| These 21 rebels... 07:38 - Sep 4 with 2564 views | GavTWTD |
What happens to them now? And their constituencies? |  |
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| These 21 rebels... on 07:41 - Sep 4 with 1904 views | BloomBlue |
Like all MPs will be getting a 3 week jolly as part of the conference season, the only difference is they wont get free food and drink. |  | | |
| These 21 rebels... on 07:50 - Sep 4 with 1854 views | BlueBoots |
If BJ does what he threatened, we'll now have 21 new Independent MPs sitting in Parliament. So they won't be able to stand for re-election as the Tory party candidate in the next General Election... [Post edited 4 Sep 2019 8:01]
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| These 21 rebels... on 07:50 - Sep 4 with 1851 views | factual_blue |
They get lauded to the skies.
Apart from that, they remain MPs. |  |
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| These 21 rebels... on 07:58 - Sep 4 with 1804 views | DanTheMan |
| These 21 rebels... on 07:50 - Sep 4 by BlueBoots |
If BJ does what he threatened, we'll now have 21 new Independent MPs sitting in Parliament. So they won't be able to stand for re-election as the Tory party candidate in the next General Election... [Post edited 4 Sep 2019 8:01]
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I think Hammond said he would fight that legally if they tried to kick him out of the party. |  |
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| These 21 rebels... on 09:00 - Sep 4 with 1654 views | BrianTablet |
They get loaned out to Championship constituencies, like Bracknell. |  |
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| These 21 rebels... on 09:01 - Sep 4 with 1650 views | bournemouthblue |
| These 21 rebels... on 07:50 - Sep 4 by BlueBoots |
If BJ does what he threatened, we'll now have 21 new Independent MPs sitting in Parliament. So they won't be able to stand for re-election as the Tory party candidate in the next General Election... [Post edited 4 Sep 2019 8:01]
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It's essentially deselection I guess which the Corbyn crew had been threatening with Blairite vocalists and were panned for it [Post edited 4 Sep 2019 9:17]
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| These 21 rebels... on 09:05 - Sep 4 with 1632 views | WeWereZombies |
They all join The Brexit Party - that lot will have anyone... |  |
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| These 21 rebels... on 09:05 - Sep 4 with 1626 views | eireblue |
It’s a bit like if you and Phil had a fall out.
You would still be working on a TWTD update, but you could “replace SD Drives” more frequently, and of course, separate biscuit tins for Hob Nobs would be required. |  | | |
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| These 21 rebels... on 09:06 - Sep 4 with 1629 views | BlueRaider |
| These 21 rebels... on 07:58 - Sep 4 by DanTheMan |
I think Hammond said he would fight that legally if they tried to kick him out of the party. |
According to the radio if the tory whip has been withdrawn then they cannot be tory candidates and have no legal position to fight it as the consequence was made clear before the vote. What Hammond and others may do is to stand as independents at a forthcoming election. |  |
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| These 21 rebels... on 09:06 - Sep 4 with 1629 views | Guthrum |
They lose some privileges such as admin help and office space. They become part of the opposition rather than the Government. They no longer have the support of a local constituency party apparatus, altho that will depend upon the attitude of their particular association and its members.
The constituency still has an MP, is represented in Parliament, so there is no necessity for a by-election. The partyless MPs could trigger one voluntarily, but there would be little point with a seemingly imminent General Election. It would also be unusual following the deprivation of the whip rather than an active defection to another party.
As a group, they could band themselves together under a banner such as the "Independent Conservative Party" (as happened with the Labour split of 1932 and the Liberal Unionists of the 1880s and '90s). They might even, as such, carry their local associations with them.
Or they could join another party en masse, tho that is less likely, especially as they are still Conservatives by inclination and many of them moderate Brexiteers. |  |
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| These 21 rebels... on 09:06 - Sep 4 with 1626 views | BackToRussia |
| These 21 rebels... on 09:01 - Sep 4 by bournemouthblue |
It's essentially deselection I guess which the Corbyn crew had been threatening with Blairite vocalists and were panned for it [Post edited 4 Sep 2019 9:17]
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Surely this makes Boris a totalitarian Marxist? It's all very confusing for me. |  |
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| These 21 rebels... on 09:08 - Sep 4 with 1626 views | artsbossbeard |
Their constituents should greet them with a pat on their collective backs safe in the knowledge that their stance against party dictatorship should be admired and yarns should told to children at bedtime as a perfect example of sticking to principles.
A mural to the 21 should be painted on a public toilet wall (outside facing) in Biggleswade.
Things you won't be forced out of Tory party for doing:
• Lying to Parliament
• Breaching ministerial codes
• Gross incompetence
• Racist language
• Grabbing a peaceful protestor by the neck
• Voting against the government six months ago
Things that will force you out:
• Voting against the government now, because you are worried about the lives and livelihoods of your constituents [Post edited 4 Sep 2019 9:13]
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| Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing. | | Poll: | Raining in IP8 - shall I get the washing in? |
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| These 21 rebels... on 09:24 - Sep 4 with 1541 views | NthQldITFC |
| These 21 rebels... on 09:06 - Sep 4 by Guthrum |
They lose some privileges such as admin help and office space. They become part of the opposition rather than the Government. They no longer have the support of a local constituency party apparatus, altho that will depend upon the attitude of their particular association and its members.
The constituency still has an MP, is represented in Parliament, so there is no necessity for a by-election. The partyless MPs could trigger one voluntarily, but there would be little point with a seemingly imminent General Election. It would also be unusual following the deprivation of the whip rather than an active defection to another party.
As a group, they could band themselves together under a banner such as the "Independent Conservative Party" (as happened with the Labour split of 1932 and the Liberal Unionists of the 1880s and '90s). They might even, as such, carry their local associations with them.
Or they could join another party en masse, tho that is less likely, especially as they are still Conservatives by inclination and many of them moderate Brexiteers. |
Surely the constituency party ought to be able to trigger a by-election themselves. Is this not the case? To my mind the wishes of the people of the constituency are better represented by the policies than the individual.
Obviously if a GE is guaranteed within a 'short' period, a by-election would be unnecessary. |  |
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| These 21 rebels... on 09:28 - Sep 4 with 1519 views | Swansea_Blue |
| These 21 rebels... on 09:08 - Sep 4 by artsbossbeard |
Their constituents should greet them with a pat on their collective backs safe in the knowledge that their stance against party dictatorship should be admired and yarns should told to children at bedtime as a perfect example of sticking to principles.
A mural to the 21 should be painted on a public toilet wall (outside facing) in Biggleswade.
Things you won't be forced out of Tory party for doing:
• Lying to Parliament
• Breaching ministerial codes
• Gross incompetence
• Racist language
• Grabbing a peaceful protestor by the neck
• Voting against the government six months ago
Things that will force you out:
• Voting against the government now, because you are worried about the lives and livelihoods of your constituents [Post edited 4 Sep 2019 9:13]
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You'd think people would recognise the sacrifice they've made wouldn't you, but Brexit kool aid is intoxicating stuff. So the usual language of betrayal is being used (by some anyway). |  |
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| These 21 rebels... on 09:34 - Sep 4 with 1492 views | artsbossbeard |
| These 21 rebels... on 09:28 - Sep 4 by Swansea_Blue |
You'd think people would recognise the sacrifice they've made wouldn't you, but Brexit kool aid is intoxicating stuff. So the usual language of betrayal is being used (by some anyway). |
Yep, the word "betrayal" is all over my Facebook feed right now. | |
| Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing. | | Poll: | Raining in IP8 - shall I get the washing in? |
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| These 21 rebels... on 09:41 - Sep 4 with 1456 views | EJP |
Apparently, if Theresa May had treated her rebels the way Boris Johnson has treated his, Boris Johnson would not and could not be prime minister now. |  | | |
| These 21 rebels... on 09:41 - Sep 4 with 1448 views | Guthrum |
| These 21 rebels... on 09:24 - Sep 4 by NthQldITFC |
Surely the constituency party ought to be able to trigger a by-election themselves. Is this not the case? To my mind the wishes of the people of the constituency are better represented by the policies than the individual.
Obviously if a GE is guaranteed within a 'short' period, a by-election would be unnecessary. |
The constituency can only do it if the MP is guilty of serious misconduct (e.g. a criminal conviction which falls short of the criteria for instant expulsion from the House). Then a petition for recall can be mounted, which must be signed by 10% of registered voters in that constituency to trigger a by-election.
This only became law in 2015 and has only been successfully used twice, in Peterborough and in Brecon & Radnorshire. | |
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| These 21 rebels... on 09:48 - Sep 4 with 1417 views | Oldsmoker |
| These 21 rebels... on 09:06 - Sep 4 by Guthrum |
They lose some privileges such as admin help and office space. They become part of the opposition rather than the Government. They no longer have the support of a local constituency party apparatus, altho that will depend upon the attitude of their particular association and its members.
The constituency still has an MP, is represented in Parliament, so there is no necessity for a by-election. The partyless MPs could trigger one voluntarily, but there would be little point with a seemingly imminent General Election. It would also be unusual following the deprivation of the whip rather than an active defection to another party.
As a group, they could band themselves together under a banner such as the "Independent Conservative Party" (as happened with the Labour split of 1932 and the Liberal Unionists of the 1880s and '90s). They might even, as such, carry their local associations with them.
Or they could join another party en masse, tho that is less likely, especially as they are still Conservatives by inclination and many of them moderate Brexiteers. |
Some of the rebel MP's may find the members of their local Conservative association are Boris fans. It would be interesting to know - but hard to find out - if they would continue to support their rebel MP.
It's been suggested by many this morning (media, twitterati etc) that they should form a new conservative party grouping called "One Nation" or something along those lines. They can claim to still be part of the party and eventually hope to be invited back. Johnson will need their votes soon and so will make a deal with them.
Johnson has tried a huge bluff and everyone has called it. He is not controlling events - quite the reverse - events are controlling him. |  |
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| These 21 rebels... on 09:55 - Sep 4 with 1381 views | bournemouthblue |
| These 21 rebels... on 09:48 - Sep 4 by Oldsmoker |
Some of the rebel MP's may find the members of their local Conservative association are Boris fans. It would be interesting to know - but hard to find out - if they would continue to support their rebel MP.
It's been suggested by many this morning (media, twitterati etc) that they should form a new conservative party grouping called "One Nation" or something along those lines. They can claim to still be part of the party and eventually hope to be invited back. Johnson will need their votes soon and so will make a deal with them.
Johnson has tried a huge bluff and everyone has called it. He is not controlling events - quite the reverse - events are controlling him. |
Boris only has himself to blame
He could have been leader 3 years ago and bottled it knowing Brexit would be the impossible job
He let Theresa take the fall and has now snuck in there thinking he can save the day
He is finding it a lot harder than he thought it would be, making some serious miscalculations so far. He's in great danger of turning public against himself and the Tories full stop.
This People versus Parliament tag that the leave lobby seem to be going for will backfire spectacularly given much of the loudest Brexiteers come from the Elites of Society
Even the banks seem to be siding with Corbyn now which is bad news for the Tories indeed | |
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| These 21 rebels... on 09:55 - Sep 4 with 1376 views | BlueBadger |
| These 21 rebels... on 09:41 - Sep 4 by EJP |
Apparently, if Theresa May had treated her rebels the way Boris Johnson has treated his, Boris Johnson would not and could not be prime minister now. |
...because we'd have had yet another general election and we'd be looking at a coalition government right now? |  |
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| These 21 rebels... on 10:01 - Sep 4 with 1353 views | Guthrum |
| These 21 rebels... on 09:48 - Sep 4 by Oldsmoker |
Some of the rebel MP's may find the members of their local Conservative association are Boris fans. It would be interesting to know - but hard to find out - if they would continue to support their rebel MP.
It's been suggested by many this morning (media, twitterati etc) that they should form a new conservative party grouping called "One Nation" or something along those lines. They can claim to still be part of the party and eventually hope to be invited back. Johnson will need their votes soon and so will make a deal with them.
Johnson has tried a huge bluff and everyone has called it. He is not controlling events - quite the reverse - events are controlling him. |
Indeed, the local associations are likely to be split on the issue. Especially given there appears to have been a degree of UKIP/BP entryism. There will be personal loyalties as well as political ones.
I'm not sure Johnson's administration will last long enough to patch up any kind of rapprochment with the rebels. Certainly not without a major U-turn on the sticky issue of No Deal (which would negate his support from other quarters).
I sometimes wonder how the local organisation must feel when an MP crosses the floor to join their party. There's often a prospective candidate whom they have been promoting and who has been leading local campaigns - suddenly they are cut out. | |
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| These 21 rebels... on 10:10 - Sep 4 with 1317 views | Guthrum |
| These 21 rebels... on 09:34 - Sep 4 by artsbossbeard |
Yep, the word "betrayal" is all over my Facebook feed right now. |
I'm not even going to venture onto the comments section of the Telegraph today. Mind you, it's essentially just a propaganda rag for the Brexit Party nowadays. | |
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| These 21 rebels... on 10:15 - Sep 4 with 1303 views | No9 |
| These 21 rebels... on 09:08 - Sep 4 by artsbossbeard |
Their constituents should greet them with a pat on their collective backs safe in the knowledge that their stance against party dictatorship should be admired and yarns should told to children at bedtime as a perfect example of sticking to principles.
A mural to the 21 should be painted on a public toilet wall (outside facing) in Biggleswade.
Things you won't be forced out of Tory party for doing:
• Lying to Parliament
• Breaching ministerial codes
• Gross incompetence
• Racist language
• Grabbing a peaceful protestor by the neck
• Voting against the government six months ago
Things that will force you out:
• Voting against the government now, because you are worried about the lives and livelihoods of your constituents [Post edited 4 Sep 2019 9:13]
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Excellent post | | | |
| These 21 rebels... on 10:21 - Sep 4 with 1271 views | Oldsmoker |
| These 21 rebels... on 10:01 - Sep 4 by Guthrum |
Indeed, the local associations are likely to be split on the issue. Especially given there appears to have been a degree of UKIP/BP entryism. There will be personal loyalties as well as political ones.
I'm not sure Johnson's administration will last long enough to patch up any kind of rapprochment with the rebels. Certainly not without a major U-turn on the sticky issue of No Deal (which would negate his support from other quarters).
I sometimes wonder how the local organisation must feel when an MP crosses the floor to join their party. There's often a prospective candidate whom they have been promoting and who has been leading local campaigns - suddenly they are cut out. |
Corbyn has not been as effective in opposition as I had hoped.
Brexit has shown that the main opposition to the Conservatives and those mainly responsible for defeating the Conservatives are the Conservatives themselves. May and Johnson have both found this out the hard way.
The Cons have the ERG on the right, the flip-floppers with no principles who side with whoever is leader, and the rebels to the left. They really are in disarray.
Off to the shops to get some more popcorn. | |
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| These 21 rebels... on 10:24 - Sep 4 with 1252 views | itfcjoe |
| These 21 rebels... on 09:06 - Sep 4 by BlueRaider |
According to the radio if the tory whip has been withdrawn then they cannot be tory candidates and have no legal position to fight it as the consequence was made clear before the vote. What Hammond and others may do is to stand as independents at a forthcoming election. |
Deselection watch: One of the would-be-rebels, former Chancellor Philip Hammond, was last night [Monday] reselected as Tory candidate for Runnymede and Weybridge by the executive council of his local association. (This local councillor was present and has been tweeting about it.) It seems Hammond saw what was coming and moved quickly to get his name back on the ballot paper. This puts CCHQ in a bit of a bind — are they really going to overrule a grassroots association which has decided to readopt its MP of 22 years, and one who was chancellor of the exchequer until a few weeks ago? Crucially, do they even have the power to do so? This Tory academic says they definitely do. But another party source texts Playbook to say they are “fairly sure that if you have been reselected as a Tory candidate by your constituency, you cannot have the whip withdrawn for three months.” |  |
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