| Looks like Simpson is leaving then 14:47 - Apr 21 with 7716 views | tractordownsouth |
At least 2 strikers must be incoming. [Post edited 21 Apr 2022 14:47]
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| Looks like Simpson is leaving then on 22:11 - Apr 21 with 1538 views | Mullet |
| Looks like Simpson is leaving then on 20:57 - Apr 21 by PhilTWTD |
Indeed, we'll get more money for him having taken the option. |
I get the rather impotent malice at the news, and the annoyance etc. I just hope we take Swindon or whoever over and completely rip them off. It'd be such a nice change for us. |  |
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| Looks like Simpson is leaving then on 22:32 - Apr 21 with 1481 views | reusersfreekicks |
| Looks like Simpson is leaving then on 17:03 - Apr 21 by LeoMuff |
Not a snowflakes chance in hell he ends up in league 2. Will be at worst a top league 1 but most likely Championship, think Hull , Cardiff and Barnsley were mentioned.
If he wanted to play regularly in league 1 or 2 he could go out on loan from us and get paid more at the same time, makes no sense. |
He really isn't that good |  | | |
| Looks like Simpson is leaving then on 07:59 - Apr 22 with 1389 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Looks like Simpson is leaving then on 20:57 - Apr 21 by PhilTWTD |
Indeed, we'll get more money for him having taken the option. |
I guess we are now in 'get as much money as we can' mode. What is he realistically worth? I struggle to see any club wanting to pay more than a couple of hundred thousand and wonder if we might chance our arm with a tribunal next summer.
I think Simpson and his agent have misjudged the situation because ultimately we hold the cards and could make the next 12 months very difficult for him should we choose to. [Post edited 22 Apr 2022 8:04]
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| Looks like Simpson is leaving then on 08:02 - Apr 22 with 1378 views | LeoMuff |
| Looks like Simpson is leaving then on 22:32 - Apr 21 by reusersfreekicks |
He really isn't that good |
Well, it appears somebody thinks he could be…. |  |
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| Looks like Simpson is leaving then on 08:21 - Apr 22 with 1338 views | ElephantintheRoom |
| Looks like Simpson is leaving then on 14:55 - Apr 21 by pointofblue |
Disappointing to see another young player out of the door. Wonder whether it would have been different had he been given first team chances after returning from Swindon. |
Like last season. And didn’t that go well.
So which of our barn door missers is heading for promotion elsewhere as the division’s top scorer? | |
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| Looks like Simpson is leaving then on 08:25 - Apr 22 with 1339 views | itfcjoe |
| Looks like Simpson is leaving then on 17:34 - Apr 21 by ITFCBlues |
What's your views on the academy situation here then Joe? Thinking about Dyers comments as well. Taking a back burner? Used more as a trading tool as such? |
It's hard to know, but I guess the proof of the pudding will be in the eating over the enxt couple of years.
It is very disappointing though to see Liam Gibbs leave last year, and now Tyreece Simpson going the same way when it seems that the biggest factor is us not being able to offer them the pathway through. Gibbs went to Norwich who have been much better run than us for years and the two teams I've heard linked with Simpson (Luton and Barnsley) are teams who have been very good recruiters over the last 3 or so seasons.
Dyer is right re pathways - academy wise in the league this season we have seen Woolfie play, Baggott and Dobra play one game and El Miz play 3 or 4 - if we were top of the league then it would be more understandable.
For whatever Ashton says, when you sign 21 senior players in a season you out so many blockers up to pathways and that needs to be sorted out over the next 18 months or so because we have talented kids coming through and if we can't give them a pathway then this will continue to happen - and as angry as people get with Simpson, they are directing it in the wrong place |  |
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| Looks like Simpson is leaving then on 08:31 - Apr 22 with 1305 views | ElephantintheRoom |
| Looks like Simpson is leaving then on 08:25 - Apr 22 by itfcjoe |
It's hard to know, but I guess the proof of the pudding will be in the eating over the enxt couple of years.
It is very disappointing though to see Liam Gibbs leave last year, and now Tyreece Simpson going the same way when it seems that the biggest factor is us not being able to offer them the pathway through. Gibbs went to Norwich who have been much better run than us for years and the two teams I've heard linked with Simpson (Luton and Barnsley) are teams who have been very good recruiters over the last 3 or so seasons.
Dyer is right re pathways - academy wise in the league this season we have seen Woolfie play, Baggott and Dobra play one game and El Miz play 3 or 4 - if we were top of the league then it would be more understandable.
For whatever Ashton says, when you sign 21 senior players in a season you out so many blockers up to pathways and that needs to be sorted out over the next 18 months or so because we have talented kids coming through and if we can't give them a pathway then this will continue to happen - and as angry as people get with Simpson, they are directing it in the wrong place |
Ahem. Once again Town loaned in a full set of other teams’ duds - that’s the real problem. To have no route through to the first team in an era of multi-substitutes is inexplicable, let alone self-harming. | |
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| Looks like Simpson is leaving then on 08:46 - Apr 22 with 1298 views | N2_Blue |
| Looks like Simpson is leaving then on 08:25 - Apr 22 by itfcjoe |
It's hard to know, but I guess the proof of the pudding will be in the eating over the enxt couple of years.
It is very disappointing though to see Liam Gibbs leave last year, and now Tyreece Simpson going the same way when it seems that the biggest factor is us not being able to offer them the pathway through. Gibbs went to Norwich who have been much better run than us for years and the two teams I've heard linked with Simpson (Luton and Barnsley) are teams who have been very good recruiters over the last 3 or so seasons.
Dyer is right re pathways - academy wise in the league this season we have seen Woolfie play, Baggott and Dobra play one game and El Miz play 3 or 4 - if we were top of the league then it would be more understandable.
For whatever Ashton says, when you sign 21 senior players in a season you out so many blockers up to pathways and that needs to be sorted out over the next 18 months or so because we have talented kids coming through and if we can't give them a pathway then this will continue to happen - and as angry as people get with Simpson, they are directing it in the wrong place |
I don't really get this blocked pathway thing. Maybe chances are limited but they are there if you are good enough.
If they warrant being in first team they will play. Downes and Dozell played lots of games. Woolfie took time but that was more down to his performance and it's taken a decent manager to get a tune out of him which is now paying off.
El Mizouni has had chances and done ok but nothing more than that, he's not exactly given anything that says 'I must play'.
Dobra pretty much nothing when he played for us, and his loan at Colchester shows he's probably miles off first team picture here.
I'm sure Humphreys, Baggott et al will gets some chances in coming season and if anyone excels in pre-season Mckenna will have them in first team squad.
If people want more youth and academy in the first team then be prepared to be stuck in L1 for another 5 years as they are not good enough to get us out of the division. If they were they would be in the first team. |  |
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| Looks like Simpson is leaving then on 08:56 - Apr 22 with 1285 views | itfcjoe |
| Looks like Simpson is leaving then on 08:46 - Apr 22 by N2_Blue |
I don't really get this blocked pathway thing. Maybe chances are limited but they are there if you are good enough.
If they warrant being in first team they will play. Downes and Dozell played lots of games. Woolfie took time but that was more down to his performance and it's taken a decent manager to get a tune out of him which is now paying off.
El Mizouni has had chances and done ok but nothing more than that, he's not exactly given anything that says 'I must play'.
Dobra pretty much nothing when he played for us, and his loan at Colchester shows he's probably miles off first team picture here.
I'm sure Humphreys, Baggott et al will gets some chances in coming season and if anyone excels in pre-season Mckenna will have them in first team squad.
If people want more youth and academy in the first team then be prepared to be stuck in L1 for another 5 years as they are not good enough to get us out of the division. If they were they would be in the first team. |
When you sign 21 senior players there simply isn't a pathway - those players take priority forever - they get more and more chances to fail and young players don't get that opportunity. It's a promising sign that McKenna trimmed the squad down in january and hopefully it remains that way to keep pathways open.
Last year Dozzell, Downes, Woolf, Bishop played lots, Dobra and Lankester had a good chunk of minutes, McGavin started a few games and under 2 terrible managers we finished 9th.....this year, no youngsters have really had a look in, and under 1 terrible manager and 1 good manager we'll be lucky to finish 9th so your last para doesn't cut it.
We were able to go on a splurge last summer by selling off academy players for £3-4m, and where has it got us? | |
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| Looks like Simpson is leaving then on 09:25 - Apr 22 with 1215 views | N2_Blue |
| Looks like Simpson is leaving then on 08:56 - Apr 22 by itfcjoe |
When you sign 21 senior players there simply isn't a pathway - those players take priority forever - they get more and more chances to fail and young players don't get that opportunity. It's a promising sign that McKenna trimmed the squad down in january and hopefully it remains that way to keep pathways open.
Last year Dozzell, Downes, Woolf, Bishop played lots, Dobra and Lankester had a good chunk of minutes, McGavin started a few games and under 2 terrible managers we finished 9th.....this year, no youngsters have really had a look in, and under 1 terrible manager and 1 good manager we'll be lucky to finish 9th so your last para doesn't cut it.
We were able to go on a splurge last summer by selling off academy players for £3-4m, and where has it got us? |
So you're basically saying had we played a load of youngsters we'd finish higher than 9th. I don't think so...who's to say we'd be even further off the picture.
The club has changed hugely in 12 months and Paul Cook made a hash of things which has set a lot back including pathways for youngsters. You can hardly blame Mckenna for coming in halfway through a season and sticking with tried and tested experienced players, especially when we had such good form for the initial months and were still in play-off mix. Only the loan signing of Bakinson was perhaps questionable as to whether we played a younger but he was a decent signing so it was fine with me. Thompson was brought in but i can't see that we had one of our own fighting for that position so that was also fair enough.
The one player i think would have been good to see get a look in was Simposn considering our misfiring strikers...yet I think Simpson has messed that up himself with his attitude at being recalled from the loan. I really think if he had acted more maturely he'd have got a few minutes towards the end of the season and he and us would have found out whether he could have been a L1 striker for us next season.
I don't see what more Mckenna could have done regarding this season and our younger players. Now i expect he will be sizing everyone up and balancing whether he has players in the u23 set up who can step up or if he needs to go and sign players for those positions that are needed. | |
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| Looks like Simpson is leaving then on 09:32 - Apr 22 with 1193 views | DJR |
| Looks like Simpson is leaving then on 08:56 - Apr 22 by itfcjoe |
When you sign 21 senior players there simply isn't a pathway - those players take priority forever - they get more and more chances to fail and young players don't get that opportunity. It's a promising sign that McKenna trimmed the squad down in january and hopefully it remains that way to keep pathways open.
Last year Dozzell, Downes, Woolf, Bishop played lots, Dobra and Lankester had a good chunk of minutes, McGavin started a few games and under 2 terrible managers we finished 9th.....this year, no youngsters have really had a look in, and under 1 terrible manager and 1 good manager we'll be lucky to finish 9th so your last para doesn't cut it.
We were able to go on a splurge last summer by selling off academy players for £3-4m, and where has it got us? |
We appear to have gone from one extreme to the other. Under Evans, we didn't have the money which meant we had to play youngsters, even if some weren't really ready or up to it. Now we have the money to buy decent established players, and promotion is the only aim, it is perhaps inevitable that youngsters won't get much of a look-in. Ideally, we would be somewhere in between but I suppose that just isn't life. Hopefully, McKenna with his background will recognise the importance of giving younger players a chance, but maybe it is only exceptional youngsters like Baggott who will come through. I suppose the danger is that we will struggle to attract decent youngsters in the future if it looks highly unlikely they will ever make it here. |  | | |
| Looks like Simpson is leaving then on 09:36 - Apr 22 with 1181 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Looks like Simpson is leaving then on 20:01 - Apr 21 by Darth_Koont |
To be fair, escalating like that would sort of prove the point that the player’s and the club’s interests aren’t the same.
Simpson is within the organisation and has relationships/discussions on a daily basis. It may well be him not listening at all but that’s academic. If it’s not going to work out then better to ease his way out.
Playing hardball with a young player doesn’t look good. Especially to the young players still here and who know that their professional future is in the balance anyway. |
Indeed. If he's good enough we should play him, even if it's ultimately to put him in the shop window. Just sticking him in the U23s serves no-one and feels like cutting our nose off to spite our face. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Looks like Simpson is leaving then on 09:39 - Apr 22 with 1178 views | itfcjoe |
| Looks like Simpson is leaving then on 09:25 - Apr 22 by N2_Blue |
So you're basically saying had we played a load of youngsters we'd finish higher than 9th. I don't think so...who's to say we'd be even further off the picture.
The club has changed hugely in 12 months and Paul Cook made a hash of things which has set a lot back including pathways for youngsters. You can hardly blame Mckenna for coming in halfway through a season and sticking with tried and tested experienced players, especially when we had such good form for the initial months and were still in play-off mix. Only the loan signing of Bakinson was perhaps questionable as to whether we played a younger but he was a decent signing so it was fine with me. Thompson was brought in but i can't see that we had one of our own fighting for that position so that was also fair enough.
The one player i think would have been good to see get a look in was Simposn considering our misfiring strikers...yet I think Simpson has messed that up himself with his attitude at being recalled from the loan. I really think if he had acted more maturely he'd have got a few minutes towards the end of the season and he and us would have found out whether he could have been a L1 striker for us next season.
I don't see what more Mckenna could have done regarding this season and our younger players. Now i expect he will be sizing everyone up and balancing whether he has players in the u23 set up who can step up or if he needs to go and sign players for those positions that are needed. |
You've said that if we want to play academy players we'll be in this league for 5 years which is equally unprovable, with a load of youngsters and 2 terrible managers we did finish 9th last season and for all the positivity around we probably won't finish as high this year
I've mentioned that McKenna trimming the squad is a positive, and it has opened up opportunities even to be on the bench etc or travelling party which helps - but our business last year was a total pathway blocker.
With regards to Simpson, we don't know what has gone on behind the scenes - no doubt we've been playing hardball as well. From Phil's messages it sounds as though he wants a deal similar to an Idris El Mizouni to show that we value him, not a contract of a James Norwood, but that we are offering him one more like a Bailey Clements deal.
Frist team ready youth players are not 10 a penny, that we can't offer someone a pathway and a few hundred quid extra a week to keep them is never a great idea - but there has to be a balance | |
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| Looks like Simpson is leaving then on 09:41 - Apr 22 with 1176 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Looks like Simpson is leaving then on 09:25 - Apr 22 by N2_Blue |
So you're basically saying had we played a load of youngsters we'd finish higher than 9th. I don't think so...who's to say we'd be even further off the picture.
The club has changed hugely in 12 months and Paul Cook made a hash of things which has set a lot back including pathways for youngsters. You can hardly blame Mckenna for coming in halfway through a season and sticking with tried and tested experienced players, especially when we had such good form for the initial months and were still in play-off mix. Only the loan signing of Bakinson was perhaps questionable as to whether we played a younger but he was a decent signing so it was fine with me. Thompson was brought in but i can't see that we had one of our own fighting for that position so that was also fair enough.
The one player i think would have been good to see get a look in was Simposn considering our misfiring strikers...yet I think Simpson has messed that up himself with his attitude at being recalled from the loan. I really think if he had acted more maturely he'd have got a few minutes towards the end of the season and he and us would have found out whether he could have been a L1 striker for us next season.
I don't see what more Mckenna could have done regarding this season and our younger players. Now i expect he will be sizing everyone up and balancing whether he has players in the u23 set up who can step up or if he needs to go and sign players for those positions that are needed. |
The summer will be telling. If we really rate El Mizouni then we will not be signing Bakinson - I suspect we will though. I also suspect we will persist with giving Harper a chance as he was a decent investment. Hopefully he comes good but he's done nothing in an ITFC shirt (or Crewe shirt supposedly) to warrant more of a chance.
Thompson has come in and done ok - would Humphreys have done any better/worse at LWB? We will never know but hopefully he gets the last two games of the season to make a case.
Louie Barry was a really pointless signing and his limited minutes could/should have been played by one of our own.
I don't think you can complain when you are signing the likes of Morsy, Walton, Celina, Chaplin, Edmundson. If we sign players of that calibre this summer then the kids are rightly not going to get much look in. But we certainly shouldn't be signing 'filler' for the squad this summer that steps on academy player's toes. | | | |
| Looks like Simpson is leaving then on 09:42 - Apr 22 with 1174 views | itfcjoe |
| Looks like Simpson is leaving then on 09:32 - Apr 22 by DJR |
We appear to have gone from one extreme to the other. Under Evans, we didn't have the money which meant we had to play youngsters, even if some weren't really ready or up to it. Now we have the money to buy decent established players, and promotion is the only aim, it is perhaps inevitable that youngsters won't get much of a look-in. Ideally, we would be somewhere in between but I suppose that just isn't life. Hopefully, McKenna with his background will recognise the importance of giving younger players a chance, but maybe it is only exceptional youngsters like Baggott who will come through. I suppose the danger is that we will struggle to attract decent youngsters in the future if it looks highly unlikely they will ever make it here. |
A well run club always has both, and that is where we need to get to - because signing expensive players at the expense of youngsters has got us nowhere near this year.
McKenna trimming the squad down in January is the most positive step taken for the development of young players - whether that be developmental signings or youth academy graduates
Continuing to chuck good money at 20+ senior players as your squad every season won't get you anywhere as you don't even get a chance to see kids in the early cup games | |
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| Looks like Simpson is leaving then on 09:58 - Apr 22 with 1134 views | Garv |
Surprising considering we're looking so good and we've got a striker crisis. |  |
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| Looks like Simpson is leaving then on 10:40 - Apr 22 with 1091 views | xrayspecs |
| Looks like Simpson is leaving then on 08:25 - Apr 22 by itfcjoe |
It's hard to know, but I guess the proof of the pudding will be in the eating over the enxt couple of years.
It is very disappointing though to see Liam Gibbs leave last year, and now Tyreece Simpson going the same way when it seems that the biggest factor is us not being able to offer them the pathway through. Gibbs went to Norwich who have been much better run than us for years and the two teams I've heard linked with Simpson (Luton and Barnsley) are teams who have been very good recruiters over the last 3 or so seasons.
Dyer is right re pathways - academy wise in the league this season we have seen Woolfie play, Baggott and Dobra play one game and El Miz play 3 or 4 - if we were top of the league then it would be more understandable.
For whatever Ashton says, when you sign 21 senior players in a season you out so many blockers up to pathways and that needs to be sorted out over the next 18 months or so because we have talented kids coming through and if we can't give them a pathway then this will continue to happen - and as angry as people get with Simpson, they are directing it in the wrong place |
While I agree with your general point about the impact of signing a large number of senior players, I do not agree that Simpson had no pathway. He was loaned out to Swindon to gain first team experience, at a level below where Town are playing. He would have had a full season, if he was prepared to commit to the club and sign a new deal. He chose not to. Had he continued his form into the second half of the season and signed a new deal, I would have imagined he would have been given a chance in pre-season to make a claim for a first team place.
The club has loaned out 20+ players this season to help them experience competitive first team football, from local non-league sides through to Salford, Swindon, Stevenage and Col U in L2. Very few of them are ready for first team football here, including Bailey Clements who had a run of games here under Paul Cook.
There is a huge gap between playing age group and U23 football and first team football, and it often takes players a loan move or two, to bridge the gap. Very few players step straight up. Woolfenden had a season at Swindon, Downes went to Luton, El Miz had spells at Cambridge and Grimsby, Baggott spent time at Kings Lynn last season. Nbada, Clements and Dobra are out on loan now. Going a little further back Lancaster had a loan at Bury, Over recent seasons I can only think of Bishop and Dozzell going into the first team squad without a loan.
There is a very high attrition rate of professional footballers between age group/U23 and first team. In any given age group, the majority will not play professionally for the first team. You only need to look at the lines ups when Town won the FA Youth Cup. How may made it in professional football, how many at Town?
I agree with you that Norwich seem to be ahead of us in terms of youth development but even then, how many players are they bringing through each season, two, three? We spoke previously about comments made at the last fans forum, about Ipswich needing to change the profile of players recruited into the Academy. The inference was that we have focussed too much on smaller, technical players and not enough on athleticism and physicality. You could argue that Lankaster and Bishop were very talented but their bodies have not been able to sustain regular first team football.
McKenna has a good track record of developing younger players, it will be interesting to see which ones from the current crop are deemed to be potential first teamers. [Post edited 22 Apr 2022 10:59]
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| Looks like Simpson is leaving then on 11:00 - Apr 22 with 1058 views | itfcjoe |
| Looks like Simpson is leaving then on 10:40 - Apr 22 by xrayspecs |
While I agree with your general point about the impact of signing a large number of senior players, I do not agree that Simpson had no pathway. He was loaned out to Swindon to gain first team experience, at a level below where Town are playing. He would have had a full season, if he was prepared to commit to the club and sign a new deal. He chose not to. Had he continued his form into the second half of the season and signed a new deal, I would have imagined he would have been given a chance in pre-season to make a claim for a first team place.
The club has loaned out 20+ players this season to help them experience competitive first team football, from local non-league sides through to Salford, Swindon, Stevenage and Col U in L2. Very few of them are ready for first team football here, including Bailey Clements who had a run of games here under Paul Cook.
There is a huge gap between playing age group and U23 football and first team football, and it often takes players a loan move or two, to bridge the gap. Very few players step straight up. Woolfenden had a season at Swindon, Downes went to Luton, El Miz had spells at Cambridge and Grimsby, Baggott spent time at Kings Lynn last season. Nbada, Clements and Dobra are out on loan now. Going a little further back Lancaster had a loan at Bury, Over recent seasons I can only think of Bishop and Dozzell going into the first team squad without a loan.
There is a very high attrition rate of professional footballers between age group/U23 and first team. In any given age group, the majority will not play professionally for the first team. You only need to look at the lines ups when Town won the FA Youth Cup. How may made it in professional football, how many at Town?
I agree with you that Norwich seem to be ahead of us in terms of youth development but even then, how many players are they bringing through each season, two, three? We spoke previously about comments made at the last fans forum, about Ipswich needing to change the profile of players recruited into the Academy. The inference was that we have focussed too much on smaller, technical players and not enough on athleticism and physicality. You could argue that Lankaster and Bishop were very talented but their bodies have not been able to sustain regular first team football.
McKenna has a good track record of developing younger players, it will be interesting to see which ones from the current crop are deemed to be potential first teamers. [Post edited 22 Apr 2022 10:59]
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The commitment does work both ways though - we have to commit to him in order for him to commit to us and for whatever reason there is an impasse there.
But when you talk about the physical profile in last para, Simpson has an incredibly unique hyiscal profile - a teenager playing in the football league who can run the 100m in 11 seconds and is strong as an Ox. This is why he is such an interesting prospect. | |
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| Looks like Simpson is leaving then on 11:07 - Apr 22 with 1042 views | xrayspecs |
| Looks like Simpson is leaving then on 11:00 - Apr 22 by itfcjoe |
The commitment does work both ways though - we have to commit to him in order for him to commit to us and for whatever reason there is an impasse there.
But when you talk about the physical profile in last para, Simpson has an incredibly unique hyiscal profile - a teenager playing in the football league who can run the 100m in 11 seconds and is strong as an Ox. This is why he is such an interesting prospect. |
I agree, commitment works both ways. The priority for young pros is to successfully transition into regular first team football, only a minority successfully make this step. Town have been proactively managing his development, with a good season long loan at Swindon the next step in his development. It is a shame he has bailed, over what appears to be a discussion about money.
I agree that Tyreece has the physicality, he is also an all round sportsman, which is often an indicator of elite performance. It is also a quality that Baggott possesses, and from what I have seen of Chirewa, he also seems to tick this box too. | | | |
| Looks like Simpson is leaving then on 11:08 - Apr 22 with 1040 views | Sharkey |
| Looks like Simpson is leaving then on 11:00 - Apr 22 by itfcjoe |
The commitment does work both ways though - we have to commit to him in order for him to commit to us and for whatever reason there is an impasse there.
But when you talk about the physical profile in last para, Simpson has an incredibly unique hyiscal profile - a teenager playing in the football league who can run the 100m in 11 seconds and is strong as an Ox. This is why he is such an interesting prospect. |
The most fun thing that could happen now is that he would take up that offer to sign for Leicester... Tigers. |  | | |
| Looks like Simpson is leaving then on 11:29 - Apr 22 with 1021 views | itfcjoe |
| Looks like Simpson is leaving then on 11:07 - Apr 22 by xrayspecs |
I agree, commitment works both ways. The priority for young pros is to successfully transition into regular first team football, only a minority successfully make this step. Town have been proactively managing his development, with a good season long loan at Swindon the next step in his development. It is a shame he has bailed, over what appears to be a discussion about money.
I agree that Tyreece has the physicality, he is also an all round sportsman, which is often an indicator of elite performance. It is also a quality that Baggott possesses, and from what I have seen of Chirewa, he also seems to tick this box too. |
Usually when you send a youngster on loan you extend contract at same time in case this happens - it's what we did with Ndaba
I think that after a poor season from Simpson last year, where he only scored 1 or 2 goals for the 23s, they weren't expecting him to get a move (which was necessitated by a club being on it's knees in an embargo) and then subsequently doing so well.
I guess the situation we find ourselves in now is mostly due to that decision made then - even Dyer on his pod commented that he didn't think Simpson was ready for that so seems it has been a club wide miscalculation but will end up hurting us | |
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| Looks like Simpson is leaving then on 11:34 - Apr 22 with 1007 views | Jimmy86 |
| Looks like Simpson is leaving then on 11:00 - Apr 22 by itfcjoe |
The commitment does work both ways though - we have to commit to him in order for him to commit to us and for whatever reason there is an impasse there.
But when you talk about the physical profile in last para, Simpson has an incredibly unique hyiscal profile - a teenager playing in the football league who can run the 100m in 11 seconds and is strong as an Ox. This is why he is such an interesting prospect. |
Joe, I know you're a massive advocate of the academy and that's fair enough, always great to see someone come through and then play in the first team, but for all the talk of pathways surely they have to be good enough? If they are then they'll get their chance and rightly so...
Has Simpson earned the right to this pathway we seem to be talking of? The pathway seemed to be come back to the club, sign a new deal and then be loaned back out. Has he earned the right to be getting a contract in lime with a first team player? I personally don't think so..
Regarding the academy I think sometimes the sentiment needs to be taken out of it... under Evans it was needed more, as we couldn't go out and sign decent players, whereas now we can. Still maintain if these academy boys are good enough then they'll be given their chance | | | |
| Looks like Simpson is leaving then on 11:53 - Apr 22 with 975 views | itfcjoe |
| Looks like Simpson is leaving then on 11:34 - Apr 22 by Jimmy86 |
Joe, I know you're a massive advocate of the academy and that's fair enough, always great to see someone come through and then play in the first team, but for all the talk of pathways surely they have to be good enough? If they are then they'll get their chance and rightly so...
Has Simpson earned the right to this pathway we seem to be talking of? The pathway seemed to be come back to the club, sign a new deal and then be loaned back out. Has he earned the right to be getting a contract in lime with a first team player? I personally don't think so..
Regarding the academy I think sometimes the sentiment needs to be taken out of it... under Evans it was needed more, as we couldn't go out and sign decent players, whereas now we can. Still maintain if these academy boys are good enough then they'll be given their chance |
I fundamentally disagree with the line that if they are good enough, they will get their chance - as just so much more goes into it than that.
Just looking at Simpson as an example - from what we've seen of him at Swindon this season, and what we've seen of Pigott and Bonne in recent weeks then he is 'good enough' to be involved now - but he isn't being involved. I think he has earned the right to be paid as a 1st team squad player, as opposed to an u23.
When you sign 21 players you put blockers in place all over the pitch - it means even in Papa Johns Trophy games that youngsters don't play......when we got knocked out of PJT by Arsenal we made 11 changes from the previous league game and only youngster who got a chance is El Mizouni who is 21......if you are making 11 changes, and can't even get a youngster on to a subs bench then when and how do they get their chance. And at that time we had Norwood, Coulson, Barry and no doubt more injured/unavailable.
Since McK came in we have trimmed the squad down relatively significantly - this has allowed both Baggott and Humphreys to be part of the 19 man travelling squad - had we not trimmed it down we wouldn't have not taken Toto Nsiala or Rekeem harper or Scott Fraser ahead of these players, they would have been with the 23s with no route out to senior squad.
It's important that what we have seen in last few weeks is where we are next year, the senior squad needs to be adequately covered, but you can't have situation where there are 3, 4 or 5 senior players not even on bench because then youngsters simply can't get through | |
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| Looks like Simpson is leaving then on 11:57 - Apr 22 with 966 views | N2_Blue |
| Looks like Simpson is leaving then on 10:40 - Apr 22 by xrayspecs |
While I agree with your general point about the impact of signing a large number of senior players, I do not agree that Simpson had no pathway. He was loaned out to Swindon to gain first team experience, at a level below where Town are playing. He would have had a full season, if he was prepared to commit to the club and sign a new deal. He chose not to. Had he continued his form into the second half of the season and signed a new deal, I would have imagined he would have been given a chance in pre-season to make a claim for a first team place.
The club has loaned out 20+ players this season to help them experience competitive first team football, from local non-league sides through to Salford, Swindon, Stevenage and Col U in L2. Very few of them are ready for first team football here, including Bailey Clements who had a run of games here under Paul Cook.
There is a huge gap between playing age group and U23 football and first team football, and it often takes players a loan move or two, to bridge the gap. Very few players step straight up. Woolfenden had a season at Swindon, Downes went to Luton, El Miz had spells at Cambridge and Grimsby, Baggott spent time at Kings Lynn last season. Nbada, Clements and Dobra are out on loan now. Going a little further back Lancaster had a loan at Bury, Over recent seasons I can only think of Bishop and Dozzell going into the first team squad without a loan.
There is a very high attrition rate of professional footballers between age group/U23 and first team. In any given age group, the majority will not play professionally for the first team. You only need to look at the lines ups when Town won the FA Youth Cup. How may made it in professional football, how many at Town?
I agree with you that Norwich seem to be ahead of us in terms of youth development but even then, how many players are they bringing through each season, two, three? We spoke previously about comments made at the last fans forum, about Ipswich needing to change the profile of players recruited into the Academy. The inference was that we have focussed too much on smaller, technical players and not enough on athleticism and physicality. You could argue that Lankaster and Bishop were very talented but their bodies have not been able to sustain regular first team football.
McKenna has a good track record of developing younger players, it will be interesting to see which ones from the current crop are deemed to be potential first teamers. [Post edited 22 Apr 2022 10:59]
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good post, agree with much of that | |
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| Looks like Simpson is leaving then on 12:03 - Apr 22 with 961 views | TVRBlue |
| Looks like Simpson is leaving then on 10:40 - Apr 22 by xrayspecs |
While I agree with your general point about the impact of signing a large number of senior players, I do not agree that Simpson had no pathway. He was loaned out to Swindon to gain first team experience, at a level below where Town are playing. He would have had a full season, if he was prepared to commit to the club and sign a new deal. He chose not to. Had he continued his form into the second half of the season and signed a new deal, I would have imagined he would have been given a chance in pre-season to make a claim for a first team place.
The club has loaned out 20+ players this season to help them experience competitive first team football, from local non-league sides through to Salford, Swindon, Stevenage and Col U in L2. Very few of them are ready for first team football here, including Bailey Clements who had a run of games here under Paul Cook.
There is a huge gap between playing age group and U23 football and first team football, and it often takes players a loan move or two, to bridge the gap. Very few players step straight up. Woolfenden had a season at Swindon, Downes went to Luton, El Miz had spells at Cambridge and Grimsby, Baggott spent time at Kings Lynn last season. Nbada, Clements and Dobra are out on loan now. Going a little further back Lancaster had a loan at Bury, Over recent seasons I can only think of Bishop and Dozzell going into the first team squad without a loan.
There is a very high attrition rate of professional footballers between age group/U23 and first team. In any given age group, the majority will not play professionally for the first team. You only need to look at the lines ups when Town won the FA Youth Cup. How may made it in professional football, how many at Town?
I agree with you that Norwich seem to be ahead of us in terms of youth development but even then, how many players are they bringing through each season, two, three? We spoke previously about comments made at the last fans forum, about Ipswich needing to change the profile of players recruited into the Academy. The inference was that we have focussed too much on smaller, technical players and not enough on athleticism and physicality. You could argue that Lankaster and Bishop were very talented but their bodies have not been able to sustain regular first team football.
McKenna has a good track record of developing younger players, it will be interesting to see which ones from the current crop are deemed to be potential first teamers. [Post edited 22 Apr 2022 10:59]
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Everything in xrayspecs' post is correct.
With reference to Norwich and their academy they have, unfortunately unlike us, been playing at a higher level (Championship and Premier League) a whole lot more than us over the last 10 years or so. As a result, their academy is bound to attract better youth players in to their set up and with Championship and Premier League finances behind them they can certainly pay academy players better than we can ours. Furthermore, I believe this has resulted in a "dilution" of the quality of young players we can attract in to our academy and our academy players are, in my opinion, less likely to make it in professional football. And that's the nature of professional football. It's hard.
I think it was necessary to make the changes that happened to the squad last summer, although I gather from one or two on this forum that the way that was done could have been handled differently/better. I don't know if that's true or not, I wasn't party to any discussions with players at that time and I don't believe anyone on this forum was either. So no-one knows. For me, the only two I was a little disappointed at leaving was Downes and Dozzel. However, Downes said he didn't want to be here despite what the Club may have offered him contractually or salary wise, and I believe Dozzel had a financial release clause. It's good to see both of them playing at a higher level and, hopefully, enjoying their football. Ipswich Town FC and particularly our academy should be applauded for investing in them and nurturing them to play at that level.
With regards Simpson my understanding is the Club would like him to commit to ITFC, for which he will gain a Contract and salary in accordance with what the Club values him at. If he, or his Agent, feels he is worth a better Contract or a higher salary then they should negotiate it. If an agreement can't be reached then I'm pretty sure we will take up the one year Contract extension and will likely offer him out on loan to another club, with the other club paying a proportion of his salary. This, in turn, will put Simpson "in the shop window" for other clubs who might wish to buy him. Alternatively, he'll play at the loan club for the season and will be out of Contract in the summer of 2023 and can then do as he pleases.
On Simpson, I understand from comments made by Kieran McKenna that a pathway for his overall development and, I am sure, improvement as a professional footballer, has been discussed with him more than once and he has chosen to ignore that advice. A pathway that, with a lot of hard work from him and those at Playford Road, could lead him to a level where he can be a regular first team squad player. If he's good enough he will be selected - it's as simple as that. Currently, it would seem Kieran McKenna and all the professional staff within the Club don't feel he's quite there just yet. I wish the young lad all the best with his footballing career whatever happens in the future but I hope he doesn't live to regret it in 3 or 4 years time should he end up at lower league/non-league football or out of the game altogether. [Post edited 22 Apr 2022 12:08]
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