| Derby takeover collapsing 08:23 - Jun 8 with 8061 views | le2blue |
Sounds like the guy doesn't have the funds to conclude the deal and it will collapse today. |  | | |  |
| Derby takeover collapsing on 10:24 - Jun 8 with 1222 views | wkj |
| Derby takeover collapsing on 10:21 - Jun 8 by Kieran_Knows |
I'm so far out of the loop of this, but has Mel Morris just simply walked away because he can't be bothered with it anymore ... or has he run out of funds to run them anymore? |
You can't run out of something you really didn't have in the first place RE: Morris' operating capital. |  |
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| Derby takeover collapsing on 10:24 - Jun 8 with 1218 views | STYG |
| Derby takeover collapsing on 09:57 - Jun 8 by MattinLondon |
You really think that if Derby go bust other clubs will think to themselves ‘oh dear, we better be more financially prudent’.
The only way things will change in terms of debt culture within football is if all of the major banks call in the loans, limits overdrafts of the major PL clubs. But that won’t happen. |
The blame has to largely be with the FA, PL and EFL for the years of complete and utter neglect in regulating finances. This has been coming for some time.
I feel for Derby fans, but equally you cannot have a club doing what they have done for so many years, very close to cheating the system, getting into the PL and becoming self-sustaining and not punish the club - even when it's the case those who did the damage have moved on.
It's very simple for the authorities to ensure that clubs are run properly and if they are not then they are immediately hit with points deductions, demoted and so on. Look how quick action was taken against Chelsea with government intervention in the case of war. Clubs should be able to publish annual accounts promptly and evidence why they are on track to be within budgets and framework over each season and if not those in charge are punished whilst at the club.
There should be routes for providers to go to the FA if their invoices are not settled within 30 days and for them to intervene to ensure the club sorts that out immediately rather than spending money elsewhere they may not have if they'd paid what they'd owed. Clauses can be put into contracts protecting players and ensure they can move under circumstances if the club can't pay them. You can guarantee they'll budget for players wages then if they will lose a player worth a lot of money.
They also need to give fans greater power to have a seat at the table and a percentage of ownership so that decisions made by these people that come in to clubs they have no interest in other than making money with are making those decisions with the clubs long term interests alongside their own objectives, not working against those for their own gain.
What's to stop someone currently buying a club for £20m and after a season of success selling the entire playing squad for £30m and walking away with that cash and leaving the club with the youth team? There should be minimum procedures in place that major decisions have to be noted to the fans group (even if they have no power to stop them) so at least the group can then raise concerns to an independent panel who then look themselves at whether all seems to be in the best interests of the club as a community asset.
At the moment the owners do what they want and can create a Bury out of any club they own. There is all sorts the authorities can do but they have absolutely no interest in reigning in all the clubs as a collective because they only care about the money the PL generates and they call the shots.
There should be standard measures for every EFL club downwards even then and massive sanctions for clubs once they drop into the EFL if they have not played ball whilst in the PL. [Post edited 8 Jun 2022 10:33]
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| Derby takeover collapsing on 10:25 - Jun 8 with 1217 views | ITFC_Forever |
| Derby takeover collapsing on 10:17 - Jun 8 by MattinLondon |
Why would they think that? From their point of view the PL earns the money so why share it with tinpot clubs in the EFL? If clubs outside the top bubble go bust then in their minds it’ll mean more people will support a PL club. |
That's excactly what they will think.
But football (sport) isn't like any other business - part of the attraction of sport is the jeopardy, and to have that, you need a relatively even playing-field, and to do that, the wealth needs to be vaguely fairly distributed.
Same argument as why outsiders would have been offended at football clubs claiming furlough during Covid - football industry has plenty of money, it's no-one else's fault this isn't fairly distributed. |  |
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| Derby takeover collapsing on 10:25 - Jun 8 with 1219 views | Parky |
Lol. | | | |
| Derby takeover collapsing on 10:29 - Jun 8 with 1188 views | itfcjoe |
| Derby takeover collapsing on 08:57 - Jun 8 by ITFC_Forever |
For the good of football, a "big" club needs to go bust... a disaster for the fans of that club though.
Derby could be the sacrificial rams. |
Why? Nothing would change it would just rip the heart out of a community. |  |
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| Derby takeover collapsing on 10:32 - Jun 8 with 1159 views | wkj |
| Derby takeover collapsing on 10:29 - Jun 8 by itfcjoe |
Why? Nothing would change it would just rip the heart out of a community. |
That has already been achieved by Mel Morris. If the community has the passion, they will support the phoenix from the ashes when a new iteration of Derby County is formed. | |
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| Derby takeover collapsing on 10:33 - Jun 8 with 1159 views | ITFC_Forever |
| Derby takeover collapsing on 10:29 - Jun 8 by itfcjoe |
Why? Nothing would change it would just rip the heart out of a community. |
If a club going bust isn't enough of a wake up call to other clubs to live withing their means, then they get what they deserve.
And it was a set up to an (a not so) amazing pun. [Post edited 8 Jun 2022 10:33]
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| Derby takeover collapsing on 10:35 - Jun 8 with 1140 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Derby takeover collapsing on 10:29 - Jun 8 by itfcjoe |
Why? Nothing would change it would just rip the heart out of a community. |
If Burnley and Derby both go the most likely response from PL will be to become a closed shop, franchise football here we come. |  |
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| Derby takeover collapsing on 10:36 - Jun 8 with 1139 views | STYG |
| Derby takeover collapsing on 10:29 - Jun 8 by itfcjoe |
Why? Nothing would change it would just rip the heart out of a community. |
You're right. It probably won't change a thing.
But the best chance of any change is with 30,000 fans going beserk at the authorities and a load of high profile people like Rooney, Lampard and so on speaking out, not 3,000 from Bury or 1,500 from Macclesfield. | | | |
| Derby takeover collapsing on 10:44 - Jun 8 with 1103 views | jayessess |
| Derby takeover collapsing on 10:29 - Jun 8 by itfcjoe |
Why? Nothing would change it would just rip the heart out of a community. |
I dunno, if it goes bust they'll presumably found a phoenix club, won't they? Wimbledon, Portsmouth, Wrexham all seem to be doing alright as communities. Bury will be back playing professional football from next season too. |  |
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| Derby takeover collapsing on 10:48 - Jun 8 with 1092 views | Mookamoo |
| Derby takeover collapsing on 10:35 - Jun 8 by Pinewoodblue |
If Burnley and Derby both go the most likely response from PL will be to become a closed shop, franchise football here we come. |
The PL know they have to do something or risk legislation and more involvement than they would like with the Department for Digital, Culture, Media & (for some reason) Sport. It's a very topic for any politician to get vocal about to rally cross party support. The PL do just enough to ward this off at the moment, but if Derby and Burley go under that will shift that conversation. |  | | |
| Derby takeover collapsing on 10:50 - Jun 8 with 1086 views | itfcjoe |
| Derby takeover collapsing on 10:33 - Jun 8 by ITFC_Forever |
If a club going bust isn't enough of a wake up call to other clubs to live withing their means, then they get what they deserve.
And it was a set up to an (a not so) amazing pun. [Post edited 8 Jun 2022 10:33]
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One of the biggest clubs in Britain got put out of business and given a triple relegation and it didn't change any behaviours - whilst the prize exists people will chase it. | |
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| Derby takeover collapsing on 10:58 - Jun 8 with 1042 views | wkj |
| Derby takeover collapsing on 10:50 - Jun 8 by itfcjoe |
One of the biggest clubs in Britain got put out of business and given a triple relegation and it didn't change any behaviours - whilst the prize exists people will chase it. |
Then it needs to be done more and more until the message to sinks in. Derby's actions have damaged a lot of other teams and they should be made to suffer the consequences. As for the lure of the prize? Well, gamblers gonna gamble - if they mortgage their house to bet it all on black, sentiment shouldn't keep them in their house when the ball lands on red. | |
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| Derby takeover collapsing on 11:00 - Jun 8 with 1044 views | itfcjoe |
| Derby takeover collapsing on 10:58 - Jun 8 by wkj |
Then it needs to be done more and more until the message to sinks in. Derby's actions have damaged a lot of other teams and they should be made to suffer the consequences. As for the lure of the prize? Well, gamblers gonna gamble - if they mortgage their house to bet it all on black, sentiment shouldn't keep them in their house when the ball lands on red. |
Well they are going from a top Championship side, to one it mountains of debt that could start a 3rd tier season with a points deduction - so there clearly is a punishment for what they have done. | |
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| Derby takeover collapsing on 11:03 - Jun 8 with 1015 views | Hipsterectomy |
Is the guy a Forest fan? Why would you try and buy something you don't have money for, promise to pay bills you can't and keep the club from looking at other buyers to save them as they've agreed for you to buy the club. Their debt is constantly rising as well with every week this isn't completed |  |
| Walter Smith's Barmy Army |
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| Derby takeover collapsing on 11:03 - Jun 8 with 1011 views | wkj |
| Derby takeover collapsing on 11:00 - Jun 8 by itfcjoe |
Well they are going from a top Championship side, to one it mountains of debt that could start a 3rd tier season with a points deduction - so there clearly is a punishment for what they have done. |
Well, that is the best-case scenario for them, but if they have mountains of debt and no one is there to pick up the tab, then the conclusion is that they can not continue. That is where they are now, they have been in administration for a very generous amount of time, the longer they continue like this the deeper the debt is going to get - so, the creditors really need to sh*t or get off the pot. | |
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| Derby takeover collapsing on 11:07 - Jun 8 with 999 views | jayessess |
| Derby takeover collapsing on 10:58 - Jun 8 by wkj |
Then it needs to be done more and more until the message to sinks in. Derby's actions have damaged a lot of other teams and they should be made to suffer the consequences. As for the lure of the prize? Well, gamblers gonna gamble - if they mortgage their house to bet it all on black, sentiment shouldn't keep them in their house when the ball lands on red. |
Not sure we're in much of a position to get on our high horse about "overspending" really. We're using outside investment to distort our competitiveness in our division, so were Derby. The only difference is that GC20 seem to be good for it and Mel Morris wasn't but the advantage is just the same. | |
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| Derby takeover collapsing on 11:08 - Jun 8 with 991 views | MattinLondon |
| Derby takeover collapsing on 10:25 - Jun 8 by ITFC_Forever |
That's excactly what they will think.
But football (sport) isn't like any other business - part of the attraction of sport is the jeopardy, and to have that, you need a relatively even playing-field, and to do that, the wealth needs to be vaguely fairly distributed.
Same argument as why outsiders would have been offended at football clubs claiming furlough during Covid - football industry has plenty of money, it's no-one else's fault this isn't fairly distributed. |
There is jeopardy though. Leeds, Pompey, Sheff W, Ipswich etc etc have all got it massively wrong off the pitch despite some success on it and have ended up in L1. Same with Coventry, Leicester and Man City (their fans don’t mention this anymore).
And even was there ever a level, or almost level, playing-field in football? |  | | |
| Derby takeover collapsing on 11:10 - Jun 8 with 990 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
| Derby takeover collapsing on 10:13 - Jun 8 by itfc_bucks |
I'm really unbothered by this.
I don't *want* a club to go to the wall, but think one probably ought to and given how obnoxious some of their fans were while they were trying to buy their way out of the Championship, I really struggle to muster huge amounts of empathy. |
And if one were to then not too many better options than Derby, we'd all like it to be the green and yellow mob but if not Derby would be up there |  |
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| Derby takeover collapsing on 11:11 - Jun 8 with 984 views | wkj |
| Derby takeover collapsing on 11:07 - Jun 8 by jayessess |
Not sure we're in much of a position to get on our high horse about "overspending" really. We're using outside investment to distort our competitiveness in our division, so were Derby. The only difference is that GC20 seem to be good for it and Mel Morris wasn't but the advantage is just the same. |
Depends on what you consider overspending. My definition of overspending is when you make deals you can't sustain - touch wood, GC20 seem to have a sustainable mindset. If GC20 turns into a Mel Morris nightmare, it won't change my mindset either - it will hurt and cause a lot of anger and I will feel like a helpless victim, but I won't be defending the position the club is in either. [Post edited 8 Jun 2022 11:11]
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| Derby takeover collapsing on 11:12 - Jun 8 with 979 views | Freddies_Ears |
| Derby takeover collapsing on 08:47 - Jun 8 by Guthrum |
It's very reminiscent of the Portsmouth saga. A string of shady "businessmen" who turned out to have no money, if they existed at all*.
* There was one bloke whom nobody seemed sure was actually real. |
As 'Arry Redknapp put it, "the only Arab I ever met who didn't own a string of oil wells" | | | |
| Derby takeover collapsing on 11:12 - Jun 8 with 970 views | ITFC_Forever |
| Derby takeover collapsing on 11:08 - Jun 8 by MattinLondon |
There is jeopardy though. Leeds, Pompey, Sheff W, Ipswich etc etc have all got it massively wrong off the pitch despite some success on it and have ended up in L1. Same with Coventry, Leicester and Man City (their fans don’t mention this anymore).
And even was there ever a level, or almost level, playing-field in football? |
It was a more level playing field than it is now - when the likes of Leeds, Pompey, Sheff W and us get it right, we could challenge at the very top of the game.
When we get it wrong, we end up where we are.
Even since Leicester won the league, the top six have manipulated the rules even more so to load the dice in their favour. | |
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| Derby takeover collapsing on 11:14 - Jun 8 with 963 views | itfcjoe |
| Derby takeover collapsing on 11:03 - Jun 8 by wkj |
Well, that is the best-case scenario for them, but if they have mountains of debt and no one is there to pick up the tab, then the conclusion is that they can not continue. That is where they are now, they have been in administration for a very generous amount of time, the longer they continue like this the deeper the debt is going to get - so, the creditors really need to sh*t or get off the pot. |
If they don't get a buyer they'll just keep drifting down the league until they do go bankrupt.
The EFL have got to explore every possible avenue though as any football fan would expect them to do, but the hole they are in is so big that they could easily go pop - I certainly wouldn't want it to happen though | |
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| Derby takeover collapsing on 11:20 - Jun 8 with 925 views | wkj |
| Derby takeover collapsing on 11:14 - Jun 8 by itfcjoe |
If they don't get a buyer they'll just keep drifting down the league until they do go bankrupt.
The EFL have got to explore every possible avenue though as any football fan would expect them to do, but the hole they are in is so big that they could easily go pop - I certainly wouldn't want it to happen though |
What is the difference between declaring the club bankrupt now, vs then? They are approaching nearly 1 year in administration (September 22 2021) - That is a very generous time to be financially against the ropes. | |
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| Derby takeover collapsing on 11:21 - Jun 8 with 929 views | jayessess |
| Derby takeover collapsing on 11:11 - Jun 8 by wkj |
Depends on what you consider overspending. My definition of overspending is when you make deals you can't sustain - touch wood, GC20 seem to have a sustainable mindset. If GC20 turns into a Mel Morris nightmare, it won't change my mindset either - it will hurt and cause a lot of anger and I will feel like a helpless victim, but I won't be defending the position the club is in either. [Post edited 8 Jun 2022 11:11]
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We're obviously spending considerably more than we make in revenue. That's obviously not sustainable in the long term.
Even if it were sustainable it still distorts the competition in exactly the way you complained about up thread. We blow other clubs out of the water with our financial muscle, we hijack deals, we have an inflationary effect on fees and wages etc. In terms of fair competition for other clubs a Mel Morris is no different to a GC20. | |
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