| Been a while since I’ve lobbed a vegan hot take in here 20:38 - Nov 15 with 12411 views | monytowbray |
GO ONNN. |  |
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| That's a bit of a leap Herbs..... on 14:07 - Nov 17 with 681 views | Herbivore |
| That's a bit of a leap Herbs..... on 14:06 - Nov 17 by Bloots |
....and not one that I think is totally relevant.
Lets not make this a massive "pile on". |
Disagree. |  |
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| Fair enough..... on 14:09 - Nov 17 with 679 views | Bloots |
| That's a bit of a leap Herbs..... on 14:07 - Nov 17 by Herbivore |
Disagree. |
....that's your choice.
I don't agree with you. |  |
| "He's been a really positive influence on my life, I think he's a great man" - TWTD User (May 2025) |
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| That's a bit of a leap Herbs..... on 14:09 - Nov 17 with 678 views | Darth_Koont |
| That's a bit of a leap Herbs..... on 14:06 - Nov 17 by Bloots |
....and not one that I think is totally relevant.
Lets not make this a massive "pile on". |
Why is it a leap?
“Socially acceptable” isn’t an answer, it’s just a current factor in the discussion. As these examples clearly prove. |  |
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| Been a while since I’ve lobbed a vegan hot take in here on 14:09 - Nov 17 with 674 views | eireblue |
| Been a while since I’ve lobbed a vegan hot take in here on 13:54 - Nov 17 by The_Romford_Blue |
It is socially acceptable. And 98% of people do it.
In fairness you’re not actually someone I’d consider a ‘preachy’ vegan anymore anyway. I came into this thread for an interesting discussion. Plenty of good points have been made and I’ve even learnt a couple of things.
Eireblue wants an echo chamber though so I shall leave you to it. |
Telling a vegan that is married to a non-vegan, that lives in a non-vegan world, that they want an echo chamber, is a little bit silly. |  | | |
| Been a while since I’ve lobbed a vegan hot take in here on 14:14 - Nov 17 with 663 views | Swailsey |
| Been a while since I’ve lobbed a vegan hot take in here on 10:06 - Nov 17 by eireblue |
Interesting.
That being the case, I have met a lot of pushy meat eaters, and no pushy vegans. |
This. |  |
| Who said: "Colin Healy made Cesc Fabregas look like Colin Healy"? | We miss you TLA |
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| Fair enough..... on 14:15 - Nov 17 with 660 views | Herbivore |
| Fair enough..... on 14:09 - Nov 17 by Bloots |
....that's your choice.
I don't agree with you. |
I respect your right to not agree with me. | |
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| Been a while since I’ve lobbed a vegan hot take in here on 14:19 - Nov 17 with 646 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| Been a while since I’ve lobbed a vegan hot take in here on 14:05 - Nov 17 by eireblue |
No, I am not here for an argument.
It is like the smoking analogy I made as well.
It is reframing the discussion to try and abstract what is really at issue, and try and engage in a debate.
Women that wanted the vote were castigated as being “pushy” and worse.
It is easy to label someone as pushy.
Let’s try this, should you lie about you gambling on horses and why you do it? |
Go on I’ll bite.. though I have a lesson in 45 minutes so won’t be continuing after 2:45.
That’s the second gambling related point you’ve made. I don’t understand what you’re trying to say. If I was a ‘pushy’ gambler, I’d be telling everyone to gamble. You’ll find exactly 0 posts from me telling anyone to bet. Also.. what do you mean by ‘lie’ about gambling? I’ve never lied about betting on my life. I’m as straight up as they come on all subjects.. which can often be used against me, and has been on here plenty of times. |  |
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| That's a bit of a leap Herbs..... on 14:19 - Nov 17 with 647 views | DanTheMan |
| That's a bit of a leap Herbs..... on 14:06 - Nov 17 by Bloots |
....and not one that I think is totally relevant.
Lets not make this a massive "pile on". |
He isn't wrong though, even though the examples are extreme things that people see as abhorrent now used to be socially acceptable. Even something less extreme such as drink driving now was OK not so long ago.
Agree on the pile on, but I think the thread is OK at the moment. Heckles aren't raised fully yet! |  |
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| We've agreed to disagree..... on 14:21 - Nov 17 with 634 views | Bloots |
| That's a bit of a leap Herbs..... on 14:19 - Nov 17 by DanTheMan |
He isn't wrong though, even though the examples are extreme things that people see as abhorrent now used to be socially acceptable. Even something less extreme such as drink driving now was OK not so long ago.
Agree on the pile on, but I think the thread is OK at the moment. Heckles aren't raised fully yet! |
....we agree on that. | |
| "He's been a really positive influence on my life, I think he's a great man" - TWTD User (May 2025) |
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| Been a while since I’ve lobbed a vegan hot take in here on 14:23 - Nov 17 with 633 views | woiii |
I've never been a fan of eating the meat of mammals, especially animals created by man which aren't a natural part of the food chain. Birds and fish are a different matter though and don't have mammalian characteristics or emotions. They are part of the food chain and exist to be eaten. Which reminds me that I'm going to have a lovely bit of smoked haddock tonight... baked in tin foil with a bit of butter :-) |  | | |
| That's a bit of a leap Herbs..... on 14:25 - Nov 17 with 624 views | Herbivore |
| That's a bit of a leap Herbs..... on 14:19 - Nov 17 by DanTheMan |
He isn't wrong though, even though the examples are extreme things that people see as abhorrent now used to be socially acceptable. Even something less extreme such as drink driving now was OK not so long ago.
Agree on the pile on, but I think the thread is OK at the moment. Heckles aren't raised fully yet! |
Even using milder examples that are directly related to animal welfare, the point stands. When I was a kid nobody really cared about where their eggs came from (as long as it was a hen generally) and battery eggs were the norm. Now, you have to go looking for the eggs from caged hens in the supermarket. Things like fox hunting and wearing fur were seen as fairly socially acceptable going back 30 years but attitudes towards them have changed too. I used the extreme examples mainly to highlight that it's a poor argument to claim that something is okay if it's viewed as socially acceptable by the majority. | |
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| Been a while since I’ve lobbed a vegan hot take in here on 14:25 - Nov 17 with 626 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Been a while since I’ve lobbed a vegan hot take in here on 14:00 - Nov 17 by Herbivore |
Sure, but it used to be socially acceptable to own slaves too. It used to be socially acceptable to refuse service to Black people in pubs. It used to be socially acceptable to mock gay people. What the majority deems to be socially acceptable currently isn't a great argument in support of something. Generally we see changes in social attitudes starting with a minority and then increasingly more people come over to that viewpoint until it becomes the new consensus. It'll be interesting to see for how many more years "meat tastes good" is seen as a valid argument against animal cruelty and environmental destruction. To me it already looks a piss weak argument to be honest. |
To me, the strongest argument for eating meat is that our teeth are designed* for tearing flesh. Nothing about us is designed for owning slaves, discriminating against black people/gays etc.
I say that as a Flexitarian (I don't eat any meat during the week). I choose to do this to diminishing the suffering of animals, even though I appreciate I am designed to eat them.
*For avoidance of doubt, I don't mean 'designed' literally, as in by a god. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| From a "how to get your point across"..... on 14:27 - Nov 17 with 622 views | Bloots |
| That's a bit of a leap Herbs..... on 14:25 - Nov 17 by Herbivore |
Even using milder examples that are directly related to animal welfare, the point stands. When I was a kid nobody really cared about where their eggs came from (as long as it was a hen generally) and battery eggs were the norm. Now, you have to go looking for the eggs from caged hens in the supermarket. Things like fox hunting and wearing fur were seen as fairly socially acceptable going back 30 years but attitudes towards them have changed too. I used the extreme examples mainly to highlight that it's a poor argument to claim that something is okay if it's viewed as socially acceptable by the majority. |
....perspective, that's a far better and relatable way of saying it.
And I agree with you. | |
| "He's been a really positive influence on my life, I think he's a great man" - TWTD User (May 2025) |
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| The missus and I eat far less meat..... on 14:35 - Nov 17 with 603 views | Bloots |
| Been a while since I’ve lobbed a vegan hot take in here on 14:25 - Nov 17 by The_Flashing_Smile |
To me, the strongest argument for eating meat is that our teeth are designed* for tearing flesh. Nothing about us is designed for owning slaves, discriminating against black people/gays etc.
I say that as a Flexitarian (I don't eat any meat during the week). I choose to do this to diminishing the suffering of animals, even though I appreciate I am designed to eat them.
*For avoidance of doubt, I don't mean 'designed' literally, as in by a god. |
....than we used to.
Mass produced "supermarket" meat is fairly repulsive from both an ethical and taste perspective.
Meat tends to be a "treat" (that'll upset a few) that I get from ridiculously overpriced local butchers where I have a vague idea of where it came from.
Although I did buy some grotty chicken breasts for the pup yesterday, she doesn't care, the bitch. | |
| "He's been a really positive influence on my life, I think he's a great man" - TWTD User (May 2025) |
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| Been a while since I’ve lobbed a vegan hot take in here on 14:41 - Nov 17 with 591 views | NewcyBlue |
| Been a while since I’ve lobbed a vegan hot take in here on 14:14 - Nov 17 by Swailsey |
This. |
You told me to put my sausage in your mouth! |  |
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| Been a while since I’ve lobbed a vegan hot take in here on 14:43 - Nov 17 with 585 views | eireblue |
| Been a while since I’ve lobbed a vegan hot take in here on 14:19 - Nov 17 by The_Romford_Blue |
Go on I’ll bite.. though I have a lesson in 45 minutes so won’t be continuing after 2:45.
That’s the second gambling related point you’ve made. I don’t understand what you’re trying to say. If I was a ‘pushy’ gambler, I’d be telling everyone to gamble. You’ll find exactly 0 posts from me telling anyone to bet. Also.. what do you mean by ‘lie’ about gambling? I’ve never lied about betting on my life. I’m as straight up as they come on all subjects.. which can often be used against me, and has been on here plenty of times. |
I don’t tell everyone to be a vegan.
I don’t even start conversations on being a vegan.
I do get involved and explain my perspective of being a vegan
I would lie about my reasons for being a vegan, when asked. I probably still do and sometimes tone it down a bit.
Pre lockdown, and even post lockdown, people manage to say things like, maybe if you got a steak down you....etc.
You are allowed to be straight up about gambling, you are allowed to promote tips, even though gambling addiction is a problem. People will not constantly make jokes about your gambling, and associate you with the negative side of gambling, i.e. being an addict.
You will never get called or categorised as preachy or pushy.
I am not a pushy vegan.
But guess what happens if actually tell people why I am a vegan, or that the joke is wearing about thin. Or even, actually just push back a bit.
That is what the OP is expressing.
Maybe people are actually very quick to label vegans pushy, not because they are. | | | |
| Been a while since I’ve lobbed a vegan hot take in here on 15:11 - Nov 17 with 558 views | monytowbray |
| Been a while since I’ve lobbed a vegan hot take in here on 13:54 - Nov 17 by The_Romford_Blue |
It is socially acceptable. And 98% of people do it.
In fairness you’re not actually someone I’d consider a ‘preachy’ vegan anymore anyway. I came into this thread for an interesting discussion. Plenty of good points have been made and I’ve even learnt a couple of things.
Eireblue wants an echo chamber though so I shall leave you to it. |
The points haven't changed from 4 years ago when a TWTD pro-vegan post would result in 20 pages of abuse though, nor has how those points are made.
The difference is people finally accepting the points rather than getting defensive. You could have learned all of this years ago if you were more receptive.
As I said a few pages ago, let's not reinvent TWTD history to make people feel better. It's great to see such progress in the way people think but part of that process is accepting past behaviour was wrong.
Eire has done it. I've done it. Herbs has done it. It's the same with most issues. For example, by accepting institutional racism is a problem you also have to admit you yourself have probably been guilty of it in the past. And that's why the "war on woke" or whatever the regressive media call it is fictional b0llocks based on projection. [Post edited 17 Nov 2020 15:28]
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| That's a bit of a leap Herbs..... on 15:12 - Nov 17 with 553 views | monytowbray |
| That's a bit of a leap Herbs..... on 14:19 - Nov 17 by DanTheMan |
He isn't wrong though, even though the examples are extreme things that people see as abhorrent now used to be socially acceptable. Even something less extreme such as drink driving now was OK not so long ago.
Agree on the pile on, but I think the thread is OK at the moment. Heckles aren't raised fully yet! |
Shut up you d1ck! | |
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| Been a while since I’ve lobbed a vegan hot take in here on 15:13 - Nov 17 with 550 views | monytowbray |
| Been a while since I’ve lobbed a vegan hot take in here on 14:23 - Nov 17 by woiii |
I've never been a fan of eating the meat of mammals, especially animals created by man which aren't a natural part of the food chain. Birds and fish are a different matter though and don't have mammalian characteristics or emotions. They are part of the food chain and exist to be eaten. Which reminds me that I'm going to have a lovely bit of smoked haddock tonight... baked in tin foil with a bit of butter :-) |
"Birds and fish are a different matter though and don't have mammalian characteristics or emotion."
What on earth is that opinion based on? | |
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| Been a while since I’ve lobbed a vegan hot take in here on 15:16 - Nov 17 with 546 views | NewcyBlue |
| Been a while since I’ve lobbed a vegan hot take in here on 14:43 - Nov 17 by eireblue |
I don’t tell everyone to be a vegan.
I don’t even start conversations on being a vegan.
I do get involved and explain my perspective of being a vegan
I would lie about my reasons for being a vegan, when asked. I probably still do and sometimes tone it down a bit.
Pre lockdown, and even post lockdown, people manage to say things like, maybe if you got a steak down you....etc.
You are allowed to be straight up about gambling, you are allowed to promote tips, even though gambling addiction is a problem. People will not constantly make jokes about your gambling, and associate you with the negative side of gambling, i.e. being an addict.
You will never get called or categorised as preachy or pushy.
I am not a pushy vegan.
But guess what happens if actually tell people why I am a vegan, or that the joke is wearing about thin. Or even, actually just push back a bit.
That is what the OP is expressing.
Maybe people are actually very quick to label vegans pushy, not because they are. |
I’ve just bought MrsN some Oat Milk. Think I saw Herbivore being pushy about it.
We are currently considering going vegan, just awaiting information from specialists at the hospital. It will take 6 weeks for breast milk to be free of cows milk proteins / lactose.
MrsN wants to breastfeed more than she wants to eat dead animals. | |
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| Been a while since I’ve lobbed a vegan hot take in here on 15:23 - Nov 17 with 542 views | monytowbray |
| Been a while since I’ve lobbed a vegan hot take in here on 14:25 - Nov 17 by The_Flashing_Smile |
To me, the strongest argument for eating meat is that our teeth are designed* for tearing flesh. Nothing about us is designed for owning slaves, discriminating against black people/gays etc.
I say that as a Flexitarian (I don't eat any meat during the week). I choose to do this to diminishing the suffering of animals, even though I appreciate I am designed to eat them.
*For avoidance of doubt, I don't mean 'designed' literally, as in by a god. |
Are they designed to tear flesh though? Or has the fact evolution allowed us to use tools to cook and adapt allowed us to do so?
I have thumbs so I can hold a knife, doesn't mean humans are built for the purpose of stabbing each other. | |
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| Been a while since I’ve lobbed a vegan hot take in here on 15:24 - Nov 17 with 539 views | eireblue |
| Been a while since I’ve lobbed a vegan hot take in here on 15:13 - Nov 17 by monytowbray |
"Birds and fish are a different matter though and don't have mammalian characteristics or emotion."
What on earth is that opinion based on? |
Hmmmm, it won’t be this
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/09/newfound-brain-structure-explains-why-so
A quote from somewhere else,
“Birds appear to offer, in their behaviour, neurophysiology, and neuroanatomy a striking case of parallel evolution of consciousness. Evidence of near human-like levels of consciousness has been most dramatically observed in African grey parrots. Mammalian and avian emotional networks and cognitive microcircuitries appear to be far more homologous than previously thought“ | | | |
| Been a while since I’ve lobbed a vegan hot take in here on 15:27 - Nov 17 with 532 views | monytowbray |
| Been a while since I’ve lobbed a vegan hot take in here on 15:24 - Nov 17 by eireblue |
Hmmmm, it won’t be this
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/09/newfound-brain-structure-explains-why-so
A quote from somewhere else,
“Birds appear to offer, in their behaviour, neurophysiology, and neuroanatomy a striking case of parallel evolution of consciousness. Evidence of near human-like levels of consciousness has been most dramatically observed in African grey parrots. Mammalian and avian emotional networks and cognitive microcircuitries appear to be far more homologous than previously thought“ |
My mate has some rescue hens that were off to slaughter after their egg laying dried up.
A) Some have lived for years after being adopted despite living in awful conditions that have shortened their life span.
B) They all have unique personalities, quirks and habits the same as a dog or cat would. Certainly more personality than a hamster or a gerbil, yet if someone in the UK said they eat either they'd end up on the RSPCA's books.
The cognitive dissonance in animal welfare from years of farming industry propaganda is hard to shake for many sadly. | |
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| Been a while since I’ve lobbed a vegan hot take in here on 15:37 - Nov 17 with 526 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Been a while since I’ve lobbed a vegan hot take in here on 15:23 - Nov 17 by monytowbray |
Are they designed to tear flesh though? Or has the fact evolution allowed us to use tools to cook and adapt allowed us to do so?
I have thumbs so I can hold a knife, doesn't mean humans are built for the purpose of stabbing each other. |
I saw it as told by scientists, but it was years ago so I couldn't tell you where.
Your analogy is a bit silly Callis. Clearly having opposable thumbs is for carrying things and using tools, not necessarily knives for stabbing each other.
Teeth designed for tearing flesh are designed for tearing flesh, nothing else. Lions, tigers, dogs etc don't think about it, they just get on with it. The difference is we can choose something else. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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