| Alistair Burt on 21:49 - Sep 4 with 1665 views | WicklowBlue |
From across the Irish Sea, naturally I agree with these sentiments. Our biggest fear is that we will be thrown under the proverbial bus by the EU in a damage limitation exercise.
While I'm avidly following events in Parliament I have deliberately avoided posting on Brexit as not my place to comment on UK matters.
However our Government and Media are constantly reporting (as are the EU) that no proposals have been put forward to solve the backstop issue. Ireland would take an orderly Brexit any day to help ease trade restrictions our main trade partner.
Ultimately the ROI will not accept a return to having any sort of border with our friends in NI. |  | |  |
| Alistair Burt on 22:02 - Sep 4 with 1637 views | Moriarty |
| Alistair Burt on 21:49 - Sep 4 by WicklowBlue |
From across the Irish Sea, naturally I agree with these sentiments. Our biggest fear is that we will be thrown under the proverbial bus by the EU in a damage limitation exercise.
While I'm avidly following events in Parliament I have deliberately avoided posting on Brexit as not my place to comment on UK matters.
However our Government and Media are constantly reporting (as are the EU) that no proposals have been put forward to solve the backstop issue. Ireland would take an orderly Brexit any day to help ease trade restrictions our main trade partner.
Ultimately the ROI will not accept a return to having any sort of border with our friends in NI. |
Brexit affects the island of Ireland in a profound way. The EU won’t throw us under a bus. We also have a block of support in US Congress. See Nancy Pelosi. We can contribute to the debate. In fact we need to in order to counter the gross stupidity of idiots such as Priti Patel.
Alistair’s comments are a breath of fresh air. |  |
| |
| Alistair Burt on 04:18 - Sep 5 with 1556 views | WeWereZombies |
| Alistair Burt on 22:02 - Sep 4 by Moriarty |
Brexit affects the island of Ireland in a profound way. The EU won’t throw us under a bus. We also have a block of support in US Congress. See Nancy Pelosi. We can contribute to the debate. In fact we need to in order to counter the gross stupidity of idiots such as Priti Patel.
Alistair’s comments are a breath of fresh air. |
I had been reading earlier in the week about the European Union preparing a disaster emergency fund for nations badly affected in the event of a no deal Brexit and assumed it was for the less well off Eastern European countries whose trading revenues would fall or who would have to cope with an influx of returning nationals without enough employment opportunities. I had not appreciated the damage that could be caused to the Republic by the removal of the backstop:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-49587610 |  |
| |
| Alistair Burt on 04:30 - Sep 5 with 1551 views | yorkshire |
These are the serious consequences that the leavers are just missing. None of this larger hand towels, dirtier air, crushing grape bollox - the Irish issue is a very serious one and I just wish this had been explained to people who made their leave choice without all the facts |  | | |
| Alistair Burt on 08:48 - Sep 5 with 1454 views | Moriarty |
| Alistair Burt on 04:18 - Sep 5 by WeWereZombies |
I had been reading earlier in the week about the European Union preparing a disaster emergency fund for nations badly affected in the event of a no deal Brexit and assumed it was for the less well off Eastern European countries whose trading revenues would fall or who would have to cope with an influx of returning nationals without enough employment opportunities. I had not appreciated the damage that could be caused to the Republic by the removal of the backstop:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-49587610 |
No deal Brexit would probably cost 10,000 jobs in Ireland. EU funding would allow us to carry out the necessary repairs and adjustments over time. Would imagine it would also cost the UK a lot of goodwill, not just in Ireland, especially given the context of comments by the idiot Patel and others. I’ve also heard that Mogg, despite his guff, has moved his funds to Ireland. Trouble in the North would also be inevitable.
The Republic recovered well from the bust however, and would recover from Brexit as well.
If there is an election in the UK, then the Unionists (whose currency is hate and division) might feel more exposed if they no longer hold the balance of power. A United Ireland solves the backstop after all and they’ve been costing the U.K. a mint for many, many years. Even in that unlikely scenario however, we’d still need funding from E.U. as the North is, in economic terms, a subsidized toxic loan. | |
| |
| Alistair Burt on 08:51 - Sep 5 with 1451 views | Moriarty |
| Alistair Burt on 04:30 - Sep 5 by yorkshire |
These are the serious consequences that the leavers are just missing. None of this larger hand towels, dirtier air, crushing grape bollox - the Irish issue is a very serious one and I just wish this had been explained to people who made their leave choice without all the facts |
Indeed. It was quite damning that so many politicians outside of Ireland conceded they never really considered how Brexit would affect the North and the Border until recently. | |
| |
| Alistair Burt on 10:31 - Sep 5 with 1389 views | connorscontract |
| Alistair Burt on 21:49 - Sep 4 by WicklowBlue |
From across the Irish Sea, naturally I agree with these sentiments. Our biggest fear is that we will be thrown under the proverbial bus by the EU in a damage limitation exercise.
While I'm avidly following events in Parliament I have deliberately avoided posting on Brexit as not my place to comment on UK matters.
However our Government and Media are constantly reporting (as are the EU) that no proposals have been put forward to solve the backstop issue. Ireland would take an orderly Brexit any day to help ease trade restrictions our main trade partner.
Ultimately the ROI will not accept a return to having any sort of border with our friends in NI. |
As a British resident, British national, I'd welcome your comments giving an Irish perspective on Brexit, or links to Irish media stories which might be of interest. The British media is heavily filtered and we don't get to hear the perspective of our European neighbours very often.
No hard border on TWTD comments! | | | |
| Alistair Burt on 11:12 - Sep 5 with 1368 views | connorscontract |
| Alistair Burt on 08:48 - Sep 5 by Moriarty |
No deal Brexit would probably cost 10,000 jobs in Ireland. EU funding would allow us to carry out the necessary repairs and adjustments over time. Would imagine it would also cost the UK a lot of goodwill, not just in Ireland, especially given the context of comments by the idiot Patel and others. I’ve also heard that Mogg, despite his guff, has moved his funds to Ireland. Trouble in the North would also be inevitable.
The Republic recovered well from the bust however, and would recover from Brexit as well.
If there is an election in the UK, then the Unionists (whose currency is hate and division) might feel more exposed if they no longer hold the balance of power. A United Ireland solves the backstop after all and they’ve been costing the U.K. a mint for many, many years. Even in that unlikely scenario however, we’d still need funding from E.U. as the North is, in economic terms, a subsidized toxic loan. |
There is absolutely no possibility of a peaceful transition to an United Ireland in the foreseeable future, so the "cost" would be in lives and destruction wrought by something between a prolonged terrorist campaign and an insurgency. | | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| Alistair Burt on 11:20 - Sep 5 with 1342 views | connorscontract |
| Alistair Burt on 11:12 - Sep 5 by connorscontract |
There is absolutely no possibility of a peaceful transition to an United Ireland in the foreseeable future, so the "cost" would be in lives and destruction wrought by something between a prolonged terrorist campaign and an insurgency. |
Where we are now with the relationship between The Good Friday Agreement and Brexit mansplained for those who may not be up to speed on it:
The Good Friday Agreement (and follow up legislation) did the impossible: it allowed NI Republicans to claim Irish passports and travel throughout the island of Ireland without checkpoints, whilst allowing NI Loyalists to continue to be British and travel to the island of Great Britain on domestic routes. I've called this "NI is Irish to those who see it as Irish and British to those who see it as British" as a quantum solution: NI, to all extents and purposes exists as a both/and. It is literally a Dual-State (pun intended).
Add in the further planks of the GFA: a power-sharing Executive (Government of key departments in NI by ministers from both communities on an agreed formula), devolution of some legislative powers to Stormont (the Northern Ireland Assembly, akin to the Scottish Parliament) reform of the Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC) (which had been linked to atrocities carried out by Loyalist groups) to the Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI), decommissioning of paramilitary weapons on both sides, and dismantling of security installations throughout NI, and you have an incredibly clever solution.
Then we have the fact that this solution was created by the British and Irish Governments with hard work and assistance from the EU, the USA and Canada. Any breach of the GFA is therefore a breach of trust with these key partners. This can't be understated in a post-Brexit world where our pitch will be "make deals with us, we're Britain! We can be trusted!" (Especially if a No Deal Brexit means we leave without paying our committed obligations to the EU: another breach of trust).
Brexit threatens some of these core planks of the GFA, at a time when others are also under threat or have collapsed. It is impossible to have a land border with the European Union without some form of security installation or checkpoints. The logical solution to this is for NI to remain in the EEC and maintain Freedom of Movement, but this would then breach the Loyalist "dual-state" vision of being fully British: the "border in the Irish Sea" problem.
For those who aren't aware: the other planks of the GFA are also in disarray, so this is happening at the worst possible time.
The Power-Sharing Executive has collapsed, and the Stormont Parliament is suspended, because of the refusal of Arlene Foster to take proper ministerial accountability for a disastrous renewable energy scheme which she had responsibility for. That Loyalist voters have continued to vote her in as their MP subsequently demonstrates a determination to "stick it to Sinn Fein" rather than demand proper conduct from Ministers in a Power-Sharing Executive, and shows how tentative the peace process and quantum solution is.
The Police Service of Northern Ireland was formed to be representative of both communities, and with oversight from both communities, and to move on from the structures of the Royal Ulster Constabulary, an organisation dominated by Protestants and an arm of the British Home Office. The collapse of the Power-Sharing Executive means that oversight of the PSNI reverts back to the Northern Ireland Secretary and Home Secretary.
For months after Brexit I had been saying these things and warning that we were in danger of reigniting NI terrorism, and undermining the last plank of the GFA which is still intact. Then, in the week of a critical vote on the May Deal, it happened, the Continuity IRA sent devices to key mainland British institutions.
There can be no mistake that this was a warning and a clear response to the off-hand, dismissive way that the likes of Johnson and Rees-Mogg had treated the issue. This has now escalated as Johnson's No Deal plan has come to the vote:
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/continuity-ira-man-admi
THE CONTINUITY IRA HAS STATED THAT IT IS NOW ACTIVELY TRYING TO KILL PSNI OFFICERS!!!!!
(Anyone else come across this story in the mainland British media?)
We are in very dangerous times. | | | |
| Alistair Burt on 10:47 - Sep 6 with 1216 views | WeWereZombies |
| Alistair Burt on 11:20 - Sep 5 by connorscontract |
Where we are now with the relationship between The Good Friday Agreement and Brexit mansplained for those who may not be up to speed on it:
The Good Friday Agreement (and follow up legislation) did the impossible: it allowed NI Republicans to claim Irish passports and travel throughout the island of Ireland without checkpoints, whilst allowing NI Loyalists to continue to be British and travel to the island of Great Britain on domestic routes. I've called this "NI is Irish to those who see it as Irish and British to those who see it as British" as a quantum solution: NI, to all extents and purposes exists as a both/and. It is literally a Dual-State (pun intended).
Add in the further planks of the GFA: a power-sharing Executive (Government of key departments in NI by ministers from both communities on an agreed formula), devolution of some legislative powers to Stormont (the Northern Ireland Assembly, akin to the Scottish Parliament) reform of the Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC) (which had been linked to atrocities carried out by Loyalist groups) to the Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI), decommissioning of paramilitary weapons on both sides, and dismantling of security installations throughout NI, and you have an incredibly clever solution.
Then we have the fact that this solution was created by the British and Irish Governments with hard work and assistance from the EU, the USA and Canada. Any breach of the GFA is therefore a breach of trust with these key partners. This can't be understated in a post-Brexit world where our pitch will be "make deals with us, we're Britain! We can be trusted!" (Especially if a No Deal Brexit means we leave without paying our committed obligations to the EU: another breach of trust).
Brexit threatens some of these core planks of the GFA, at a time when others are also under threat or have collapsed. It is impossible to have a land border with the European Union without some form of security installation or checkpoints. The logical solution to this is for NI to remain in the EEC and maintain Freedom of Movement, but this would then breach the Loyalist "dual-state" vision of being fully British: the "border in the Irish Sea" problem.
For those who aren't aware: the other planks of the GFA are also in disarray, so this is happening at the worst possible time.
The Power-Sharing Executive has collapsed, and the Stormont Parliament is suspended, because of the refusal of Arlene Foster to take proper ministerial accountability for a disastrous renewable energy scheme which she had responsibility for. That Loyalist voters have continued to vote her in as their MP subsequently demonstrates a determination to "stick it to Sinn Fein" rather than demand proper conduct from Ministers in a Power-Sharing Executive, and shows how tentative the peace process and quantum solution is.
The Police Service of Northern Ireland was formed to be representative of both communities, and with oversight from both communities, and to move on from the structures of the Royal Ulster Constabulary, an organisation dominated by Protestants and an arm of the British Home Office. The collapse of the Power-Sharing Executive means that oversight of the PSNI reverts back to the Northern Ireland Secretary and Home Secretary.
For months after Brexit I had been saying these things and warning that we were in danger of reigniting NI terrorism, and undermining the last plank of the GFA which is still intact. Then, in the week of a critical vote on the May Deal, it happened, the Continuity IRA sent devices to key mainland British institutions.
There can be no mistake that this was a warning and a clear response to the off-hand, dismissive way that the likes of Johnson and Rees-Mogg had treated the issue. This has now escalated as Johnson's No Deal plan has come to the vote:
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/continuity-ira-man-admi
THE CONTINUITY IRA HAS STATED THAT IT IS NOW ACTIVELY TRYING TO KILL PSNI OFFICERS!!!!!
(Anyone else come across this story in the mainland British media?)
We are in very dangerous times. |
Only just had the chance to catch up with this thread and read this very sobering post, if only every poster on TWTD went into as much research and gave as much thought to issues. | |
| |
| Alistair Burt on 10:54 - Sep 6 with 1198 views | m14_blue |
| Alistair Burt on 10:47 - Sep 6 by WeWereZombies |
Only just had the chance to catch up with this thread and read this very sobering post, if only every poster on TWTD went into as much research and gave as much thought to issues. |
Never mind posters on here, Government Ministers could learn a thing or two. | | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
