| Have the EADT issued an apology yet. 18:41 - Aug 29 with 12312 views | Terry_Nutkins |
Rubbish game today but that obviously doesn't detract from the fact they have printed malicious lies about that photo call. That very very poor journalism. |  |
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| Have the EADT issued an apology yet. on 09:06 - Aug 30 with 3404 views | itfcjoe |
| Have the EADT issued an apology yet. on 08:22 - Aug 30 by BrixtonBlue |
If this is the case, has Lambert changed his ways from his Norwich days? Or were the Norwich players less bothered about it? It would seem weird to change things that were working. Unless Lambert got too big for his boots? |
To be brutally honest, I don't know - everything you hear from Norwich days is about being a great man manager, but he also seems to have an energy then and mojo that doesn't exist any more.
A lot is made of the fact that Ian Culverhouse was his tactics guy, and that his other assistant Gary Karsa was his recruitment guy - both of whom were sacked for bullying at Villa - but he hasn't really done a great job anywhere since, has certainly done a serviceable job at both Blackburn and Wolves though.
From what I hear, when he first came in after Hurst, the players were relieved to have a 'proper manager' come in and liked him and what he was doing and trying to do - it just didn't work.
I think, and this is just purely reading between the lines, that he can do that motivation initially, get everyone on side and get it going - which was enough at Blackburn and Wolves, but failed narrowly at Stoke and then failed a tougher task here - but when it comes to implementing his own ideas on team setup, other than the basics he and his backroom staff don't have what it takes to do so.
And when results are bad, and players being blamed for it, methods are bad and you've lost respect - things that may have worked when things are going well just won't work when things are going badly as, like the fans' they get over analysed and become another reason why he is rubbish.
Last season we had 27 points after 11 games playing a relatively simple and stable 442 - we then started p155ing baout with mass rotation, postponing games, changing formation every week and picked up 25 points from our next 25 games.
The players have seen through him, and seen that he doesn't know what he is doing and it is a very unhappy camp from all i hear at all levels - it sounds untenable for him to continue |  |
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| Have the EADT issued an apology yet. on 09:22 - Aug 30 with 3345 views | Terry_Nutkins |
| Have the EADT issued an apology yet. on 09:06 - Aug 30 by itfcjoe |
To be brutally honest, I don't know - everything you hear from Norwich days is about being a great man manager, but he also seems to have an energy then and mojo that doesn't exist any more.
A lot is made of the fact that Ian Culverhouse was his tactics guy, and that his other assistant Gary Karsa was his recruitment guy - both of whom were sacked for bullying at Villa - but he hasn't really done a great job anywhere since, has certainly done a serviceable job at both Blackburn and Wolves though.
From what I hear, when he first came in after Hurst, the players were relieved to have a 'proper manager' come in and liked him and what he was doing and trying to do - it just didn't work.
I think, and this is just purely reading between the lines, that he can do that motivation initially, get everyone on side and get it going - which was enough at Blackburn and Wolves, but failed narrowly at Stoke and then failed a tougher task here - but when it comes to implementing his own ideas on team setup, other than the basics he and his backroom staff don't have what it takes to do so.
And when results are bad, and players being blamed for it, methods are bad and you've lost respect - things that may have worked when things are going well just won't work when things are going badly as, like the fans' they get over analysed and become another reason why he is rubbish.
Last season we had 27 points after 11 games playing a relatively simple and stable 442 - we then started p155ing baout with mass rotation, postponing games, changing formation every week and picked up 25 points from our next 25 games.
The players have seen through him, and seen that he doesn't know what he is doing and it is a very unhappy camp from all i hear at all levels - it sounds untenable for him to continue |
If you are right Joe and do have connections in the team then yes that is untenable. I think the big squad of similar ability players is always going to go that way without the results.
He's going to start the season that seems clear. His only future is if we start well now..if we can get the results then morale etc can shift.
It's worrying if you are right and have this first hand. Huws certainly didnt suggest this to be the case the other day. Sounded a happy camp.
Time will tell but if its not just one or two bad eggs it wont be long if bad results then. | |
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| Have the EADT issued an apology yet. on 09:36 - Aug 30 with 3314 views | hector_clifford |
| Have the EADT issued an apology yet. on 09:06 - Aug 30 by itfcjoe |
To be brutally honest, I don't know - everything you hear from Norwich days is about being a great man manager, but he also seems to have an energy then and mojo that doesn't exist any more.
A lot is made of the fact that Ian Culverhouse was his tactics guy, and that his other assistant Gary Karsa was his recruitment guy - both of whom were sacked for bullying at Villa - but he hasn't really done a great job anywhere since, has certainly done a serviceable job at both Blackburn and Wolves though.
From what I hear, when he first came in after Hurst, the players were relieved to have a 'proper manager' come in and liked him and what he was doing and trying to do - it just didn't work.
I think, and this is just purely reading between the lines, that he can do that motivation initially, get everyone on side and get it going - which was enough at Blackburn and Wolves, but failed narrowly at Stoke and then failed a tougher task here - but when it comes to implementing his own ideas on team setup, other than the basics he and his backroom staff don't have what it takes to do so.
And when results are bad, and players being blamed for it, methods are bad and you've lost respect - things that may have worked when things are going well just won't work when things are going badly as, like the fans' they get over analysed and become another reason why he is rubbish.
Last season we had 27 points after 11 games playing a relatively simple and stable 442 - we then started p155ing baout with mass rotation, postponing games, changing formation every week and picked up 25 points from our next 25 games.
The players have seen through him, and seen that he doesn't know what he is doing and it is a very unhappy camp from all i hear at all levels - it sounds untenable for him to continue |
Is it how he has treated young players, that has alienated academy staff Joe?
And do you know if Terry Butcher is still here.
All that with the legends seems quite calculated now. | |
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| Have the EADT issued an apology yet. on 09:44 - Aug 30 with 3295 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Have the EADT issued an apology yet. on 09:06 - Aug 30 by itfcjoe |
To be brutally honest, I don't know - everything you hear from Norwich days is about being a great man manager, but he also seems to have an energy then and mojo that doesn't exist any more.
A lot is made of the fact that Ian Culverhouse was his tactics guy, and that his other assistant Gary Karsa was his recruitment guy - both of whom were sacked for bullying at Villa - but he hasn't really done a great job anywhere since, has certainly done a serviceable job at both Blackburn and Wolves though.
From what I hear, when he first came in after Hurst, the players were relieved to have a 'proper manager' come in and liked him and what he was doing and trying to do - it just didn't work.
I think, and this is just purely reading between the lines, that he can do that motivation initially, get everyone on side and get it going - which was enough at Blackburn and Wolves, but failed narrowly at Stoke and then failed a tougher task here - but when it comes to implementing his own ideas on team setup, other than the basics he and his backroom staff don't have what it takes to do so.
And when results are bad, and players being blamed for it, methods are bad and you've lost respect - things that may have worked when things are going well just won't work when things are going badly as, like the fans' they get over analysed and become another reason why he is rubbish.
Last season we had 27 points after 11 games playing a relatively simple and stable 442 - we then started p155ing baout with mass rotation, postponing games, changing formation every week and picked up 25 points from our next 25 games.
The players have seen through him, and seen that he doesn't know what he is doing and it is a very unhappy camp from all i hear at all levels - it sounds untenable for him to continue |
Interesting stuff. If true, it seems these players are very quick to turn, because we've been going through managers at a fair rate of knots in recent years. Surely they need to stick with the top man longer than they have been, give him a fair crack?
I think you posted earlier that Evans has sat down with the players individually - is that all players, including youngsters? Regardless, he must now know what's wrong and for him it must be untenable too?
The problem is, he seems to have tried most routes in terms of style of manager. I like the idea of Dyer, but being as young and experienced as he is, would the (more senior, especially) players respect him enough? Because that seems a lot of the issues from what you're saying - players not respecting the top man. Unless Dyer got a wise old head to come in with him.
The only guy I can think of that we could now realistically get as a League 1 club, who the players would actually respect, is known as a good man manager, and would actually want the job, is George Burley. Apart from the 'being out of the game too long' aspect (which I'm not sure how big a deal that actually is) he seems to tick every other box. |  |
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| Have the EADT issued an apology yet. on 09:45 - Aug 30 with 3289 views | MonkeyAlan |
| Have the EADT issued an apology yet. on 22:06 - Aug 29 by PJH |
Or the senior pros care about the club and do not want someone ruining it even more than it was ruined by Hurst.
Their involvement (if any) in Hurst going might have prevented the disaster of getting relegated but as it happened it did not.
Performances on the pitch over the last two years have obviously generally not been good enough so in that respect the players are to blame but I think at any football club if the players have no faith or belief in the manager then it can only be the manager that goes. |
If the players cared that much they wouldn't be sulking so much and would be trying to do the best for the club. They clearly don't care or is it that they really arnt very good? |  | | |
| Have the EADT issued an apology yet. on 09:49 - Aug 30 with 3275 views | pointofblue |
| Have the EADT issued an apology yet. on 09:22 - Aug 30 by Terry_Nutkins |
If you are right Joe and do have connections in the team then yes that is untenable. I think the big squad of similar ability players is always going to go that way without the results.
He's going to start the season that seems clear. His only future is if we start well now..if we can get the results then morale etc can shift.
It's worrying if you are right and have this first hand. Huws certainly didnt suggest this to be the case the other day. Sounded a happy camp.
Time will tell but if its not just one or two bad eggs it wont be long if bad results then. |
I suppose there may be a point that the senior players go over Lambert’s head direct to Evans and say enough is enough. There came a time - his bizarre team selections post international break in the run up to and including the game at Leeds - where it was obvious that Hurst had completely lost it and yet, worryingly, Lambert did the same thing with the same result (1 point-per-game is relegation form) but kept his job.
My other concern is Taylor’s comments about the photo opportunity is making me wonder if he’s Hurst in a mask, back for revenge. It’s completely identical to what Hurst said in the summer of 18/19 and that hardly worked out well. How can you start making the same mistakes as your predecessor?
In relation to Evans’ appointments Keane had the wrong personality for the club from the off and I know people who had misgivings straight away. I always thought Jewell was a busted flush at the time of his appointment due to his awful record at Derby and that was unfortunately proven true, Mick was the right man for the job but became our version of Curbishley - could take us so far but not get us over the line due to the financial differences and the fans turned because of it. Hurst was a relatively popular appointment and had success moving up the tiers. I take no pleasure in thinking, as soon as I read the headline, that we should have kept him if Lambert was the alternative. | |
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| Have the EADT issued an apology yet. on 10:46 - Aug 30 with 3216 views | PJH |
| Have the EADT issued an apology yet. on 09:45 - Aug 30 by MonkeyAlan |
If the players cared that much they wouldn't be sulking so much and would be trying to do the best for the club. They clearly don't care or is it that they really arnt very good? |
Who said the players were sulking?
There is a difference between being unhappy and sulking.
At any or most places of work if the 'staff' have no respect for or belief in their bosses ability to do what he had supposed to do then it will probably not be a happy place of work. |  | | |
| Have the EADT issued an apology yet. on 11:02 - Aug 30 with 3193 views | itfcjoe |
| Have the EADT issued an apology yet. on 09:44 - Aug 30 by BrixtonBlue |
Interesting stuff. If true, it seems these players are very quick to turn, because we've been going through managers at a fair rate of knots in recent years. Surely they need to stick with the top man longer than they have been, give him a fair crack?
I think you posted earlier that Evans has sat down with the players individually - is that all players, including youngsters? Regardless, he must now know what's wrong and for him it must be untenable too?
The problem is, he seems to have tried most routes in terms of style of manager. I like the idea of Dyer, but being as young and experienced as he is, would the (more senior, especially) players respect him enough? Because that seems a lot of the issues from what you're saying - players not respecting the top man. Unless Dyer got a wise old head to come in with him.
The only guy I can think of that we could now realistically get as a League 1 club, who the players would actually respect, is known as a good man manager, and would actually want the job, is George Burley. Apart from the 'being out of the game too long' aspect (which I'm not sure how big a deal that actually is) he seems to tick every other box. |
I don't think it is about players being quick to turn, it's about them knowing that it isn't right - they've worked under other managers, who have friends and ex colleagues who do and when methods are strange and results terrible then they know it's not right
When the manager seems to be doing all he can to fall out with everyone then combined with these methods it's no surprise players have had enough of it all as it is their careers going down the pan
I think anyone who comes in and can set a team up, organise them, and not treat them like c*unts will be ok - guess we'll see, hopefully sooner rather than later | |
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| Have the EADT issued an apology yet. on 11:03 - Aug 30 with 3190 views | itfcjoe |
| Have the EADT issued an apology yet. on 09:45 - Aug 30 by MonkeyAlan |
If the players cared that much they wouldn't be sulking so much and would be trying to do the best for the club. They clearly don't care or is it that they really arnt very good? |
The players aren't sulking | |
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| Have the EADT issued an apology yet. on 11:07 - Aug 30 with 3181 views | Dyland |
| Have the EADT issued an apology yet. on 09:44 - Aug 30 by BrixtonBlue |
Interesting stuff. If true, it seems these players are very quick to turn, because we've been going through managers at a fair rate of knots in recent years. Surely they need to stick with the top man longer than they have been, give him a fair crack?
I think you posted earlier that Evans has sat down with the players individually - is that all players, including youngsters? Regardless, he must now know what's wrong and for him it must be untenable too?
The problem is, he seems to have tried most routes in terms of style of manager. I like the idea of Dyer, but being as young and experienced as he is, would the (more senior, especially) players respect him enough? Because that seems a lot of the issues from what you're saying - players not respecting the top man. Unless Dyer got a wise old head to come in with him.
The only guy I can think of that we could now realistically get as a League 1 club, who the players would actually respect, is known as a good man manager, and would actually want the job, is George Burley. Apart from the 'being out of the game too long' aspect (which I'm not sure how big a deal that actually is) he seems to tick every other box. |
"... because we've been going through managers at a fair rate of knots in recent years. "
Relatively this is not the case though. Evans is very very slow at moving managers on. They have all been abject failures except for McCarthy and would not have lasted even a third of the time at most clubs a similar size to Town.
A lot of our players are not as good as all that, of course, but it's not their fault the management or coaching etc. is also not good enough. We're hardly seeing player revolts.
The current bad morale is because Lambert has fooked it up, and Evans needs to get rid of him right now. |  |
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| Have the EADT issued an apology yet. on 11:09 - Aug 30 with 3178 views | Dyland |
| Have the EADT issued an apology yet. on 11:02 - Aug 30 by itfcjoe |
I don't think it is about players being quick to turn, it's about them knowing that it isn't right - they've worked under other managers, who have friends and ex colleagues who do and when methods are strange and results terrible then they know it's not right
When the manager seems to be doing all he can to fall out with everyone then combined with these methods it's no surprise players have had enough of it all as it is their careers going down the pan
I think anyone who comes in and can set a team up, organise them, and not treat them like c*unts will be ok - guess we'll see, hopefully sooner rather than later |
"I think anyone who comes in and can set a team up, organise them, and not treat them like c*unts will be ok"
I think I prefer acerbic Joe to reasonable Joe :) | |
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| Have the EADT issued an apology yet. on 11:12 - Aug 30 with 3174 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Have the EADT issued an apology yet. on 11:02 - Aug 30 by itfcjoe |
I don't think it is about players being quick to turn, it's about them knowing that it isn't right - they've worked under other managers, who have friends and ex colleagues who do and when methods are strange and results terrible then they know it's not right
When the manager seems to be doing all he can to fall out with everyone then combined with these methods it's no surprise players have had enough of it all as it is their careers going down the pan
I think anyone who comes in and can set a team up, organise them, and not treat them like c*unts will be ok - guess we'll see, hopefully sooner rather than later |
We've been through a lot of managers (for us) in recent years. Have all of them, except Mick, been unable to set a team up, organise them, and not treat them like c*unts?! | |
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| Have the EADT issued an apology yet. on 11:21 - Aug 30 with 3159 views | MonkeyAlan |
| Have the EADT issued an apology yet. on 10:46 - Aug 30 by PJH |
Who said the players were sulking?
There is a difference between being unhappy and sulking.
At any or most places of work if the 'staff' have no respect for or belief in their bosses ability to do what he had supposed to do then it will probably not be a happy place of work. |
You still have to get on with it, or find a new job though ? If they arnt happy then its showing in the way they are performing isnt it ? They havent been happy for 0ver 2 years now,which begs the question they just want their own way ? They certainly havent performed on the pitch in years, either man up and play or ship out. Or as l said before, they really arnt that good ? | | | |
| Have the EADT issued an apology yet. on 11:29 - Aug 30 with 3141 views | Horsham |
| Have the EADT issued an apology yet. on 11:12 - Aug 30 by BrixtonBlue |
We've been through a lot of managers (for us) in recent years. Have all of them, except Mick, been unable to set a team up, organise them, and not treat them like c*unts?! |
I’m intrigued, is your backing for Lambert out ornaments loyalty to the club and a desire to support it or do you genuinely believe he’ll turn it around? |  | | |
| Have the EADT issued an apology yet. on 11:41 - Aug 30 with 3112 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Have the EADT issued an apology yet. on 11:29 - Aug 30 by Horsham |
I’m intrigued, is your backing for Lambert out ornaments loyalty to the club and a desire to support it or do you genuinely believe he’ll turn it around? |
Erm, you wanna run that by me again? | |
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| Have the EADT issued an apology yet. on 11:43 - Aug 30 with 3107 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| Have the EADT issued an apology yet. on 22:23 - Aug 29 by DublinBlue84 |
Interesting to see some posters here are critical of Evans for appointing Hurst, despite the fact that at the time they were supportive of appointing Hurst because he was apparently the kind of young and up and coming manager that Evans should have appointed earlier.
Hurst was a disaster, but the idea that he was a bad appointment and it was a terrible decision at the time by Evans was not the verdict from our fanbase at that time and to say otherwise is re-writing history.
I also remember a large number of our fans wetting themselves over Roy Keane being appointed at the time and anyone who warned how it would turn out because of his volatile nature was shot down.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but lets not pretend that all of our fanbase were dead against al Evans appointments when they were made, because that isn't true. Yes, they turned out badly, but Hurst had the unanimous backing of here at time of appointment. [Post edited 29 Aug 2020 22:28]
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Hurst STILL has a better PPG average than Paul Cook believe it or not. |  |
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| Have the EADT issued an apology yet. on 11:59 - Aug 30 with 3073 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| Have the EADT issued an apology yet. on 11:12 - Aug 30 by BrixtonBlue |
We've been through a lot of managers (for us) in recent years. Have all of them, except Mick, been unable to set a team up, organise them, and not treat them like c*unts?! |
Exactly this. We come back round to the fact that there MUST be something rotten with in the club. Lambert is just a symptom of that, not the cause.
14 permanent managers in 70 years pre Evans, thats one every 5 years on average
Since Evans 6 in 12 years, You can do the maths on that yourselves.
Evans may move slowly to pull the trigger, but he certainly pulls it with regularity.
If any one can name me another club that has had as much rotten luck with managers over the course of a decade, i'd be intrigued.
The whole club needs a culture shift, and that needs to start with Evans appraising his own performance as the owner. He's said himself on many occasions that he sees himself as custodian of the club, I think he needs to analyse if he is actually hindering the clubs progression. [Post edited 30 Aug 2020 12:00]
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| Have the EADT issued an apology yet. on 12:00 - Aug 30 with 3070 views | itfcjoe |
| Have the EADT issued an apology yet. on 11:12 - Aug 30 by BrixtonBlue |
We've been through a lot of managers (for us) in recent years. Have all of them, except Mick, been unable to set a team up, organise them, and not treat them like c*unts?! |
Have we really though? Bar 15 games of Hurst all managers have been given time, and in reality too much from all of MEs previous appointments (Keane, Jewell, Mick and now Lambert) | |
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| Have the EADT issued an apology yet. on 12:01 - Aug 30 with 3066 views | Horsham |
| Have the EADT issued an apology yet. on 11:41 - Aug 30 by BrixtonBlue |
Erm, you wanna run that by me again? |
Nah, I’ve hurt my brain now. I’m neither use nor ornament! | | | |
| Have the EADT issued an apology yet. on 12:02 - Aug 30 with 3065 views | itfcjoe |
| Have the EADT issued an apology yet. on 11:59 - Aug 30 by Cheltenham_Blue |
Exactly this. We come back round to the fact that there MUST be something rotten with in the club. Lambert is just a symptom of that, not the cause.
14 permanent managers in 70 years pre Evans, thats one every 5 years on average
Since Evans 6 in 12 years, You can do the maths on that yourselves.
Evans may move slowly to pull the trigger, but he certainly pulls it with regularity.
If any one can name me another club that has had as much rotten luck with managers over the course of a decade, i'd be intrigued.
The whole club needs a culture shift, and that needs to start with Evans appraising his own performance as the owner. He's said himself on many occasions that he sees himself as custodian of the club, I think he needs to analyse if he is actually hindering the clubs progression. [Post edited 30 Aug 2020 12:00]
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There probably isn’t More than 10 clubs in the 92 that have had less than 6 managers over the last 12 years, the game has massively changed so we should be comparing to our peers rather than our history | |
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| Have the EADT issued an apology yet. on 12:02 - Aug 30 with 3062 views | Mullet |
| Have the EADT issued an apology yet. on 11:07 - Aug 30 by Dyland |
"... because we've been going through managers at a fair rate of knots in recent years. "
Relatively this is not the case though. Evans is very very slow at moving managers on. They have all been abject failures except for McCarthy and would not have lasted even a third of the time at most clubs a similar size to Town.
A lot of our players are not as good as all that, of course, but it's not their fault the management or coaching etc. is also not good enough. We're hardly seeing player revolts.
The current bad morale is because Lambert has fooked it up, and Evans needs to get rid of him right now. |
We've only had one manager appointed by Evans. |  |
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| Have the EADT issued an apology yet. on 12:06 - Aug 30 with 3044 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| Have the EADT issued an apology yet. on 12:02 - Aug 30 by itfcjoe |
There probably isn’t More than 10 clubs in the 92 that have had less than 6 managers over the last 12 years, the game has massively changed so we should be comparing to our peers rather than our history |
My point was Joe, and remains, that Evans does indeed pull the trigger, as opposed to "moving at the pace of a sloth"
If Evans has spoken to the players, as you suggest, then it seems rather counter intuitive for someone who is ultimately a very successful businessman, to start the season with Lambert.
Unless of course, he does so in the knowledge that there is a break clause in Lamberts contract. | |
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| Have the EADT issued an apology yet. on 12:12 - Aug 30 with 3026 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Have the EADT issued an apology yet. on 12:02 - Aug 30 by itfcjoe |
There probably isn’t More than 10 clubs in the 92 that have had less than 6 managers over the last 12 years, the game has massively changed so we should be comparing to our peers rather than our history |
I disagree. What made Ipswich great was precisely not doing the same as everyone else.
The bottom line is Evans has a very poor record of choosing managers. | |
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| Have the EADT issued an apology yet. on 12:21 - Aug 30 with 2996 views | pointofblue |
| Have the EADT issued an apology yet. on 11:12 - Aug 30 by BrixtonBlue |
We've been through a lot of managers (for us) in recent years. Have all of them, except Mick, been unable to set a team up, organise them, and not treat them like c*unts?! |
Keane couldn’t set up or organise the players and treated them badly.
Jewell couldn’t set up or organise but I think, in general, treated the players well.
Mick generally got the team organised and was well liked but ended up with a them v us culture against the fans.
Hurst failed at everything.
It sounds like Lambert started reasonably capable - for those about to dispute this we did seem to have a plan in 18/19 and there was a case for the much fabled ‘improved performances’ but that all fell apart last year. | |
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| Have the EADT issued an apology yet. on 12:23 - Aug 30 with 2989 views | PJH |
| Have the EADT issued an apology yet. on 12:12 - Aug 30 by BrixtonBlue |
I disagree. What made Ipswich great was precisely not doing the same as everyone else.
The bottom line is Evans has a very poor record of choosing managers. |
Your bottom line is 100% correct when the appointments are looked at in hindsight but despite four out of five of them turning out to be bad appointments I think there was logic in each of the selections at the time.
I do not think anyone, even including ME, would say that his record of choosing managers was anything other than very poor but that has to be taken with hindsight. | | | |
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