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Science bods... can you help? I think I've solved the mystery of the universe. 11:42 - Jan 20 with 34039 viewsBrixtonBlue

They say the universe started with a big bang... but you can't have something just appearing out of nothing. Therefore, the universe can't have a beginning - and yet must do (because it exists). A paradox.

Similarly, if the universe is expanding (like they say it is), what is it expanding into? And whatever that is, what is on the other side of THAT? Therefore, the universe must go on forever... and yet can't do (everything has an end or edge). Another paradox.

Both of these paradoxes suggest the universe shouldn't exist. Its existence doesn't make sense.

Well surely then, the only logical conclusion is that it DOESN'T exist?!

It's either a figment of our imagination... or a purposely created virtual reality?

I appreciate this last bit isn't a new idea (The Matrix) - but how else do you explain the two paradoxes?

I hope someone can answer soon as I'm off to the Royal Observatory at Greenwich to watch a couple of shows about space and I don't want it to be a waste of time!

I bet Bloots will downarrow this.
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Science bods... can you help? I think I've solved the mystery of the universe. on 07:08 - Jan 21 with 2973 viewsDanTheMan

Science bods... can you help? I think I've solved the mystery of the universe. on 20:47 - Jan 20 by BrixtonBlue

That is a nice little video... but in the raisin loaf and balloon analogies, they're still expanding 'into' something. But I think I get it when you say stretching. Still... the coming into being from nothing doesn't make sense.


Indeed, that is where the analogy fails. What is very hard to get your head round is that there may not need to be physical room for it to expand into.

Any explanation I do will give it no justice though. There's a more full explanation here:
http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/about-us/104-the-universe/cosmology-and-the-big

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Science bods... can you help? I think I've solved the mystery of the universe. on 08:17 - Jan 21 with 2948 viewstcblue

The problem is that we all know physics based on what we know exists now, but all of the observable (or even theorised) things, including how matter works and spatial relativity, we think was created by the singularity. So, it is like having to imagine what the entire world looks like without ever leaving a cave (science calls this 'Bentersism').

We aren't capable of understanding things outside of the human condition. Same concept applies if you try to imagine what death is like - well, you can't as it isn't observable.
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Science bods... can you help? I think I've solved the mystery of the universe. on 09:53 - Jan 21 with 2926 viewsOxford_Blue

Why do you assume that something can’t arise from nothing or that it needs a beginning?

Read Laurence Strauss.

Our small minds are programmed to think of things in a certain way and apply the rules we see to everything around us.

The origin of the universe may well fall outside our understanding. It probably does.
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Science bods... can you help? I think I've solved the mystery of the universe. on 10:09 - Jan 21 with 2920 viewsBloomBlue

Science bods... can you help? I think I've solved the mystery of the universe. on 09:53 - Jan 21 by Oxford_Blue

Why do you assume that something can’t arise from nothing or that it needs a beginning?

Read Laurence Strauss.

Our small minds are programmed to think of things in a certain way and apply the rules we see to everything around us.

The origin of the universe may well fall outside our understanding. It probably does.


That's why people struggle to accept God created it
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Science bods... can you help? I think I've solved the mystery of the universe. on 10:16 - Jan 21 with 2907 viewsBrixtonBlue

Science bods... can you help? I think I've solved the mystery of the universe. on 08:17 - Jan 21 by tcblue

The problem is that we all know physics based on what we know exists now, but all of the observable (or even theorised) things, including how matter works and spatial relativity, we think was created by the singularity. So, it is like having to imagine what the entire world looks like without ever leaving a cave (science calls this 'Bentersism').

We aren't capable of understanding things outside of the human condition. Same concept applies if you try to imagine what death is like - well, you can't as it isn't observable.


That's a really good way of looking at it (and I'd give you another uppie for Bentersism if I could!)

I bet Bloots will downarrow this.
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Science bods... can you help? I think I've solved the mystery of the universe. on 10:39 - Jan 21 with 2897 viewsStokieBlue

There is a misconception that the big bang theory states the beginning of the universe when it actually describes how the expansion of the universe was governed. It assumes that energy was already existent (all you need due to E=MC^2) and that inflation was possible (exponential growth of the universe faster than the speed of light). We simply don’t understand the universe at the point of inception.

There are many theories with regards to the cause of the big bang, a few would be:

Elastic universe — this basically states that at some point in the expansion of the universe the force of gravity overcomes the expansionist force and the universe contracts to a singularity and then restarts again with another big bang.

Branes — this is the theory that our universe is one of many floating within a branes and that new universes are spawned when branes collide.

Big Bang — just that there was some form of energy that suddenly inflated.

The universe is definitely expanding, it’s confirmed. Since the universe by definition contains everything it’s not expanding into anything, it’s just expanding — I know this is mind-bending.

The simulation hypothesis is well known although impossible to prove or disprove at the moment. There have been suggestions on how to prove it given computational power should be finite but nothing has actually been tested (as far as I know). If you extend this to the fact that the universe is pretty much ideal for human life (well Earth is) and that hints at a design there (simulation) is a theory (weak anthropic principle) that multiple universes as spawned during a big bang process and we inhabit the one we are able to inhabit — we wouldn’t be able to exist in the others (specifically WAP - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropic_principle)

If you want to get weirded out then have a read about Boltzmann Brains ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boltzmann_brain). It’s theoretically possible for a fully functioning entity to just pop into existence in the universe due to space time fluctuations. Incredibly improbable but that’s different to impossible.

Interesting questions Dollers.

SB

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Science bods... can you help? I think I've solved the mystery of the universe. on 10:40 - Jan 21 with 2896 viewssparks

Science bods... can you help? I think I've solved the mystery of the universe. on 10:09 - Jan 21 by BloomBlue

That's why people struggle to accept God created it


Its not a struggle. Merely the default rational position in the absence of any worthwhile evidence for a creator god.

The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it. (Sir Terry Pratchett)
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Science bods... can you help? I think I've solved the mystery of the universe. on 10:42 - Jan 21 with 2886 viewsOxford_Blue

Science bods... can you help? I think I've solved the mystery of the universe. on 13:50 - Jan 20 by BloomBlue

God created the universe


Ah the good old “we don’t know the answer so god of the gaps must have done it”.

Which god? Thor? Mohammed? Zeus? Yarweh?

How do you know? Oh, because some other humans who know a lot less than you and I do about the world made claims in a book?
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Science bods... can you help? I think I've solved the mystery of the universe. on 10:44 - Jan 21 with 2884 viewschicoazul

Science bods... can you help? I think I've solved the mystery of the universe. on 10:42 - Jan 21 by Oxford_Blue

Ah the good old “we don’t know the answer so god of the gaps must have done it”.

Which god? Thor? Mohammed? Zeus? Yarweh?

How do you know? Oh, because some other humans who know a lot less than you and I do about the world made claims in a book?


The Lord moves in a mysterious way, his wonders to perform. He plants His footsteps in the sea and rides upon the storm.

In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
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Science bods... can you help? I think I've solved the mystery of the universe. on 10:45 - Jan 21 with 2882 viewsBrixtonBlue

Science bods... can you help? I think I've solved the mystery of the universe. on 10:39 - Jan 21 by StokieBlue

There is a misconception that the big bang theory states the beginning of the universe when it actually describes how the expansion of the universe was governed. It assumes that energy was already existent (all you need due to E=MC^2) and that inflation was possible (exponential growth of the universe faster than the speed of light). We simply don’t understand the universe at the point of inception.

There are many theories with regards to the cause of the big bang, a few would be:

Elastic universe — this basically states that at some point in the expansion of the universe the force of gravity overcomes the expansionist force and the universe contracts to a singularity and then restarts again with another big bang.

Branes — this is the theory that our universe is one of many floating within a branes and that new universes are spawned when branes collide.

Big Bang — just that there was some form of energy that suddenly inflated.

The universe is definitely expanding, it’s confirmed. Since the universe by definition contains everything it’s not expanding into anything, it’s just expanding — I know this is mind-bending.

The simulation hypothesis is well known although impossible to prove or disprove at the moment. There have been suggestions on how to prove it given computational power should be finite but nothing has actually been tested (as far as I know). If you extend this to the fact that the universe is pretty much ideal for human life (well Earth is) and that hints at a design there (simulation) is a theory (weak anthropic principle) that multiple universes as spawned during a big bang process and we inhabit the one we are able to inhabit — we wouldn’t be able to exist in the others (specifically WAP - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropic_principle)

If you want to get weirded out then have a read about Boltzmann Brains ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boltzmann_brain). It’s theoretically possible for a fully functioning entity to just pop into existence in the universe due to space time fluctuations. Incredibly improbable but that’s different to impossible.

Interesting questions Dollers.

SB


Cheers Stokers, fascinating stuff. I've order the book Sparks recommended.

I bet Bloots will downarrow this.
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Science bods... can you help? I think I've solved the mystery of the universe. on 10:48 - Jan 21 with 2867 viewsSwansea_Blue

I'd stick to sausages if I was you

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Science bods... can you help? I think I've solved the mystery of the universe. on 11:29 - Jan 21 with 2825 viewsOxford_Blue

Science bods... can you help? I think I've solved the mystery of the universe. on 10:44 - Jan 21 by chicoazul

The Lord moves in a mysterious way, his wonders to perform. He plants His footsteps in the sea and rides upon the storm.


Except when he answers prayers or commands believers to do certain things, including killing non believers, there is noting mysterious about it apparently.
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Science bods... can you help? I think I've solved the mystery of the universe. on 11:38 - Jan 21 with 2817 viewsOxford_Blue

Science bods... can you help? I think I've solved the mystery of the universe. on 10:40 - Jan 21 by sparks

Its not a struggle. Merely the default rational position in the absence of any worthwhile evidence for a creator god.


Particularly as science has provided the explanation for things that previously it was believed god did.

Eg Illness = germ theory, not evil spirits

Evolution
Weather
Tides
Etc etc
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Science bods... can you help? I think I've solved the mystery of the universe. on 12:27 - Jan 21 with 2798 viewsBrixtonBlue

Science bods... can you help? I think I've solved the mystery of the universe. on 11:38 - Jan 21 by Oxford_Blue

Particularly as science has provided the explanation for things that previously it was believed god did.

Eg Illness = germ theory, not evil spirits

Evolution
Weather
Tides
Etc etc


*Something* supernatural is going on though - by virtue of the fact that the universe exists at all. You could call it 'God' if you wanted (not talking about the Gods of man-made religions BTW).

I bet Bloots will downarrow this.
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Science bods... can you help? I think I've solved the mystery of the universe. on 12:32 - Jan 21 with 2791 viewsStokieBlue

Science bods... can you help? I think I've solved the mystery of the universe. on 12:27 - Jan 21 by BrixtonBlue

*Something* supernatural is going on though - by virtue of the fact that the universe exists at all. You could call it 'God' if you wanted (not talking about the Gods of man-made religions BTW).


Before gravity was understood things still stayed rooted to the ground. People might have said it was supernatural but as we know now it was just lack of knowledge.

There is nothing that would allow the one to draw the conclusion that anything supernatural is going on in this case.

SB

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Science bods... can you help? I think I've solved the mystery of the universe. on 12:37 - Jan 21 with 2784 viewsOldsmoker

About this God thing.
There are 8 major religion/belief systems in the world.
Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Bhuddism, Hinduism, Sikhism, Taoism and Confucianism.
They all claim a creator and that theirs is the only true faith/belief.
If only one is the true faith then it stands to reason that the rest are false. So, have you picked the right faith/belief because if you haven't then your afterlife is going to be hell.

Don't believe a word I say. I'm only kidding. Or am I?
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Science bods... can you help? I think I've solved the mystery of the universe. on 12:43 - Jan 21 with 2775 viewsOxford_Blue

Science bods... can you help? I think I've solved the mystery of the universe. on 12:27 - Jan 21 by BrixtonBlue

*Something* supernatural is going on though - by virtue of the fact that the universe exists at all. You could call it 'God' if you wanted (not talking about the Gods of man-made religions BTW).


That’s Einstein’s definition of God - without the supernatural element.

He certainly didn’t believe in a theistic deity.
[Post edited 21 Jan 2019 12:47]
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Science bods... can you help? I think I've solved the mystery of the universe. on 12:45 - Jan 21 with 2766 viewssparks

Science bods... can you help? I think I've solved the mystery of the universe. on 12:27 - Jan 21 by BrixtonBlue

*Something* supernatural is going on though - by virtue of the fact that the universe exists at all. You could call it 'God' if you wanted (not talking about the Gods of man-made religions BTW).


Thats a fallacious conclusion. Something we dont understand is involved. That does not make it supernatural. What is 'supernatural' anyway? How could we ever test for it?

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Science bods... can you help? I think I've solved the mystery of the universe. on 12:45 - Jan 21 with 2766 viewsOxford_Blue

Science bods... can you help? I think I've solved the mystery of the universe. on 12:27 - Jan 21 by BrixtonBlue

*Something* supernatural is going on though - by virtue of the fact that the universe exists at all. You could call it 'God' if you wanted (not talking about the Gods of man-made religions BTW).


Supernatural means an event which suspends the natural order, like someone coming back from
the dead or conceiving a child without insemination.

The start - if there was one - of nature itself cannot by defitnion be the suspension of natural order.
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Science bods... can you help? I think I've solved the mystery of the universe. on 12:46 - Jan 21 with 2762 viewsRyorry

Science bods... can you help? I think I've solved the mystery of the universe. on 12:37 - Jan 21 by Oldsmoker

About this God thing.
There are 8 major religion/belief systems in the world.
Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Bhuddism, Hinduism, Sikhism, Taoism and Confucianism.
They all claim a creator and that theirs is the only true faith/belief.
If only one is the true faith then it stands to reason that the rest are false. So, have you picked the right faith/belief because if you haven't then your afterlife is going to be hell.


9 "major religion/belief systems in the world" - you forgot atheism!
10 if you include humanism.
[Post edited 21 Jan 2019 12:47]

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Science bods... can you help? I think I've solved the mystery of the universe. on 12:49 - Jan 21 with 2752 viewsOxford_Blue

Science bods... can you help? I think I've solved the mystery of the universe. on 12:46 - Jan 21 by Ryorry

9 "major religion/belief systems in the world" - you forgot atheism!
10 if you include humanism.
[Post edited 21 Jan 2019 12:47]


Atheism is the absence of a belief (by definition) in theism.

It works on the logical premise that the starting point is not that everything infinitely coneceivable exists until it is proven not to exist; but that only that for which there is at least reasonable evidence should be taken to exist.
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Science bods... can you help? I think I've solved the mystery of the universe. on 12:51 - Jan 21 with 2746 viewsOxford_Blue

Science bods... can you help? I think I've solved the mystery of the universe. on 12:37 - Jan 21 by Oldsmoker

About this God thing.
There are 8 major religion/belief systems in the world.
Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Bhuddism, Hinduism, Sikhism, Taoism and Confucianism.
They all claim a creator and that theirs is the only true faith/belief.
If only one is the true faith then it stands to reason that the rest are false. So, have you picked the right faith/belief because if you haven't then your afterlife is going to be hell.


Isn’t is more likely not that 7 of them are untrue and 1 is true, but that they alre all untrue?
[Post edited 21 Jan 2019 12:52]
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Science bods... can you help? I think I've solved the mystery of the universe. on 12:54 - Jan 21 with 2740 viewsRyorry

Science bods... can you help? I think I've solved the mystery of the universe. on 12:49 - Jan 21 by Oxford_Blue

Atheism is the absence of a belief (by definition) in theism.

It works on the logical premise that the starting point is not that everything infinitely coneceivable exists until it is proven not to exist; but that only that for which there is at least reasonable evidence should be taken to exist.


Belief in the absence of a belief then.

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Science bods... can you help? I think I've solved the mystery of the universe. on 12:54 - Jan 21 with 2740 viewsOldsmoker

Science bods... can you help? I think I've solved the mystery of the universe. on 12:46 - Jan 21 by Ryorry

9 "major religion/belief systems in the world" - you forgot atheism!
10 if you include humanism.
[Post edited 21 Jan 2019 12:47]


I get your point Ryorry - you could include Scientology as well.
But I did say "major" and perhaps I should have inserted the word "organised" as well because that would leave just 8.
Atheism, Humaism are not really organised are they?

Don't believe a word I say. I'm only kidding. Or am I?
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Science bods... can you help? I think I've solved the mystery of the universe. on 12:54 - Jan 21 with 2740 viewsMJallday

i could explain it but you wouldn't understand so im just going to say "Magic"

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