| Withdrawal of sponsorship because of a new signing with a history on 14:32 - Feb 1 with 2045 views | chicoazul |
Good for her. |  |
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| Withdrawal of sponsorship because of a new signing with a history on 14:38 - Feb 1 with 2019 views | Swansea_Blue |
David NotSoGoodwillie
I'm not sure where that civil case verdict leaves him tbh. It's not a criminal conviction, but judge must have ruled that the plaintiff proved her case. Morally, I can understand why she's acted the way she has. It's not straightforward though, as he's also got every right to continue playing and the club have every right to employ him. |  |
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| Withdrawal of sponsorship because of a new signing with a history on 14:48 - Feb 1 with 1973 views | GlasgowBlue |
I think we were linked with him in Magilton's time here.
My neighbour is a Clyde fan and was devastated that Goodwillie went at the end of deadline day. |  |
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| Withdrawal of sponsorship because of a new signing with a history on 15:06 - Feb 1 with 1874 views | readtheleaguetable |
I know it is hard for us as football fans to admit, but sometimes principles are more important than football. Good for Val McDermid. And good for the long-standing Raith women’s captain, who quit in protest. And shame on the hierarchy at Raith. Goodwillie was going to be playing on the Raith pitch with McDermid’s name emblazened on his shirt. Not surprising that she could not stand that thought. |  |
| Qu'est-ce que vous chantez? Nous chantons "Les Bleus, allez!" |
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| Withdrawal of sponsorship because of a new signing with a history on 15:15 - Feb 1 with 1832 views | XYZ |
Of course it is.
What principle gives you the right to question her personal decision?
Weird. |  | | |
| Withdrawal of sponsorship because of a new signing with a history on 15:33 - Feb 1 with 1752 views | J2BLUE |
I wouldn't turn my back on the club but i'd be pretty disgusted. |  |
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| Withdrawal of sponsorship because of a new signing with a history on 15:37 - Feb 1 with 1745 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
| Withdrawal of sponsorship because of a new signing with a history on 14:38 - Feb 1 by Swansea_Blue |
David NotSoGoodwillie
I'm not sure where that civil case verdict leaves him tbh. It's not a criminal conviction, but judge must have ruled that the plaintiff proved her case. Morally, I can understand why she's acted the way she has. It's not straightforward though, as he's also got every right to continue playing and the club have every right to employ him. |
In the eyes of the law he is not a rapist as not convicted. I believe with a civil case its the balance of probabilities that is the benchmark.
It's makes it hard for a football club but Val has been guided by her principles and I say good for her for that being the case. |  |
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| Withdrawal of sponsorship because of a new signing with a history on 16:08 - Feb 1 with 1656 views | Kievthegreat |
| Withdrawal of sponsorship because of a new signing with a history on 15:37 - Feb 1 by BlueandTruesince82 |
In the eyes of the law he is not a rapist as not convicted. I believe with a civil case its the balance of probabilities that is the benchmark.
It's makes it hard for a football club but Val has been guided by her principles and I say good for her for that being the case. |
The only court ever to examine the allegations determined he was a rapist. I believe you're correct with regards the balance of probability vs beyond reasonable doubt, but it is still factually correct and I'd argue more than fair to refer to him as a rapist given.
I note in the article that the usual "alleged/allegations" wording is absent. Albeit they only call him a rapist in quotes from others or in the context of saying that's what a judge said. |  | | |
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| Withdrawal of sponsorship because of a new signing with a history on 18:31 - Feb 1 with 1499 views | WeWereZombies |
| Withdrawal of sponsorship because of a new signing with a history on 15:15 - Feb 1 by XYZ |
Of course it is.
What principle gives you the right to question her personal decision?
Weird. |
Actually I made no judgement and was opening it up for discussion as I thought it was an interesting subject for discussion on a football forum. Whilst I do not know Val McDermid personally we do have a mutual friend and I will, no doubt, get chapter and verse on the decision in due course. |  |
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| Withdrawal of sponsorship because of a new signing with a history on 18:36 - Feb 1 with 1473 views | XYZ |
| Withdrawal of sponsorship because of a new signing with a history on 18:31 - Feb 1 by WeWereZombies |
Actually I made no judgement and was opening it up for discussion as I thought it was an interesting subject for discussion on a football forum. Whilst I do not know Val McDermid personally we do have a mutual friend and I will, no doubt, get chapter and verse on the decision in due course. |
So you express no opinion; you just want see others' opinions?
Still weird. | | | |
| Withdrawal of sponsorship because of a new signing with a history on 18:46 - Feb 1 with 1457 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
| Withdrawal of sponsorship because of a new signing with a history on 16:08 - Feb 1 by Kievthegreat |
The only court ever to examine the allegations determined he was a rapist. I believe you're correct with regards the balance of probability vs beyond reasonable doubt, but it is still factually correct and I'd argue more than fair to refer to him as a rapist given.
I note in the article that the usual "alleged/allegations" wording is absent. Albeit they only call him a rapist in quotes from others or in the context of saying that's what a judge said. |
But in the eyes of the law a civil claim is not a conviction is it? I didn't follow the case so I have no idea I'm just saying that as point of law, he doesn't have it on records legally he's not?
Any lawyers offer some insight? | |
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| Withdrawal of sponsorship because of a new signing with a history on 19:05 - Feb 1 with 1422 views | Radlett_blue |
| Withdrawal of sponsorship because of a new signing with a history on 14:38 - Feb 1 by Swansea_Blue |
David NotSoGoodwillie
I'm not sure where that civil case verdict leaves him tbh. It's not a criminal conviction, but judge must have ruled that the plaintiff proved her case. Morally, I can understand why she's acted the way she has. It's not straightforward though, as he's also got every right to continue playing and the club have every right to employ him. |
Indeed, have to judge on a case-by-case basis. OJ Simpson was found not guilty of murder in a criminal court, but was found guilty in a civil court. He managed to dodge paying the civil penalties by moving to Florida. in my eyes, he's a brutal murderer.
The unfortunately named Goodwillie has 3 convictions for assault & while that doesn't mean he's guilty of rape, the civil court judgement is good enough for me as proving rape in a criminal court is so difficult. I wouldn't want him near my club either, but we're getting into the Ched Evans debate as to whether a bad egg should be able to ply his trade in the emotional game of pro football. |  |
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| Withdrawal of sponsorship because of a new signing with a history on 19:23 - Feb 1 with 1404 views | Mullet |
| Withdrawal of sponsorship because of a new signing with a history on 14:48 - Feb 1 by GlasgowBlue |
I think we were linked with him in Magilton's time here.
My neighbour is a Clyde fan and was devastated that Goodwillie went at the end of deadline day. |
Thought it was Jewell but we were definitely linked |  |
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| Withdrawal of sponsorship because of a new signing with a history on 19:40 - Feb 1 with 1366 views | Kievthegreat |
They've been silent all day, but Raith Rovers have put out an amazingly tone deaf statement:
"As announced on our website last night, Raith Rovers FC can confirm that we have signed David Goodwillie from Clyde FC.
David is a proven goal scorer, and this will be his second stint with the club, having previously played for us on loan from Dundee United during season 2007-08.
As with all new signings, the club has carefully considered our position as a Community Club and we completely respect the differing views among fans and stakeholders, many of whom we have spoken to directly in the past 24 hours and are continuing to engage with.
As David has previously played for Raith Rovers earlier in his career, we consider him to be part of Raith Rovers Football Club. The management team is familiar with David’s career and background and — in particular — his footballing ability. That is our foremost consideration, and we believe that he will strengthen the Raith Rovers playing squad.
Please be assured that as a community football club we fully acknowledge this signing has divided opinion amongst our loyal fans and commercial stakeholders; We aim to rebuild that trust.
While acknowledging the gravity of what happened ten years ago, as a club we fully support and encourage rehabilitation, and many factors influenced our signing.
First and foremost, this was a football related decision."
https://www.raithrovers.net/52429/club-statement-10.htm
In addition 2 board members have resigned (they were apparently out voted 4-2 on the decision to sign him). | | | |
| Withdrawal of sponsorship because of a new signing with a history on 19:48 - Feb 1 with 1354 views | Kievthegreat |
Now, in addition to "Raith Rovers" and "Goodwillie", the poor taste (IMO) moniker, "Rape Rovers" is now trending on twitter. | | | |
| Withdrawal of sponsorship because of a new signing with a history on 19:53 - Feb 1 with 1331 views | WeWereZombies |
| Withdrawal of sponsorship because of a new signing with a history on 18:36 - Feb 1 by XYZ |
So you express no opinion; you just want see others' opinions?
Still weird. |
I think that if you go back through this thread and see who I have given an upvote to (all of which were ticked before my second post that you replied to) then even you can see what my opinion is on this issue... | |
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| Withdrawal of sponsorship because of a new signing with a history on 10:59 - Feb 2 with 1079 views | WeWereZombies |
| Withdrawal of sponsorship because of a new signing with a history on 15:06 - Feb 1 by readtheleaguetable |
I know it is hard for us as football fans to admit, but sometimes principles are more important than football. Good for Val McDermid. And good for the long-standing Raith women’s captain, who quit in protest. And shame on the hierarchy at Raith. Goodwillie was going to be playing on the Raith pitch with McDermid’s name emblazened on his shirt. Not surprising that she could not stand that thought. |
Another local football supporter has added his weight to the chorus of disapproval about the Goodwillie signing:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-60226559
This will upset XYZ but I think The Herald placing the headline 'Brown joins backlash after Scottish club signs rapist' directly above a photo of Boris Johnson and the, lesser known to their readers and therefore possible to confuse with a member of Raith Rovers management, Volodymyr Zelensky is a bit naughty, up there with the Daily Express photo shop jobs that pitch people they consider opposites into rooms in which they have never met. Deflects from the real issues. | |
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| Withdrawal of sponsorship because of a new signing with a history on 12:28 - Feb 2 with 1003 views | Churchman |
| Withdrawal of sponsorship because of a new signing with a history on 15:06 - Feb 1 by readtheleaguetable |
I know it is hard for us as football fans to admit, but sometimes principles are more important than football. Good for Val McDermid. And good for the long-standing Raith women’s captain, who quit in protest. And shame on the hierarchy at Raith. Goodwillie was going to be playing on the Raith pitch with McDermid’s name emblazened on his shirt. Not surprising that she could not stand that thought. |
Yes, well done Val McDermid. Regardless of the technicalities, I believe sometimes principles and standards are more important than football. She is right and made her choice, the club through its short sightedness may pay a higher price than any benefits this player may give them. Tough if they do. |  | | |
| Withdrawal of sponsorship because of a new signing with a history on 12:35 - Feb 2 with 975 views | XYZ |
| Withdrawal of sponsorship because of a new signing with a history on 10:59 - Feb 2 by WeWereZombies |
Another local football supporter has added his weight to the chorus of disapproval about the Goodwillie signing:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-60226559
This will upset XYZ but I think The Herald placing the headline 'Brown joins backlash after Scottish club signs rapist' directly above a photo of Boris Johnson and the, lesser known to their readers and therefore possible to confuse with a member of Raith Rovers management, Volodymyr Zelensky is a bit naughty, up there with the Daily Express photo shop jobs that pitch people they consider opposites into rooms in which they have never met. Deflects from the real issues. |
Why do you think that would upset me? It's a reasonable point.
At least you've put into words this time without expecting me to investigate all the up and down arrows in the thread to work out what you think. | | | |
| Withdrawal of sponsorship because of a new signing with a history on 13:07 - Feb 3 with 812 views | WeWereZombies |
The latest twist in this sorry tale, they have signed the player but they are not going to play him. And Val isn't coming back to sponsor the shirts yet either:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-60244442 | |
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| Withdrawal of sponsorship because of a new signing with a history on 14:04 - Feb 3 with 733 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
| Withdrawal of sponsorship because of a new signing with a history on 13:07 - Feb 3 by WeWereZombies |
The latest twist in this sorry tale, they have signed the player but they are not going to play him. And Val isn't coming back to sponsor the shirts yet either:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-60244442 |
I assume this leaves them having to pay his contract still too. They knew about his past when they signed him so they can't rely on that as a getout and I think they paid a fee for him too.
All in all a costly mistake but reassuring to see the reaction brining about the result.
If we look over the water sports stars seem to get chance after chance over there (listen to the crime in sports podcast if you want to hear some examples) and it feels like there is too much money involved so people seem happy to forget some egregious acts.
Glad that over here we can still effect this kind of change | |
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