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London commuters.... 08:32 - Oct 17 with 6440 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

.....stressy lot aren't they?

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/extinction-rebellion-tube-disruption-l

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London commuters.... on 09:48 - Oct 18 with 772 viewsfooters

London commuters.... on 09:35 - Oct 18 by giant_ullaa

To me, your mockery at the end there shows you know you're wrong.

As I said yesterday, they punched down. I know you say that doesn't matter because you don't need or want consent of the people in this battle, but that supercilious attitude will be the campaigns undoing if its not careful


I've said that their inconvenience is regrettable, but unfortunately that's a price you have to pay in order to keep stories like this in the news agenda. I was inconvenienced too.

But seriously, if the real issue is with people being late and fined, that is a problem for their employers and not the fault of XR. Last week half the trains from my station were cancelled due to a signal failure. What happens when people are late because of that? Where's all this anger then?

Again, we're talking about a handful of people on one day. Just to keep things in perspective. The vast, vast majority of Londoners were completely unaffected, so it seems quite odd to focus on this small group.

"We need a man in charge of boys, they wont like it up em, but they'd rather it be coming from their gaffer than those broom wrangling wannabes in league 1."
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London commuters.... on 09:52 - Oct 18 with 756 viewsStokieBlue

London commuters.... on 09:15 - Oct 18 by bluelagos

What does Bankster's location and/or job have to do with it?

The argument is that we are facing a climate emergency. Peaceful direct action was met with violent reaction. Of course commuters were p*sssd off, but that is a job for the police not the public to address.

For what it's worth, I am with the Xr protesters who felt targeting an environmentally form of transport is counter productive. If you want to target the ciry (or say BP) target them driectly, not via a tube that is heading to Canary Warfe.


It has rather a lot to do with it. If you follow the entire thread (and even the title) he's framed it all in regards to location.

Everyone acknowledges they have a very good point. It's easy however to disregard any concerns (which he continually has done) when absolutely nothing they do affects him directly.

He can sit on a high horse, say it's tough luck for commuters and tough if people don't get paid that day whilst blaming other things like contracts (which is a valid but separate point) whilst ignoring the reality of peoples lives.

So location and work was entirely framed by him.

SB

“You may not feel outstandingly robust, but if you are an average-sized adult you will contain within your modest frame no less than 7 X 10^18 joules of potential energy—enough to explode with the force of thirty very large hydrogen bombs, assuming you knew how to liberate it and really wished to make a point."

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London commuters.... on 09:54 - Oct 18 with 754 viewsHerbivore

London commuters.... on 09:35 - Oct 18 by BanksterDebtSlave

What did you down vote about my guardian comment then?


If you read the whole thing at no point did they condone violence towards the protesters.

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London commuters.... on 10:15 - Oct 18 with 729 viewsDanTheMan

Not sure if this has been discussed but I get emails from XR as I donated once and they explained what had happened and it reads like most people in their movement were against it but it went ahead anyway.

Relevant part below:

Whatever your thoughts on the action, this footage was highly distressing to watch - and must have been much more so for anyone present in person.

It’s important to acknowledge that the distress did not start with the footage: this action had been announced on Tuesday, and was received with overwhelming opposition and consternation from those in our movement, both regarding the nature, location, and timing of the action. This concern was communicated to the planners of the action – a very small group, which did not participate in ‘national level’ Rebellion decision-making bodies. They issued this statement in response ( https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8TjvThS0cxubHByd2tHajZ6ak1KM0ROeE1oa0JrNlFFOFh

Some of those involved in the planning, on hearing the feedback, chose to step back from the action; but some of those involved continued and ultimately carried it out.

XR’s current organising ethos is that anyone can carry out any action in the name of XR, provided it doesn’t conflict with our ten principles and values. Following two similarly controversial proposals in April and over summer, the process for ‘national’ actions has been revised such that proposals must pass through scrutiny from other teams before going ahead.

But, as stated, the group involved in today’s action was operating at the grassroots level; they received the feedback from the wider movement and made their own decision.

In short: very few people in XR wanted this to happen, but the ‘post-consensus’ organisational model which we currently employ is such that it happened all the same.

Our fifth value is “that we value reflecting and learning”. ‘Post consensus’ organising is undoubtedly an important part of what has made us such a dynamic, fast-growing and vibrant movement. On the other hand, there are clearly serious flaws in a system that gives rise to pain such as many of us feel today.

This movement is made up of people who pour their energy and hopes into this cause and who have been left feeling disrespected, powerless and unheard. It’s clear we need to take serious time to learn from what went wrong.

As we begin to think about why we are where we are, it’s vital to remember the bigger picture. As with earlier controversial proposals, this action was conceived and carried out by incredibly courageous individuals, willing to face prison sentences, and motivated by the same deep fear and profound love that drives so many of us to do what we do.

It’s no less through love and fear, and due to the same conditions of oppression that we face ourselves, that we saw such a disturbing reaction from some of those on the platform at Canning Town. These were commuters trying to get to work so they can support their loved ones. We recognise that disruption at Canning Town affected those already suffering the hardships of a toxic system - those who are the most at risk from the effects of climate and ecological collapse.

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London commuters.... on 10:26 - Oct 18 with 708 viewsStokieBlue

London commuters.... on 10:15 - Oct 18 by DanTheMan

Not sure if this has been discussed but I get emails from XR as I donated once and they explained what had happened and it reads like most people in their movement were against it but it went ahead anyway.

Relevant part below:

Whatever your thoughts on the action, this footage was highly distressing to watch - and must have been much more so for anyone present in person.

It’s important to acknowledge that the distress did not start with the footage: this action had been announced on Tuesday, and was received with overwhelming opposition and consternation from those in our movement, both regarding the nature, location, and timing of the action. This concern was communicated to the planners of the action – a very small group, which did not participate in ‘national level’ Rebellion decision-making bodies. They issued this statement in response ( https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8TjvThS0cxubHByd2tHajZ6ak1KM0ROeE1oa0JrNlFFOFh

Some of those involved in the planning, on hearing the feedback, chose to step back from the action; but some of those involved continued and ultimately carried it out.

XR’s current organising ethos is that anyone can carry out any action in the name of XR, provided it doesn’t conflict with our ten principles and values. Following two similarly controversial proposals in April and over summer, the process for ‘national’ actions has been revised such that proposals must pass through scrutiny from other teams before going ahead.

But, as stated, the group involved in today’s action was operating at the grassroots level; they received the feedback from the wider movement and made their own decision.

In short: very few people in XR wanted this to happen, but the ‘post-consensus’ organisational model which we currently employ is such that it happened all the same.

Our fifth value is “that we value reflecting and learning”. ‘Post consensus’ organising is undoubtedly an important part of what has made us such a dynamic, fast-growing and vibrant movement. On the other hand, there are clearly serious flaws in a system that gives rise to pain such as many of us feel today.

This movement is made up of people who pour their energy and hopes into this cause and who have been left feeling disrespected, powerless and unheard. It’s clear we need to take serious time to learn from what went wrong.

As we begin to think about why we are where we are, it’s vital to remember the bigger picture. As with earlier controversial proposals, this action was conceived and carried out by incredibly courageous individuals, willing to face prison sentences, and motivated by the same deep fear and profound love that drives so many of us to do what we do.

It’s no less through love and fear, and due to the same conditions of oppression that we face ourselves, that we saw such a disturbing reaction from some of those on the platform at Canning Town. These were commuters trying to get to work so they can support their loved ones. We recognise that disruption at Canning Town affected those already suffering the hardships of a toxic system - those who are the most at risk from the effects of climate and ecological collapse.


That's a fair statement - I think most people know it wasn't fully sanctioned.

However, 28% of their membership wanted to hit the London transport infrastructure in their last vote which isn't an insignificant amount.

SB

“You may not feel outstandingly robust, but if you are an average-sized adult you will contain within your modest frame no less than 7 X 10^18 joules of potential energy—enough to explode with the force of thirty very large hydrogen bombs, assuming you knew how to liberate it and really wished to make a point."

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London commuters.... on 10:28 - Oct 18 with 708 viewsartsbossbeard

London commuters.... on 10:15 - Oct 18 by DanTheMan

Not sure if this has been discussed but I get emails from XR as I donated once and they explained what had happened and it reads like most people in their movement were against it but it went ahead anyway.

Relevant part below:

Whatever your thoughts on the action, this footage was highly distressing to watch - and must have been much more so for anyone present in person.

It’s important to acknowledge that the distress did not start with the footage: this action had been announced on Tuesday, and was received with overwhelming opposition and consternation from those in our movement, both regarding the nature, location, and timing of the action. This concern was communicated to the planners of the action – a very small group, which did not participate in ‘national level’ Rebellion decision-making bodies. They issued this statement in response ( https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8TjvThS0cxubHByd2tHajZ6ak1KM0ROeE1oa0JrNlFFOFh

Some of those involved in the planning, on hearing the feedback, chose to step back from the action; but some of those involved continued and ultimately carried it out.

XR’s current organising ethos is that anyone can carry out any action in the name of XR, provided it doesn’t conflict with our ten principles and values. Following two similarly controversial proposals in April and over summer, the process for ‘national’ actions has been revised such that proposals must pass through scrutiny from other teams before going ahead.

But, as stated, the group involved in today’s action was operating at the grassroots level; they received the feedback from the wider movement and made their own decision.

In short: very few people in XR wanted this to happen, but the ‘post-consensus’ organisational model which we currently employ is such that it happened all the same.

Our fifth value is “that we value reflecting and learning”. ‘Post consensus’ organising is undoubtedly an important part of what has made us such a dynamic, fast-growing and vibrant movement. On the other hand, there are clearly serious flaws in a system that gives rise to pain such as many of us feel today.

This movement is made up of people who pour their energy and hopes into this cause and who have been left feeling disrespected, powerless and unheard. It’s clear we need to take serious time to learn from what went wrong.

As we begin to think about why we are where we are, it’s vital to remember the bigger picture. As with earlier controversial proposals, this action was conceived and carried out by incredibly courageous individuals, willing to face prison sentences, and motivated by the same deep fear and profound love that drives so many of us to do what we do.

It’s no less through love and fear, and due to the same conditions of oppression that we face ourselves, that we saw such a disturbing reaction from some of those on the platform at Canning Town. These were commuters trying to get to work so they can support their loved ones. We recognise that disruption at Canning Town affected those already suffering the hardships of a toxic system - those who are the most at risk from the effects of climate and ecological collapse.


Cheers for sharing, Dan.

V interesting stuff. I'm glad the majority could see how counter productive such a measure is/was.

Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing.
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London commuters.... on 10:32 - Oct 18 with 691 viewsHerbivore

London commuters.... on 10:15 - Oct 18 by DanTheMan

Not sure if this has been discussed but I get emails from XR as I donated once and they explained what had happened and it reads like most people in their movement were against it but it went ahead anyway.

Relevant part below:

Whatever your thoughts on the action, this footage was highly distressing to watch - and must have been much more so for anyone present in person.

It’s important to acknowledge that the distress did not start with the footage: this action had been announced on Tuesday, and was received with overwhelming opposition and consternation from those in our movement, both regarding the nature, location, and timing of the action. This concern was communicated to the planners of the action – a very small group, which did not participate in ‘national level’ Rebellion decision-making bodies. They issued this statement in response ( https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8TjvThS0cxubHByd2tHajZ6ak1KM0ROeE1oa0JrNlFFOFh

Some of those involved in the planning, on hearing the feedback, chose to step back from the action; but some of those involved continued and ultimately carried it out.

XR’s current organising ethos is that anyone can carry out any action in the name of XR, provided it doesn’t conflict with our ten principles and values. Following two similarly controversial proposals in April and over summer, the process for ‘national’ actions has been revised such that proposals must pass through scrutiny from other teams before going ahead.

But, as stated, the group involved in today’s action was operating at the grassroots level; they received the feedback from the wider movement and made their own decision.

In short: very few people in XR wanted this to happen, but the ‘post-consensus’ organisational model which we currently employ is such that it happened all the same.

Our fifth value is “that we value reflecting and learning”. ‘Post consensus’ organising is undoubtedly an important part of what has made us such a dynamic, fast-growing and vibrant movement. On the other hand, there are clearly serious flaws in a system that gives rise to pain such as many of us feel today.

This movement is made up of people who pour their energy and hopes into this cause and who have been left feeling disrespected, powerless and unheard. It’s clear we need to take serious time to learn from what went wrong.

As we begin to think about why we are where we are, it’s vital to remember the bigger picture. As with earlier controversial proposals, this action was conceived and carried out by incredibly courageous individuals, willing to face prison sentences, and motivated by the same deep fear and profound love that drives so many of us to do what we do.

It’s no less through love and fear, and due to the same conditions of oppression that we face ourselves, that we saw such a disturbing reaction from some of those on the platform at Canning Town. These were commuters trying to get to work so they can support their loved ones. We recognise that disruption at Canning Town affected those already suffering the hardships of a toxic system - those who are the most at risk from the effects of climate and ecological collapse.


That's a very fair response. I hope it gets publicised widely.

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London commuters.... on 10:39 - Oct 18 with 680 viewsitfcjoe

London commuters.... on 07:39 - Oct 18 by StokieBlue

This is a pretty good summary of yesterday's events and the reasons for some of the anger and confrontations. Might be worth considering some of them Debtster rather than dismissing it with a hand wave as just some unconvinced city types.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/17/extinction-rebellion-canni

SB


"But nowadays more of us are middle class, and middle-class self-interest has also found its way into progressive politics. There was always a section of the left that viewed the working class in purely instrumental terms. They were a weapon to be wielded against the bourgeoisie rather than human beings who required liberation. These types of activists were motivated more by a detestation of others than by any real sympathy with the poor."

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London commuters.... on 11:21 - Oct 18 with 639 viewslowhouseblue

London commuters.... on 10:39 - Oct 18 by itfcjoe

"But nowadays more of us are middle class, and middle-class self-interest has also found its way into progressive politics. There was always a section of the left that viewed the working class in purely instrumental terms. They were a weapon to be wielded against the bourgeoisie rather than human beings who required liberation. These types of activists were motivated more by a detestation of others than by any real sympathy with the poor."


good quote. the view of much of the 'left' on the working class has been made clear in the brexit fiasco - thicky, racist oiks, the lot of them.

And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show

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London commuters.... on 11:39 - Oct 18 with 609 viewsHerbivore

London commuters.... on 11:21 - Oct 18 by lowhouseblue

good quote. the view of much of the 'left' on the working class has been made clear in the brexit fiasco - thicky, racist oiks, the lot of them.


No, that's our view of old people. It was mainly old people that voted Brexit.

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London commuters.... on 11:40 - Oct 18 with 607 viewslowhouseblue

London commuters.... on 11:39 - Oct 18 by Herbivore

No, that's our view of old people. It was mainly old people that voted Brexit.


17.4 million 'old poeple'. ok then.

And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show

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London commuters.... on 11:45 - Oct 18 with 591 viewsfooters

London commuters.... on 11:40 - Oct 18 by lowhouseblue

17.4 million 'old poeple'. ok then.


You think xenophobia and having a limited understanding of our government and the EU weren't large contributing factors to the leave vote? Interesting take.

"We need a man in charge of boys, they wont like it up em, but they'd rather it be coming from their gaffer than those broom wrangling wannabes in league 1."
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London commuters.... on 11:48 - Oct 18 with 581 viewsartsbossbeard

London commuters.... on 11:21 - Oct 18 by lowhouseblue

good quote. the view of much of the 'left' on the working class has been made clear in the brexit fiasco - thicky, racist oiks, the lot of them.


This isn't a left thing.

Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing.
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London commuters.... on 11:57 - Oct 18 with 555 viewsC_HealyIsAPleasure

London commuters.... on 10:39 - Oct 18 by itfcjoe

"But nowadays more of us are middle class, and middle-class self-interest has also found its way into progressive politics. There was always a section of the left that viewed the working class in purely instrumental terms. They were a weapon to be wielded against the bourgeoisie rather than human beings who required liberation. These types of activists were motivated more by a detestation of others than by any real sympathy with the poor."


Excellent quote

Shining example of exactly that type of person in this thread too

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London commuters.... on 11:58 - Oct 18 with 553 viewsitfcjoe

London commuters.... on 11:48 - Oct 18 by artsbossbeard

This isn't a left thing.


It's more that the left claim to be the representatives of the working class without understanding or respecting them

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London commuters.... on 12:03 - Oct 18 with 540 viewsfooters

London commuters.... on 11:57 - Oct 18 by C_HealyIsAPleasure

Excellent quote

Shining example of exactly that type of person in this thread too


No need to be shy! Don't hate, just appreciate ;)


"We need a man in charge of boys, they wont like it up em, but they'd rather it be coming from their gaffer than those broom wrangling wannabes in league 1."
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London commuters.... on 12:06 - Oct 18 with 533 viewsChurchman

London commuters.... on 11:45 - Oct 18 by footers

You think xenophobia and having a limited understanding of our government and the EU weren't large contributing factors to the leave vote? Interesting take.


People voted leave, remain or not at all for a variety of reasons. Fear, xenophobia, stupidity, laziness, knowledge, personal gain, blind or real optimism, protest, rubbish written on a bus, unfounded threats, you name it. Ask a binary question on a complex, unknown subject dressed up in lies on all sides and that’s the result.

Back to this thread, I think there is a real danger of escalating violence. People have a right to protest, but not to stop people in their daily lives and indeed earning a living. Commuting is not something anyone does for fun. I know having had to do it for a good few years. It is costly, time consuming, cramped and unpleasant. But it has to be done. Not everyone the luxury of peddling around the beautiful Suffolk countryside for a living or even working at home. I do not condone giving those people a kicking, but I understand the commuters frustration. ‘A little bit of inconvenience/time’ misses the point. That the trains and buses in London are mostly electric just adds to it.
[Post edited 18 Oct 12:19]
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London commuters.... on 12:11 - Oct 18 with 518 viewsWeWereZombies

London commuters.... on 11:39 - Oct 18 by Herbivore

No, that's our view of old people. It was mainly old people that voted Brexit.


You unthinking teenager, you. You just whooshed Ryorry...

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London commuters.... on 12:11 - Oct 18 with 519 viewsC_HealyIsAPleasure

London commuters.... on 12:03 - Oct 18 by footers

No need to be shy! Don't hate, just appreciate ;)



Somewhat odd to be so proud of being a pr*ck to the less fortunate, but whatever gets you off I guess

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London commuters.... on 12:15 - Oct 18 with 507 viewsitfcjoe

London commuters.... on 11:57 - Oct 18 by C_HealyIsAPleasure

Excellent quote

Shining example of exactly that type of person in this thread too


This is the rest of the quote....

"Nowadays, they are less likely to be seen on a picket line than at a demonstration outside the Israeli Embassy. The deserving poor are over there – in Cuba, in Palestine, or in another exotic-seeming land. Thus there is much less interest in class politics, and this left sits amicably alongside a middle-class liberalism that does as liberalism does – trembles with a slight terror at the prospect of genuine equality between the classes."

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London commuters.... on 12:17 - Oct 18 with 502 viewsfooters

London commuters.... on 12:11 - Oct 18 by C_HealyIsAPleasure

Somewhat odd to be so proud of being a pr*ck to the less fortunate, but whatever gets you off I guess


That's your interpretation of my personal politics and background. Quite telling.

Weird that the same respect isn't shown the other way too, innit? Liberal elite, university educated, London w@nkers, and all that?

You might be into infantilising the working class, but I'm not. More than aware that they can read, think and make their own decisions without being told what to think about XR or anything else. Nice that you've made yourself their representative tho.

"We need a man in charge of boys, they wont like it up em, but they'd rather it be coming from their gaffer than those broom wrangling wannabes in league 1."
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London commuters.... on 12:25 - Oct 18 with 477 viewsC_HealyIsAPleasure

London commuters.... on 12:17 - Oct 18 by footers

That's your interpretation of my personal politics and background. Quite telling.

Weird that the same respect isn't shown the other way too, innit? Liberal elite, university educated, London w@nkers, and all that?

You might be into infantilising the working class, but I'm not. More than aware that they can read, think and make their own decisions without being told what to think about XR or anything else. Nice that you've made yourself their representative tho.


I haven’t infantilised anyone, nor have I attacked any of the groups you mention, but nice try

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London commuters.... on 12:39 - Oct 18 with 461 viewslowhouseblue

London commuters.... on 11:45 - Oct 18 by footers

You think xenophobia and having a limited understanding of our government and the EU weren't large contributing factors to the leave vote? Interesting take.


my take is that it's down to people not having the same view as you. scary isn't it.

And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show

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London commuters.... on 12:50 - Oct 18 with 446 viewsHerbivore

London commuters.... on 11:40 - Oct 18 by lowhouseblue

17.4 million 'old poeple'. ok then.


Almost as silly and patronising as your generalisation of Brexit being a purely working class vote I'd say.
[Post edited 18 Oct 12:50]

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London commuters.... on 09:16 - Oct 19 with 307 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

London commuters.... on 09:26 - Oct 18 by bluelagos

I thought the section 14 used to clear Trafalgar Sq was incredibly short sighted. I know it was judicially reviewed yesterday, do you know the outcome?


In further developments.....
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/oct/19/police-seek-tougher-powers-a
.....smell the freedom in the air....but at least we aren't Hong Kong, right!

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