| When Lambert says “ systems don’t win you games players do†what does he 09:03 - Jan 12 with 3186 views | CopfordBlue |
mean. Genuine question as I get confused every time he starts talking about this.
Yesterday he went on to say how the team had played a different way. Is that a new “system”? Are formations “systems”?
We played really well in the first half yesterday and it was good to watch. Refreshing to see us have a few shots on targets and look threatening when we attacked. Let’s be realistic though the gulf in resources between us and Accrington is so great that we should be able to beat them in one of the two games we play them in a season. Lambert’s post-match comments come across to me as arrogant and as if he’s above scrutiny or being questioned despite our dreadful form since mid-October.
If he thinks formations, playing players in their strongest positions, strategies and tactics are all boll#@ks because they all come into the category of “systems” then the sooner he goes the better as we’ll never get anywhere if his only plan is more players and better players. Is this what he means though or is he talking about something more subtle and just trying to be a smart in front of journalists to try and belittle them? Journalists who in the main have been more than fair to a manager with a win percentage below 30% during his time here.
[Post edited 12 Jan 2020 9:04]
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| When Lambert says “ systems don’t win you games players do” what does he on 16:41 - Jan 12 with 1406 views | SomethingBlue |
NB — Guardiola in his pre-match bit before the Villa game just now said that systems are irrelevant. As he has many times before. I'd just take it as a thing managers at all levels say when they don't want to go into detail. [Post edited 12 Jan 2020 16:41]
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| When Lambert says “ systems don’t win you games players do” what does he on 16:48 - Jan 12 with 1392 views | hector_clifford |
I'm still a bit unsure about what, take it in the phone box, means! | |
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| When Lambert says “ systems don’t win you games players do” what does he on 16:51 - Jan 12 with 1388 views | uefacup81 |
| When Lambert says “ systems don’t win you games players do” what does he on 09:58 - Jan 12 by SomethingBlue |
Your second par is the crux of it — can't say it often enough that pretty much every top manager trots out the "players before systems" stuff, pretty much as a way of avoiding discussion. Guardiola, Klopp, Mourinho, they all do it. |
I reckon there are two sides to it:
1) Lambert has always come across to me as someone who puts the players' ability above his own. He merely picks the side and sets the tactics - it's down to the players to put it all into action. Didn't he say, not long after he'd joined, something along the lines of that if the players put in the effort and play the way he tells them to, he'll never criticise them for bad results? I think he's very keen that the players get the praise they deserve, and not him.
2) Why should press conferences be used to grill him on his tactics and systems? Clearly he'd done stuff that improved the way the team played, and helped facilitate the victory. Clubs spend huge amounts of time and resources analysing the way their opponents play - let's not make it easy for them by discussing our tactics in depth in front of the assembled media! |  |
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| When Lambert says “ systems don’t win you games players do” what does he on 18:13 - Jan 12 with 1367 views | Wickets |
| When Lambert says “ systems don’t win you games players do” what does he on 10:05 - Jan 12 by Herbivore |
Chambers and Woolfy were superb, both of them bagged an assist and provided a potent and unexpected attacking threat. Was good to see. If we do continue with this system I still think we'd benefit from a left sided CB who is comfortable on the ball to give us better balance. |
Well join the club i have been saying since before the season started that we need a quality CB hopfully a leftie ! |  | | |
| When Lambert says “ systems don’t win you games players do” what does he on 18:22 - Jan 12 with 1364 views | Rocky |
| When Lambert says “ systems don’t win you games players do” what does he on 09:31 - Jan 12 by Chrisd |
Perhaps he's finally realised playing players in their best positions is the way forward? You would've thought an ECL winner, who played in Germany, would've known that from the first day of his appointment. |
Wait. He's played in Germany??
He should have said. |  | | |
| When Lambert says “ systems don’t win you games players do” what does he on 23:01 - Jan 12 with 1333 views | SamWhiteUK |
I think I have given up reading Lambert's interviews after yesterdays, the lack of cohesion gives me a headache.
"Players win games, not systems"
Ok, so when we've gone without a win in 14 games because you've picked a team like a bingo caller and changed the formation every week, is that not players without a system?
And the first time you play the same team twice, we put in by far our best performance of the season, is that still the players? Or is it that we used a sort of, I'm not sure what to call it, system?
I just give up with it. A lot of the time it reads like he doesn't even finish one sentence before starting the next.
If systems aren't what wins games, it's the players, then what the f do we do in training? Surely we wouldn't even need a manager in that case? |  | | |
| When Lambert says “ systems don’t win you games players do” what does he on 07:18 - Jan 13 with 1303 views | Bluefish |
| When Lambert says “ systems don’t win you games players do” what does he on 23:01 - Jan 12 by SamWhiteUK |
I think I have given up reading Lambert's interviews after yesterdays, the lack of cohesion gives me a headache.
"Players win games, not systems"
Ok, so when we've gone without a win in 14 games because you've picked a team like a bingo caller and changed the formation every week, is that not players without a system?
And the first time you play the same team twice, we put in by far our best performance of the season, is that still the players? Or is it that we used a sort of, I'm not sure what to call it, system?
I just give up with it. A lot of the time it reads like he doesn't even finish one sentence before starting the next.
If systems aren't what wins games, it's the players, then what the f do we do in training? Surely we wouldn't even need a manager in that case? |
Quite |  |
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| When Lambert says “ systems don’t win you games players do” what does he on 08:42 - Jan 13 with 1287 views | itfcjoe |
| When Lambert says “ systems don’t win you games players do” what does he on 09:54 - Jan 12 by Mullet |
It’s a very strange tack to take, as it is essentially implying he doesn’t really have much of an effect or his job is not that important.
But I think this is the inherent danger of scrutinising post-match pressers which to a lot of managers are a burden, where they must justify themselves and perform to people they probably don’t respect in terms of football insight.
What it probably shows is he is trying to imbue the players with the belief they’ve been lacking and put the focus on them now we’ve won a game, and so convincingly too. Not necessarily a bad thing, but he’s come off really poorly again and got away with it very lightly from the usual reactions to stuff like this. |
Players are the most important thing, and getting them motivated and firing is his job - putting them in the best position to do so is part of his job.
Even if you hear Bryan Klug speak, he says the most important thing for the academy is quality of recruitment. Recruitment of good players is the be all and end all in football - but that does have to be married up with an approach that works. |  |
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| When Lambert says “ systems don’t win you games players do” what does he on 08:50 - Jan 13 with 1274 views | Bluefish |
| When Lambert says “ systems don’t win you games players do” what does he on 08:42 - Jan 13 by itfcjoe |
Players are the most important thing, and getting them motivated and firing is his job - putting them in the best position to do so is part of his job.
Even if you hear Bryan Klug speak, he says the most important thing for the academy is quality of recruitment. Recruitment of good players is the be all and end all in football - but that does have to be married up with an approach that works. |
We have the same players as before but pre match on saturday it was agreed that we have a system for them and it was great to see a settled side for a change. The difference was staggering.
Watford have the same players from before Pearson getting there, obviously they are already relegated but he has something like 16 points from 18 and taken them out of the bottom 3 through giving them a system and structure
Yes there is intensity but it is without doubt about taking players and making then a team through clear coaching and guidance. | |
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| When Lambert says “ systems don’t win you games players do” what does he on 08:57 - Jan 13 with 1264 views | itfcjoe |
| When Lambert says “ systems don’t win you games players do” what does he on 08:50 - Jan 13 by Bluefish |
We have the same players as before but pre match on saturday it was agreed that we have a system for them and it was great to see a settled side for a change. The difference was staggering.
Watford have the same players from before Pearson getting there, obviously they are already relegated but he has something like 16 points from 18 and taken them out of the bottom 3 through giving them a system and structure
Yes there is intensity but it is without doubt about taking players and making then a team through clear coaching and guidance. |
But the players need to be there in the first place in order to be able to do that.
Organisation is absolutely key, but that is part of getting the best out of the players you have.
You could put a novice in charge of Man City who doesn't know how to set a team up and he'd still win games, because the players are so good - Saturday highlighted how disoagnised we've been this season for everyone to see | |
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| When Lambert says “ systems don’t win you games players do” what does he on 09:42 - Jan 13 with 1243 views | Pinewoodblue |
| When Lambert says “ systems don’t win you games players do” what does he on 08:42 - Jan 13 by itfcjoe |
Players are the most important thing, and getting them motivated and firing is his job - putting them in the best position to do so is part of his job.
Even if you hear Bryan Klug speak, he says the most important thing for the academy is quality of recruitment. Recruitment of good players is the be all and end all in football - but that does have to be married up with an approach that works. |
Rather than players alone it is the partnerships they form that win games.
Lambert presumably, with all his chopping and changing, wouldn’t agree. |  |
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| When Lambert says “ systems don’t win you games players do” what does he on 09:48 - Jan 13 with 1235 views | MrTown |
| When Lambert says “ systems don’t win you games players do” what does he on 09:22 - Jan 12 by Bluefish |
He is saying that he wasn't happy being called out by the press and his boss and being forced to go down the strongest side route over rotation and he is trying to find a reason to credit something else for it working. |
2+2=5 and all that. |  |
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| When Lambert says “ systems don’t win you games players do” what does he on 09:50 - Jan 13 with 1231 views | MrTown |
| When Lambert says “ systems don’t win you games players do” what does he on 08:50 - Jan 13 by Bluefish |
We have the same players as before but pre match on saturday it was agreed that we have a system for them and it was great to see a settled side for a change. The difference was staggering.
Watford have the same players from before Pearson getting there, obviously they are already relegated but he has something like 16 points from 18 and taken them out of the bottom 3 through giving them a system and structure
Yes there is intensity but it is without doubt about taking players and making then a team through clear coaching and guidance. |
Trying to compare Watford and Ipswich's relegation scenarios as the same to fit his agenda.
And he still has 'Lambert Out' as his avatar.
This guy is a comedy character  | |
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| When Lambert says “ systems don’t win you games players do” what does he on 10:21 - Jan 13 with 1220 views | unstableblue |
| When Lambert says “ systems don’t win you games players do” what does he on 09:16 - Jan 12 by Chrisd |
If we see more performances like our first half display yesterday, I don't think too many will be complaining (including me) whether that's about the formation or personnel used. What I do think is PL is getting some clarity on playing players in their rightful positions and that's helping massively, especially in selecting a formation to use. Also, that midfield mess of ours where we had so many options is now becoming less problematic whether that's through injury, suspension or form. He's got a nucleus of Judge and Bishop vying for the No.10 role, Huws and Downes as his first choice central pairing with Skuse and Dozzell as back up. Nolan is down the pecking order and our wingers aren't part of the plan. Edwards will be on the bench when KVY returns. Equally, I don't think our wingers are good enough anyhow, well apart from Dobra who has shown he has potential, but nothing more.
So in summary, continue to work on and deploy the formation adopted against Wycombe and Accrington and play players in their rightful positions, there job done. However, there have been many saying this on this forum for the last couple of months, but if the penny has finally dropped for PL, better late than never! [Post edited 12 Jan 2020 9:21]
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Good points here:
"Also, that midfield mess of ours where we had so many options is now becoming less problematic whether that's through injury, suspension or form. He's got a nucleus of Judge and Bishop vying for the No.10 role, Huws and Downes as his first choice central pairing with Skuse and Dozzell as back up. Nolan is down the pecking order and our wingers aren't part of the plan. Edwards will be on the bench when KVY returns. Equally, I don't think our wingers are good enough anyhow, well apart from Dobra who has shown he has potential, but nothing more."
Would agree with that, although I'm not sure Lambert sees Nolan well down the pecking order. Andhe may be the problem. Not saying I don't rate Nolan, I just think he doesn't quite fit into the 3 midfield roles you describe as well as the other midfielders do. Hopefully Lambert sees this. |  |
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| When Lambert says “ systems don’t win you games players do” what does he on 10:50 - Jan 13 with 1208 views | SamWhiteUK |
| When Lambert says “ systems don’t win you games players do” what does he on 08:57 - Jan 13 by itfcjoe |
But the players need to be there in the first place in order to be able to do that.
Organisation is absolutely key, but that is part of getting the best out of the players you have.
You could put a novice in charge of Man City who doesn't know how to set a team up and he'd still win games, because the players are so good - Saturday highlighted how disoagnised we've been this season for everyone to see |
I'm a bit lost now Joe. Are you saying we have the players, but we have been very disorganised? Or are you saying that this weekend we weren't so disorganised and the players could shine?
Because either way, the system is playing a part. It's not just players that win games, evidently, or we'd be top of the league by a country mile | | | |
| When Lambert says “ systems don’t win you games players do” what does he on 11:20 - Jan 13 with 1193 views | MrTown |
| When Lambert says “ systems don’t win you games players do” what does he on 10:50 - Jan 13 by SamWhiteUK |
I'm a bit lost now Joe. Are you saying we have the players, but we have been very disorganised? Or are you saying that this weekend we weren't so disorganised and the players could shine?
Because either way, the system is playing a part. It's not just players that win games, evidently, or we'd be top of the league by a country mile |
I think players will also be the key to any successful team, but organisation and instruction is still fundamental to get the best out them.
I don't buy this systems, don't win you games.
The bravery, and suprise of Chris Wilder's 3-5-2 with over/underlapping centre backs got them 2 promotions and great first half to life in Premier League football in my honest opinion.
I don't think Sheff Utd have the 6th best squad in the premier league (current position), but every player knows that system like its the back of their hand. | |
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| When Lambert says “ systems don’t win you games players do” what does he on 13:54 - Jan 13 with 1168 views | itfcjoe |
| When Lambert says “ systems don’t win you games players do” what does he on 10:50 - Jan 13 by SamWhiteUK |
I'm a bit lost now Joe. Are you saying we have the players, but we have been very disorganised? Or are you saying that this weekend we weren't so disorganised and the players could shine?
Because either way, the system is playing a part. It's not just players that win games, evidently, or we'd be top of the league by a country mile |
As with everything it's a combination of a lot of factors - but without good players you aren't going to get anywhere.
Saturday was one of the first team performances for weeks, and we battered the form team in the league. It's so important that we keep players playing in a familiar way and devlop partnerships and systems because we have the players to get out of this league, and teams won't be able to touch us if we do.
Having the good players makes it easier and papers over cracks - but means when it clicks it is much better | |
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| When Lambert says “ systems don’t win you games players do” what does he on 14:26 - Jan 13 with 1148 views | Darth_Koont |
Generally, I agree.
Fans seem to get too bogged down in systems as if that's automatically the answer. Maybe it's Football Manager or excessive punditry trying to eke out more air time, but it has become more and more the big topic for debate over the years which it wasn't before.
Having said that, I think we understand that playing players in certain positions makes sense for the team. Some of our worst performances have been when we've tried to make a 442 work with Judge and Edwards the wide players. For me they just don't work well enough there as they leave the central two in a battle and then their relatively poor use and retention of the ball just gives the ball back to the opposition.
So any formation that keeps Judge narrower, pushes Garbutt further up so he can threaten more and gives Edwards space to run into rather than being squeezed out on the touch line automatically seems better for me.
But all that might change when KVY is back, a solid LB comes in to let Garbutt play further forward, Lankester is available, Bishop starts putting together performances etc. Then we might easily go away from Saturday's 352. But it's dependent on the players available rather than picking a system regardless. |  |
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