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kinnock amendment passed 19:49 - Sep 4 with 1931 views

for anyone who wants exit with a deal there might, just might, be a glimmer of light in this mass f*ck up.

[Post edited 4 Sep 2019 19:50]

And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show

kinnock amendment passed on 19:53 - Sep 4 with 1897 views

DanTheMan

I’m not sure what this amendment actually does. It attaches a purpose for the desired extension, but it doesn’t actually compel the Government (or anyone else for that matter) to actually introduce a Bill.

Am I missing something? https://t.co/5ROz1patdx
— Graeme Cowie (@woodstockjag) September 4, 2019

I've been trying to read the amendment and understand legally what it could mean but it does read like it doesn't do anything other than state a purpose.

At the same time, I can't understand why the Government would just let this through.

Also, in a modern democracy, how the hell can things like this be allowed? Absolutely ridiculous.

[Post edited 4 Sep 2019 19:54]

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kinnock amendment passed on 19:57 - Sep 4 with 1865 views

BloomBlue

Is that another vote in the HoC on the May deal?

kinnock amendment passed on 19:59 - Sep 4 with 1854 views

lowhouseblue

kinnock amendment passed on 19:57 - Sep 4 by BloomBlue
Is that another vote in the HoC on the May deal?

the version as amended after the earlier inter party dialogue - that version hasn't been put to a vote. if people are serious about avoiding no deal, then a deal is the best way of doing that.

kinnock amendment passed on 20:02 - Sep 4 with 1831 views

BloomBlue

kinnock amendment passed on 19:59 - Sep 4 by lowhouseblue
the version as amended after the earlier inter party dialogue - that version hasn't been put to a vote. if people are serious about avoiding no deal, then a deal is the best way of doing that.

Looks like it only passed because there were no tellers available, so not actually voted on, only that could happen in the HoC

kinnock amendment passed on 20:05 - Sep 4 with 1816 views

gordon

It passed because no-one counted the 'no' votes (which were far more than the yeses). Brilliant stuff.

kinnock amendment passed on 20:05 - Sep 4 with 1817 views

Guthrum

kinnock amendment passed on 19:57 - Sep 4 by BloomBlue
Is that another vote in the HoC on the May deal?

It gives as the purpose of the extension (Johnson's govt having failed to make a deal and the House not voted for No deal) passing a version of the May WA, amended by the cross-party discussions from the spring.

However, it doesn't appear to compel the govt to actually propose a bill on the subject.

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kinnock amendment passed on 20:06 - Sep 4 with 1812 views

Guthrum

kinnock amendment passed on 20:02 - Sep 4 by BloomBlue
Looks like it only passed because there were no tellers available, so not actually voted on, only that could happen in the HoC

Tho was that a deliberate attempt to sabotage the entire bill by allowing an unwanted amendment? Hasn't worked if so.

Tho there are a lot of people who would go for a moderate Brexit now rather than No Deal or Remain.

[Post edited 4 Sep 2019 20:06]

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kinnock amendment passed on 20:06 - Sep 4 with 1803 views

J2BLUE

Huge respect to Ken Clarke. Calmly destroying Boris.

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kinnock amendment passed on 20:12 - Sep 4 with 1754 views

GlasgowBlue

kinnock amendment passed on 20:06 - Sep 4 by J2BLUE
Huge respect to Ken Clarke. Calmly destroying Boris.

He was bloody good wasn’t he? And Blackford has been the unofficial leader of the opposition in the HOC for the last four years.

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kinnock amendment passed on 20:17 - Sep 4 with 1714 views

jas0999

There will be no Brexit:

Mays Deal: Not backed by Labour or Brexiteers
Boris No Deal: Not backed by Labour or Remainers

General Election: Not backed by Labour and others

So, how on Earth do we move forward? Labour won’t back anything! If they negotiate a deal if in Power, which they won’t if they don’t back an election, then they will allegedly then not back their deal as they look to remain.

What a MESS.

kinnock amendment passed on 20:19 - Sep 4 with 1693 views

BlueBadger

kinnock amendment passed on 20:17 - Sep 4 by jas0999

Still, at least it's achieved its primary aim of uniting the Tory party.

[Post edited 4 Sep 2019 20:20]

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kinnock amendment passed on 20:21 - Sep 4 with 1674 views

GlasgowBlue

kinnock amendment passed on 20:19 - Sep 4 by BlueBadger
Still, at least it's achieved its primary aim of uniting the Tory party. [Post edited 4 Sep 2019 20:20]

Arf

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kinnock amendment passed on 20:21 - Sep 4 with 1672 views

Guthrum

kinnock amendment passed on 20:17 - Sep 4 by jas0999

The best chances of Brexit now are an amended version of the May WA, as per the Kinnock Amendment, or some new deal which either gives a customs union or a separate customs environment for NI. Those stand at least a chance of passing, especially having been this close to the No Deal cliff.

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kinnock amendment passed on 20:22 - Sep 4 with 1659 views

BloomBlue

kinnock amendment passed on 20:17 - Sep 4 by jas0999

The EU refused to accept an extension - then what?

kinnock amendment passed on 20:24 - Sep 4 with 1645 views

GlasgowBlue

kinnock amendment passed on 20:21 - Sep 4 by Guthrum
The best chances of Brexit now are an amended version of the May WA, as per the Kinnock Amendment, or some new deal which either gives a customs union or a separate customs environment for NI. Those stand at least a chance of passing, especially having been this close to the No Deal cliff.

I think there are now 50 Labour MPs who are now prepared t9 back May’s deal.

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kinnock amendment passed on 20:32 - Sep 4 with 1593 views

jas0999

kinnock amendment passed on 20:21 - Sep 4 by Guthrum
The best chances of Brexit now are an amended version of the May WA, as per the Kinnock Amendment, or some new deal which either gives a customs union or a separate customs environment for NI. Those stand at least a chance of passing, especially having been this close to the No Deal cliff.

... but Boris unlikely to go down that route and EU unlikely to renegotiate.

kinnock amendment passed on 20:32 - Sep 4 with 1590 views

jas0999

kinnock amendment passed on 20:19 - Sep 4 by BlueBadger
Still, at least it's achieved its primary aim of uniting the Tory party. [Post edited 4 Sep 2019 20:20]

A sorry mess.

kinnock amendment passed on 20:37 - Sep 4 with 1564 views

WeWereZombies

kinnock amendment passed on 20:22 - Sep 4 by BloomBlue
The EU refused to accept an extension - then what?

They will agree an extension if they will there is a credible government to work with:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-delay-article-50-extension

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kinnock amendment passed on 20:40 - Sep 4 with 1545 views

Guthrum

kinnock amendment passed on 20:32 - Sep 4 by jas0999
... but Boris unlikely to go down that route and EU unlikely to renegotiate.

The EU will renegotiate if there are substantive changes to the UK's position and red lines. What they won't do is simply remove the Irish Backstop in the absence of alternative provisions (real ones, which work).

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kinnock amendment passed on 20:41 - Sep 4 with 1537 views

Guthrum

kinnock amendment passed on 20:22 - Sep 4 by BloomBlue
The EU refused to accept an extension - then what?

They've already said a General Election is a good enough reason to extend.

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kinnock amendment passed on 20:42 - Sep 4 with 1530 views

jas0999

kinnock amendment passed on 20:40 - Sep 4 by Guthrum
The EU will renegotiate if there are substantive changes to the UK's position and red lines. What they won't do is simply remove the Irish Backstop in the absence of alternative provisions (real ones, which work).

Exactly. Boris won’t go down that route. Therefore unlikely to be a deal or a no deal. Or a general election. What next?

kinnock amendment passed on 20:49 - Sep 4 with 1491 views

Guthrum

kinnock amendment passed on 20:42 - Sep 4 by jas0999
Exactly. Boris won’t go down that route. Therefore unlikely to be a deal or a no deal. Or a general election. What next?

Pretty sure there will be a GE, the government has no majority and cannot enact legislation. However, it will not go through until this Bill has passed into law, removing any chance of procedural shenanigans by manipulating dates to allow No Deal to happen by default while the House is dissolved.

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kinnock amendment passed on 21:47 - Sep 4 with 1363 views

SonOfSpock

kinnock amendment passed on 20:06 - Sep 4 by Guthrum
Tho was that a deliberate attempt to sabotage the entire bill by allowing an unwanted amendment? Hasn't worked if so. Tho there are a lot of people who would go for a moderate Brexit now rather than No Deal or Remain. [Post edited 4 Sep 2019 20:06]

It's a complete shambles.

The most sensible option is to join efta.

kinnock amendment passed on 21:55 - Sep 4 with 1343 views

Herbivore

kinnock amendment passed on 19:59 - Sep 4 by lowhouseblue
the version as amended after the earlier inter party dialogue - that version hasn't been put to a vote. if people are serious about avoiding no deal, then a deal is the best way of doing that.

A second referendum is a better means, I would suggest.

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kinnock amendment passed on 21:59 - Sep 4 with 1321 views

Nthsuffolkblue

kinnock amendment passed on 20:24 - Sep 4 by GlasgowBlue
I think there are now 50 Labour MPs who are now prepared t9 back May’s deal.

That's nothing like enough with so many ERG against it and LibDem against it on the other side.

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