberately obtuse, or simply just trying to create yet another argument.
It was the question that SB specifically asked, so that's the one I answered.
You are yet again going down the road of inferring that if you don't explicitly abuse someone on here then you must agree with them.
Strange.
It’s also strange how after some weeks of tranquility reasoned debate between interesting posters and gentle mockery, as you allude to in other words proper TWTD, the return of some posters leads to predictably endless rancour and personalisation of arguments.
In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
I assume that you.... on 14:06 - Oct 29 by chicoazul
It’s also strange how after some weeks of tranquility reasoned debate between interesting posters and gentle mockery, as you allude to in other words proper TWTD, the return of some posters leads to predictably endless rancour and personalisation of arguments.
Ah, the sub-Hitchens contrarian troll appears!
How are you keeping, luv? I never row with you because I know you don't mean anything you say.
I do like the yellow card waving though!
Dear old footers KC - Private Counsel to Big Farmer - Liberator of Vichy TWTD
I assume that you.... on 14:08 - Oct 29 by footers
Ah, the sub-Hitchens contrarian troll appears!
How are you keeping, luv? I never row with you because I know you don't mean anything you say.
I do like the yellow card waving though!
Am I wrong?
In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
I assume that you.... on 14:06 - Oct 29 by chicoazul
It’s also strange how after some weeks of tranquility reasoned debate between interesting posters and gentle mockery, as you allude to in other words proper TWTD, the return of some posters leads to predictably endless rancour and personalisation of arguments.
...intersperse his bickering and belittling with a couple of "funny" posts.
What a character.
"The sooner he comes back the better, this place has been a disaster without him" - TWTD User (July 2025)
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I assume that you.... on 14:12 - Oct 29 with 956 views
I assume that you.... on 14:12 - Oct 29 by footers
Yes. As usual.
But can you tell me how these issues are linked to drug use, people looking down on the nuclear family and comprehensive education?
Think that's most of your repetoire covered.
Clockwork.
In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
I assume that you.... on 14:05 - Oct 29 by footers
Abuse? Who's asking anyone to abuse anyone?
You gave both sides as being conspiracists and professors using modelling to suggest what may happen. You then go on to list misinformartion posted on here recently with all examples being people overplaying while offering none on the other side. It's just odd when trying to give a balanced view.
....before you sloped off last time, based purely on the fact that I hadn't joined in with the daily/hourly "Paz pile ons".
You are doing exactly the same thing again......if only you had a clue what you were talking about.
Just to reiterate, SB asked me a specific question that I answered.
"The sooner he comes back the better, this place has been a disaster without him" - TWTD User (July 2025)
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It's OK though, because he'll...... on 14:15 - Oct 29 with 942 views
It's OK though, because he'll...... on 14:11 - Oct 29 by Bloots
...intersperse his bickering and belittling with a couple of "funny" posts.
What a character.
Time to crank up the ignore function. The trouble of course is a couple of them are so ubiquitous. Anyway I’ll give it a crack.
In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
I don't disagree with any of the points made..... on 12:47 - Oct 29 by StokieBlue
Is it possible to scaremonger about something that will cause ~60000 deaths in the UK this year? Almost certainly >16m deaths worldwide if we look at excess deaths data.
Which specific things to do think are scaremongering? I am interested to see how this "both sides" angle manifests itself.
SB
That will cause 60,000 deaths. As we are not scaremongering can you show your working out/extrapolation here please?
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
You inferred that I was racist..... on 14:14 - Oct 29 by Bloots
....before you sloped off last time, based purely on the fact that I hadn't joined in with the daily/hourly "Paz pile ons".
You are doing exactly the same thing again......if only you had a clue what you were talking about.
Just to reiterate, SB asked me a specific question that I answered.
I merely stated that it was quite funny how you took aim at those taking issue with Paz's trolling instead of Paz himself. And here you are giving more weight to those downplaying covid and taking issue with those pointing out the dangers.
Funny, innit.
Dear old footers KC - Private Counsel to Big Farmer - Liberator of Vichy TWTD
You inferred that I was racist..... on 14:20 - Oct 29 by footers
I merely stated that it was quite funny how you took aim at those taking issue with Paz's trolling instead of Paz himself. And here you are giving more weight to those downplaying covid and taking issue with those pointing out the dangers.
Funny, innit.
....."giving weight to those that downplay covid" and noting when people are stating untruths.
Point me in the direction of where I've done the former.
Go on......
Seems like you just don't like people disagreeing with you.
"The sooner he comes back the better, this place has been a disaster without him" - TWTD User (July 2025)
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I don't disagree with any of the points made..... on 14:26 - Oct 29 with 883 views
I don't disagree with any of the points made..... on 14:17 - Oct 29 by BanksterDebtSlave
That will cause 60,000 deaths. As we are not scaremongering can you show your working out/extrapolation here please?
Deaths have been constant between around 100 and 250 for a few months now. We are heading into winter which will see that maintained or possibly increased if things go badly and immunity starts to wane after 3 months as some studies are starting to show.
So without doing anything fancy, if we simply extrapolate linearly using an approximately media figure of 150 deaths a day (which is probably about right or possibly a bit low if extrapolated over the whole year given the bad start to the year).
365 days * 150 = ~55000 deaths.
I haven't found the exact number for 2021 but this seems a reasonable extrapolation to take.
I think the issue is that when people see a "small" number of deaths each day it doesn't really register in their consciousness. However if you then scale that up into an approximate annualised figure the number becomes much more real and focuses peoples attention as it has done with you.
If someone was taking an unkind view they could say this is entirely by government design.
SB
Edit: I will agree that in my original post I should have put "could" not "will", slip of thinking there.
[Post edited 29 Oct 2021 14:28]
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It's OK though, because he'll...... on 14:30 - Oct 29 with 854 views
I don't disagree with any of the points made..... on 14:26 - Oct 29 by StokieBlue
Deaths have been constant between around 100 and 250 for a few months now. We are heading into winter which will see that maintained or possibly increased if things go badly and immunity starts to wane after 3 months as some studies are starting to show.
So without doing anything fancy, if we simply extrapolate linearly using an approximately media figure of 150 deaths a day (which is probably about right or possibly a bit low if extrapolated over the whole year given the bad start to the year).
365 days * 150 = ~55000 deaths.
I haven't found the exact number for 2021 but this seems a reasonable extrapolation to take.
I think the issue is that when people see a "small" number of deaths each day it doesn't really register in their consciousness. However if you then scale that up into an approximate annualised figure the number becomes much more real and focuses peoples attention as it has done with you.
If someone was taking an unkind view they could say this is entirely by government design.
SB
Edit: I will agree that in my original post I should have put "could" not "will", slip of thinking there.
[Post edited 29 Oct 2021 14:28]
So you made it up then, no seasonal dip next Summer or such. Thanks for clarifying. Refreshing to see that you are indeed as human as the rest of us at making 'facts' fit perception.
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Herd immunity from covid on 10:25 - Oct 29 by Nthsuffolkblue
So you post because you like arguing?
If you don't believe anyone's actions are impacted by what they believe and that what you say/post impacts on what they believe, why do you bother posting?
In my mind, the point of debate is to shape my own and influence others' opinions. However, you may be right and, at times with posters like you and Diggers it does seem utterly pointless.
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