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The World Health Organization said on Saturday there was currently “no evidence” that people who have recovered from coronavirus are protected from a second infection — even if they now have antibodies against it.
In a statement, the UN health agency warned against issuing “immunity passports” or “risk-free certificates” to people who have been infected, saying the practice may actually increase the risk of spread as they may ignore standard advice.
It also warned that the accuracy and reliability of tests for antibodies to coronavirus were not certain.
“Inaccurate immunodiagnostic tests may falsely categorise people in two ways,” the WHO’s latest scientific brief said. “The first is that they may falsely label people who have been infected as negative, and the second is that people who have not been infected are falsely labelled as positive. Both errors have serious consequences and will affect control efforts.”
That essentially goes against what most countries seem to be planning to do to ease or lift the lockdowns.
SB
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WHO not keen on easing lockdowns with immunity passports on 18:10 - Apr 25 with 1405 views
WHO not keen on easing lockdowns with immunity passports on 17:09 - Apr 25 by monytowbray
I’ve told you already, you can get answers from me to questions from me when you acknowledge you lied about who raised ventilators in a thread. Until then, you can read and you know how to use the internet.
The option is there but someone doesn’t like what they might have to admit if they even acknowledge what I’ve asked you multiple times. Ammarite?
WHO not keen on easing lockdowns with immunity passports on 18:10 - Apr 25 by Ely_Blue
I have no high horse. Stokie knows EXACTLY what I think of him. For someone so annoyed he’s being misrepresented you think he’d be keen to clear his name in that regard but he won’t.
Because he knows if he answers my question he wouldn’t like what he has to admit.
WHO not keen on easing lockdowns with immunity passports on 18:19 - Apr 25 by GlasgowBlue
It's all a game to Callis. Winning the internet is what counts for him.
I think Stokie is taking the same route as I am and no longer taking the bait.
You see this is where you are wrong. Stokie is playing a game. Always is. Problem is he’s slipped on his own dice roll and now he’s pretending he never rolled the dice in the first place.
Who’d have thought the centralist in denial about actually being right wing and the right winger would become peas in a pod?
WHO not keen on easing lockdowns with immunity passports on 18:13 - Apr 25 by monytowbray
I have no high horse. Stokie knows EXACTLY what I think of him. For someone so annoyed he’s being misrepresented you think he’d be keen to clear his name in that regard but he won’t.
Because he knows if he answers my question he wouldn’t like what he has to admit.
Right, I am sick of this now. It's all in the original thread but you are once again misrepresenting what happened.
In that thread I said you mentioned ventilators first, this was incorrect and I clarified it in my next post with what I actually meant which was that you attached PPE to the ventilators scheme first and then rammed it home by saying many times that if we joined the ventilator scheme we would have gotten more PPE already. That was incorrect as no PPE has yet been delivered to the EU and will take from 2 to 18 weeks. You ignored this multiple times because it didn't suit your point and focused on the ventilator post rather than the PPE which was the main point. You then accused me multiple times of gaslighting you and called me a sh1t. Admin agreed that I hadn't done that and all your posts referring to it were removed.
Since then you've lied about my views on three threads and refused to back up your posts with evidence. You told others I am a liar and you've told them I am playing games but only you can see it. You've attacked my character at every opportunity. You made me question what I had written previously on this board and if anyone is gaslighting it is you (this thread is a prime example, I had to do Google site search to make sure I was right in not writing what you had claimed - for your information I was right). I have not responded to your posts for many days however you have called me out on multiple threads.
You constantly rewrite history to your own ends with regards to many posters and it constantly has to be edited out of history by the admin. How you get away with it is beyond me.
I'm not the only person you've either lied about or besmirched in the last week. You are unable to debate. You ignore points you don't agree with, lie about ones people have made and have a tantrum if you get stuck.
Your general behaviour on this board is totally unacceptable in my opinion and you seem to be doing your best to stop me coming here because at the moment you are making it quite an unpleasant place to be. I don't come here to have to continually defend myself from the likes of you.
Leave me alone and stop lying about me and my character.
SB
[Post edited 25 Apr 2020 18:36]
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WHO not keen on easing lockdowns with immunity passports on 18:39 - Apr 25 with 1361 views
WHO not keen on easing lockdowns with immunity passports on 18:34 - Apr 25 by StokieBlue
Right, I am sick of this now. It's all in the original thread but you are once again misrepresenting what happened.
In that thread I said you mentioned ventilators first, this was incorrect and I clarified it in my next post with what I actually meant which was that you attached PPE to the ventilators scheme first and then rammed it home by saying many times that if we joined the ventilator scheme we would have gotten more PPE already. That was incorrect as no PPE has yet been delivered to the EU and will take from 2 to 18 weeks. You ignored this multiple times because it didn't suit your point and focused on the ventilator post rather than the PPE which was the main point. You then accused me multiple times of gaslighting you and called me a sh1t. Admin agreed that I hadn't done that and all your posts referring to it were removed.
Since then you've lied about my views on three threads and refused to back up your posts with evidence. You told others I am a liar and you've told them I am playing games but only you can see it. You've attacked my character at every opportunity. You made me question what I had written previously on this board and if anyone is gaslighting it is you (this thread is a prime example, I had to do Google site search to make sure I was right in not writing what you had claimed - for your information I was right). I have not responded to your posts for many days however you have called me out on multiple threads.
You constantly rewrite history to your own ends with regards to many posters and it constantly has to be edited out of history by the admin. How you get away with it is beyond me.
I'm not the only person you've either lied about or besmirched in the last week. You are unable to debate. You ignore points you don't agree with, lie about ones people have made and have a tantrum if you get stuck.
Your general behaviour on this board is totally unacceptable in my opinion and you seem to be doing your best to stop me coming here because at the moment you are making it quite an unpleasant place to be. I don't come here to have to continually defend myself from the likes of you.
Leave me alone and stop lying about me and my character.
SB
[Post edited 25 Apr 2020 18:36]
Fcuk this Stokie. I'm going in the garden for a beer and a burger.
WHO not keen on easing lockdowns with immunity passports on 18:34 - Apr 25 by StokieBlue
Right, I am sick of this now. It's all in the original thread but you are once again misrepresenting what happened.
In that thread I said you mentioned ventilators first, this was incorrect and I clarified it in my next post with what I actually meant which was that you attached PPE to the ventilators scheme first and then rammed it home by saying many times that if we joined the ventilator scheme we would have gotten more PPE already. That was incorrect as no PPE has yet been delivered to the EU and will take from 2 to 18 weeks. You ignored this multiple times because it didn't suit your point and focused on the ventilator post rather than the PPE which was the main point. You then accused me multiple times of gaslighting you and called me a sh1t. Admin agreed that I hadn't done that and all your posts referring to it were removed.
Since then you've lied about my views on three threads and refused to back up your posts with evidence. You told others I am a liar and you've told them I am playing games but only you can see it. You've attacked my character at every opportunity. You made me question what I had written previously on this board and if anyone is gaslighting it is you (this thread is a prime example, I had to do Google site search to make sure I was right in not writing what you had claimed - for your information I was right). I have not responded to your posts for many days however you have called me out on multiple threads.
You constantly rewrite history to your own ends with regards to many posters and it constantly has to be edited out of history by the admin. How you get away with it is beyond me.
I'm not the only person you've either lied about or besmirched in the last week. You are unable to debate. You ignore points you don't agree with, lie about ones people have made and have a tantrum if you get stuck.
Your general behaviour on this board is totally unacceptable in my opinion and you seem to be doing your best to stop me coming here because at the moment you are making it quite an unpleasant place to be. I don't come here to have to continually defend myself from the likes of you.
Leave me alone and stop lying about me and my character.
SB
[Post edited 25 Apr 2020 18:36]
“ In that thread I said you mentioned ventilators first, this was incorrect and I clarified it in my next post with what I actually meant which was that you attached PPE to the ventilators scheme first and then rammed it home by saying many times that if we joined the ventilator scheme we would have gotten more PPE already.”
You never once admitted being incorrect on that. Nor did I claim we’d have more PPE by by now. I said the EU scheme included PPE when Glassers went for his deflection tactic that has become a parody by this point.
WHO not keen on easing lockdowns with immunity passports on 18:39 - Apr 25 by GlasgowBlue
Fcuk this Stokie. I'm going in the garden for a beer and a burger.
He is sucking the energy out of this place.
Personally I’m finding your new angle of trying to claim everyone’s a troll now because you’ve spent 6 weeks sat on the wrong side of the fence but your heels are dug in too deep is your best swerve to date.
WHO not keen on easing lockdowns with immunity passports on 18:43 - Apr 25 by monytowbray
Personally I’m finding your new angle of trying to claim everyone’s a troll now because you’ve spent 6 weeks sat on the wrong side of the fence but your heels are dug in too deep is your best swerve to date.
Never change.
Does your “I’m a tvvat “ side ever take a day off? Even at the weekend? I guess there are some people in life who just can’t help wanting to cause a fight or argument.
I’m sure if you were left in an empty room for long enough you’d cause a fight with yourself, you just can’t hep yourself.
You are one of the biggest trolls that I think I have ever seen or encountered, you have to try and cause controversy or push people’s buttons wherever you post, be that here, on twitter or even on the it for fans page on Facebook, you just can’t help yourself.
You young man have some serious life problems that you need to deal with.
I’m off for a beer too, oh and you can post what the fck you want in reply dear fella as you have finally done enough to join my ignore list, the forum will be a much more pleasant place for me to be.
WHO not keen on easing lockdowns with immunity passports on 18:43 - Apr 25 by monytowbray
Personally I’m finding your new angle of trying to claim everyone’s a troll now because you’ve spent 6 weeks sat on the wrong side of the fence but your heels are dug in too deep is your best swerve to date.
Never change.
For somebody who claims to be an adult, you can be extremely childish sometimes.
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WHO not keen on easing lockdowns with immunity passports on 18:59 - Apr 25 with 1311 views
WHO not keen on easing lockdowns with immunity passports on 18:51 - Apr 25 by Ely_Blue
Does your “I’m a tvvat “ side ever take a day off? Even at the weekend? I guess there are some people in life who just can’t help wanting to cause a fight or argument.
I’m sure if you were left in an empty room for long enough you’d cause a fight with yourself, you just can’t hep yourself.
You are one of the biggest trolls that I think I have ever seen or encountered, you have to try and cause controversy or push people’s buttons wherever you post, be that here, on twitter or even on the it for fans page on Facebook, you just can’t help yourself.
You young man have some serious life problems that you need to deal with.
I’m off for a beer too, oh and you can post what the fck you want in reply dear fella as you have finally done enough to join my ignore list, the forum will be a much more pleasant place for me to be.
This thread has aged SUPERBLY.
#JohnsonMustGo trending on Twitter by monytowbray17 Mar 2020 2:17 I hope his press conference tomorrow puts some strong business and vulnerable people support in place. Although I have no idea what could be done at this point. It’s political unchartered territory.
Why can’t we just have all the info now? Or is this like a Netflix series with a cliffhanger at the end of every episode? What’s episode 3? More information about the pumps teaser?
WHO not keen on easing lockdowns with immunity passports on 18:59 - Apr 25 by monytowbray
This thread has aged SUPERBLY.
#JohnsonMustGo trending on Twitter by monytowbray17 Mar 2020 2:17 I hope his press conference tomorrow puts some strong business and vulnerable people support in place. Although I have no idea what could be done at this point. It’s political unchartered territory.
Why can’t we just have all the info now? Or is this like a Netflix series with a cliffhanger at the end of every episode? What’s episode 3? More information about the pumps teaser?
Well done all involved.
“ Get their evidence to be correct to begin with?”
You said this. New evidence comes out regularly. What crystal ball are you using please? Can you share the lottery numbers with me? I’ll cut you in.
WHO not keen on easing lockdowns with immunity passports on 19:07 - Apr 25 by NewcyBlue
“ Get their evidence to be correct to begin with?”
You said this. New evidence comes out regularly. What crystal ball are you using please? Can you share the lottery numbers with me? I’ll cut you in.
We didn’t even follow the evidence we had at the time though. That was the problem.
Even more evidently now we sit at 20k deaths.
You don’t need a crystal ball when large chunks of the independent science community, healthcare industry and the WHO are screaming “WHAT IN THE F*CK. ARE YOU DOING?!”
WHO not keen on easing lockdowns with immunity passports on 19:14 - Apr 25 by monytowbray
We didn’t even follow the evidence we had at the time though. That was the problem.
Even more evidently now we sit at 20k deaths.
You don’t need a crystal ball when large chunks of the independent science community, healthcare industry and the WHO are screaming “WHAT IN THE F*CK. ARE YOU DOING?!”
The WHO that were happy saying there had been no human to human transmissions of COVID in China when it was spreading very quickly?
One of the rules for avoiding collision at sea is “assumptions shall not be made on the basis of scanty information, especially scanty radar information”.
The best move would have been to enforce quarantine on those travelling from COVID infected countries from February. We could have then stopped large gatherings. Requested working from home. Found a way to keep pubs and restaurants in business, but responsibly. But that’s all with hindsight.
Trusting the WHO, who couldn’t evaluate what was actually happening at the very start, would have been a mistake.
New evidence comes around, we check, we respond. We need to keep a level head here. There’s more to it than deaths caused by COVID. I worry about the austerity to come and the deaths due to that. I worry what the future holds for Seb, and the twins when they are born.
One thing is for sure though, many people who have taken the NHS for granted are now standing at their front doors on a Thursday evening clapping their hands. Let’s hope their clapping turns into voting for a better future.
WHO not keen on easing lockdowns with immunity passports on 19:31 - Apr 25 by NewcyBlue
The WHO that were happy saying there had been no human to human transmissions of COVID in China when it was spreading very quickly?
One of the rules for avoiding collision at sea is “assumptions shall not be made on the basis of scanty information, especially scanty radar information”.
The best move would have been to enforce quarantine on those travelling from COVID infected countries from February. We could have then stopped large gatherings. Requested working from home. Found a way to keep pubs and restaurants in business, but responsibly. But that’s all with hindsight.
Trusting the WHO, who couldn’t evaluate what was actually happening at the very start, would have been a mistake.
New evidence comes around, we check, we respond. We need to keep a level head here. There’s more to it than deaths caused by COVID. I worry about the austerity to come and the deaths due to that. I worry what the future holds for Seb, and the twins when they are born.
One thing is for sure though, many people who have taken the NHS for granted are now standing at their front doors on a Thursday evening clapping their hands. Let’s hope their clapping turns into voting for a better future.
Sorry dude but you can't compare what the WHO knew based on suppressed Chinese intel in January with our actions of going with a reckless herd immunity approach in March. If continually moving data and science is the key (which it is).
I agree with the rest. I think there are many questions to ask of many nations and organisations after this is all done, but it doesn't excuse what we've done here either. We shouldn't even be factoring in the idea of 20k deaths being a good number, let alone going above it, but here we are.
On the last point, you'd hope so but then again Britain is a nation not far off Trump levels of cult hero worship now. O Brien hit the nail on the head with that one recently.
WHO not keen on easing lockdowns with immunity passports on 18:50 - Apr 25 by Pecker
Which is a good thing, isn't it?
Is this a game that anyone can play?
If i became the richest person in the world overnight and had 100,000 times the wealth of Bill Gates and i went on to fund scientists and organizations all around the world with some of those scientists then advising and setting in motion Governments and their policy towards the general public is that a good thing?
What if the organizations and scientists that i had funded came to the conclusion thus affecting Governments and their populations around the world that millions had already been infected and were now immune and there was no need for a mass vaccination. Would you accept that knowing that i had funded these organizations and scientists?
It's all about money, nothing else. Gates and his Health Organization and his scientists like Neil Ferguson from the Imperial College London with his 500,000 deaths estimation, Oxford University and also Chris Whitty.
"Whose a recovered person and whose a vaccinated person?"
"Now we don't want to have a lot of recovered people."
Oh i bet you don't Bill.
[Post edited 25 Apr 2020 20:00]
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WHO not keen on easing lockdowns with immunity passports on 19:53 - Apr 25 with 1254 views
WHO not keen on easing lockdowns with immunity passports on 19:43 - Apr 25 by monytowbray
Sorry dude but you can't compare what the WHO knew based on suppressed Chinese intel in January with our actions of going with a reckless herd immunity approach in March. If continually moving data and science is the key (which it is).
I agree with the rest. I think there are many questions to ask of many nations and organisations after this is all done, but it doesn't excuse what we've done here either. We shouldn't even be factoring in the idea of 20k deaths being a good number, let alone going above it, but here we are.
On the last point, you'd hope so but then again Britain is a nation not far off Trump levels of cult hero worship now. O Brien hit the nail on the head with that one recently.
“ Sorry dude but you can't compare what the WHO knew based on suppressed Chinese intel in January with our actions of going with a reckless herd immunity approach in March. If continually moving data and science is the key (which it is).”
I would say it’s evidence enough to want to check ourselves. The WHO trusted China who have continually suppressed information, and those trying to release it.
Other countries have their own demographics. I also don’t trust the government to make the right decision for my family either. I changed the way Seb, MrsN and I went about our lives. We stopped seeing friends and family fairly early on. I think the last large encounter of people that I had was around 3rd March at a Town match. A week or so later we were cancelling visits to family and friends. Probably helped by knowing that we had a lot to lose with the IVF etc. Even going to the IVF appointments we took precautions that seem normal now. We started it in February.
We shouldn’t be factoring in that over 20k deaths are happening, but they are. We need to find the best and quickest way to stop any escalation. We can then have an inquiry, learn from our mistakes. Question other nations, question the WHO. I think this is going to play in to the rabid Brexiteers view of the world being a dangerous place though. It’s going to be a huge sh!t sandwich, and we are all going to have to take a bite.
WHO not keen on easing lockdowns with immunity passports on 19:49 - Apr 25 by Bluesquid
Is this a game that anyone can play?
If i became the richest person in the world overnight and had 100,000 times the wealth of Bill Gates and i went on to fund scientists and organizations all around the world with some of those scientists then advising and setting in motion Governments and their policy towards the general public is that a good thing?
What if the organizations and scientists that i had funded came to the conclusion thus affecting Governments and their populations around the world that millions had already been infected and were now immune and there was no need for a mass vaccination. Would you accept that knowing that i had funded these organizations and scientists?
It's all about money, nothing else. Gates and his Health Organization and his scientists like Neil Ferguson from the Imperial College London with his 500,000 deaths estimation, Oxford University and also Chris Whitty.
"Whose a recovered person and whose a vaccinated person?"
"Now we don't want to have a lot of recovered people."
Oh i bet you don't Bill.
[Post edited 25 Apr 2020 20:00]
Gotta love how much we've brought into this idea philanthropy is brilliant.
So what you're saying is these people can avoid paying tax or act overly aggressive in business to make a personal fortune, keep it all to themselves so that cash isn't being passed around the globe helping others, decide to give a small fraction back to a charity or cause of your own choice that could be heavily influenced by your own agenda and then we all clap you for being so selfless and brilliant?
Or, you could have just, ya know, paid your taxes.
I love what charities do, but also charities shouldn't exist. They plug a hole where capitalism fails.
WHO not keen on easing lockdowns with immunity passports on 19:53 - Apr 25 by NewcyBlue
“ Sorry dude but you can't compare what the WHO knew based on suppressed Chinese intel in January with our actions of going with a reckless herd immunity approach in March. If continually moving data and science is the key (which it is).”
I would say it’s evidence enough to want to check ourselves. The WHO trusted China who have continually suppressed information, and those trying to release it.
Other countries have their own demographics. I also don’t trust the government to make the right decision for my family either. I changed the way Seb, MrsN and I went about our lives. We stopped seeing friends and family fairly early on. I think the last large encounter of people that I had was around 3rd March at a Town match. A week or so later we were cancelling visits to family and friends. Probably helped by knowing that we had a lot to lose with the IVF etc. Even going to the IVF appointments we took precautions that seem normal now. We started it in February.
We shouldn’t be factoring in that over 20k deaths are happening, but they are. We need to find the best and quickest way to stop any escalation. We can then have an inquiry, learn from our mistakes. Question other nations, question the WHO. I think this is going to play in to the rabid Brexiteers view of the world being a dangerous place though. It’s going to be a huge sh!t sandwich, and we are all going to have to take a bite.
China are an interesting one though. I can't imagine it's easy juggling a nation that is still quite secretive in terms of "taking what you can get" and "pushing for what you should have". Plus the WHO has not close to that level of authority. It's basically a big advisory board. Hence why it's quite weird watching Trump deflect not following their advice back onto them to escape blame. Maybe the level of authority the WHO has will change after.
I was on lockdown 2 weeks before the official line in the sand from Johnson, and 2 days before they came out with the HI gamble. I can relate that many out of London, where the seriousness of this hit locals much earlier (my main gig's office was already shut by that point with us all working remote) than it hit the rest of the nation (particularly the mostly quiet and rural land of East Anglia).
I agree on the last point, but many seem to support the idea the government shouldn't tell us what happened in those SAGE meetings. That worries me. If they have nothing to hide and are so confident in their approach it should be proven.
WHO not keen on easing lockdowns with immunity passports on 13:27 - Apr 25 by StokieBlue
When that was said that they didn't have the information published today. The problem with it then was that it would lead to too many deaths in the shorter term rather than herd immunity not being possible over the longer term so I don't think your post is entirely fair.
Most scientists have been saying that herd immunity would need to be part of the long term solution and this statement casts some doubt on that although more studies need to be done.
SB
I'm not sure that too many people in public health or epidemiology in other countries were really on board or talking about 'herd immunity' as a deliberate policy, aside from Sweden. There were various members of SAGE in the media in March 12-14 promoting the approach, though, giving the impression of scientific consensus, perhaps.
In the UK (in my opinion) there was an over-reliance on statistics and modelling which led to the false dichotomy between finding every single case and eradicating coronavirus, or allowing (basically) everyone to get it.
When so little was known about COVID, the overriding priority should have absolutely been to restrict transmission as much as possible to buy time.
In my opinion, again, for most of February and March the scientists / PHE / Gov were treating it as if it was a bad strain of influenza, whichcase their approach would have broadly been correct.
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WHO not keen on easing lockdowns with immunity passports on 22:04 - Apr 25 with 1196 views
WHO not keen on easing lockdowns with immunity passports on 18:08 - Apr 25 by Ely_Blue
A very sensible post, thanks for the very informative info, I hadn’t thought about it that way in that the virus could get to the stage where it literally has no new hosts to pass to.
I guess it depends on how virilant it is when it gets down to a handful infected and lockdown is lifted so to speak
They have indeed got thresholds they are looking to get below in order for stuff to start happening. Unfortunately, we're not heading far enough in that direction yet.
WHO not keen on easing lockdowns with immunity passports on 19:54 - Apr 25 by monytowbray
Gotta love how much we've brought into this idea philanthropy is brilliant.
So what you're saying is these people can avoid paying tax or act overly aggressive in business to make a personal fortune, keep it all to themselves so that cash isn't being passed around the globe helping others, decide to give a small fraction back to a charity or cause of your own choice that could be heavily influenced by your own agenda and then we all clap you for being so selfless and brilliant?
Or, you could have just, ya know, paid your taxes.
I love what charities do, but also charities shouldn't exist. They plug a hole where capitalism fails.
But why should they pay tax when the rest of the public don't want to, either - and keep electing governments which promise to cut them?
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