| Compare and contrast with Britain 12:34 - Apr 27 with 2514 views | factual_blue |
This is from a friend in NZ.
How is your lockdown going? We've had an extra 5 days at level 4 then we go to level 3 tomorrow. I've been going to work as normal as our place is classed as essential although there isn't much admin to do. It's been good to catch up on my work. [name removed] has been in a couple of days as his work place prepares to begin click and collect. Under level 3 businesses can open so long as they can keep the 2 metre distance from customers. We are down to less than 10 new cases a day. I think the death toll is up to around 14. They've all been elderly apart from 2 in their 60's but they had existing health problems. It seems the new cases are still related to overseas travel or to clusters from some rest homes. A dementia ward has been particularly hard hit. New arrivals are put in quarantine for 14 days. We had our Anzac Day on Saturday (like your armistice day). Very poignant this year. We were asked to stand at our gates in silence at dawn. We could hear the last post being played way off in the distance. Last year they 'monday-ised' Anzac Day so we get the Monday off work if the day falls in the weekend. I don't agree with that...but I'll take the day off today Lol. I've stayed away from the news a bit as some of the reporting has been getting me a bit riled up, but I think I'm ok now. How is the UK doing?
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| Compare and contrast with Britain on 20:28 - Apr 27 with 598 views | hype313 |
Bit easier to contain when you are an outpost in the South pacific ocean with a population half of London, spread out between two islands over 1000 miles long.
It's a bit like comparing us to Barcelona and wondering why we aren't in the late stages of the Champions League. [Post edited 27 Apr 2020 20:30]
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| Compare and contrast with Britain on 20:31 - Apr 27 with 594 views | bournemouthblue |
| Compare and contrast with Britain on 12:51 - Apr 27 by gordon |
One of the worst moments so far in the press conferences that I've seen was when Jonathan Van-Tam was asked why we are letting people coming in to the country freely.
He replied that, well, the problem is that people might not be displaying symptoms, so they might fly in to Heathrow just after catching the disease, and they don't have a fever yet so we don't detect that they have the disease, they drive home, and a couple of days later they're symptomatic and infecting people.
The journalist who asked the question (and presumably none of the other journalists) realised that this is precisely what quarantine periods address really effectively, and the answer was nonsensical.
It was (for me, anyway) a really, really profoundly dreadful moment - an 'expert' in a position of authority says something daft and ill-informed, and those whose job it is to hold authority to account nod along without the acuity to challenge.
Then when there is a 'process' question over a missed email or a Prime Minister off sick, those same journalists are rolling around like pigs in sh*t. |
Haven't they said people will be quarantined now for 14 days before coming in?
Another decision from the politicians, very much after the horse has already bolted
I couldn't believe what I was hearing when Heathrow were suggesting other countries should be be checking one either
Who was right I wonder then, countries holding a far firmer grip on things or ours who even when we got to Lockdown, had been fairly bumbly and unclear in what their approach was going to be |  |
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| Compare and contrast with Britain on 20:36 - Apr 27 with 583 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Compare and contrast with Britain on 20:31 - Apr 27 by bournemouthblue |
Haven't they said people will be quarantined now for 14 days before coming in?
Another decision from the politicians, very much after the horse has already bolted
I couldn't believe what I was hearing when Heathrow were suggesting other countries should be be checking one either
Who was right I wonder then, countries holding a far firmer grip on things or ours who even when we got to Lockdown, had been fairly bumbly and unclear in what their approach was going to be |
Whitty explained the reasons behind this at the briefing which did actually seem plausible |  |
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| Compare and contrast with Britain on 21:43 - Apr 27 with 559 views | eireblue |
| Compare and contrast with Britain on 19:50 - Apr 27 by Leaky |
So the increase in car use over the weekend, as shown on the slide shown by the panel on the Downing St. press conference on Sunday doesn't exist. So I suggest your incorrect on your first point. |
No.
You don’t understand the point.
In February, the growth of the virus and characteristics were known.
It is the end of April, we still don’t know how long it will be until “lockdown fatigue” is sufficiently large to have a significant impact on the continuing spread, or if harsher lockdown will be needed. |  | | |
| Compare and contrast with Britain on 21:54 - Apr 27 with 551 views | gordon |
| Compare and contrast with Britain on 20:31 - Apr 27 by bournemouthblue |
Haven't they said people will be quarantined now for 14 days before coming in?
Another decision from the politicians, very much after the horse has already bolted
I couldn't believe what I was hearing when Heathrow were suggesting other countries should be be checking one either
Who was right I wonder then, countries holding a far firmer grip on things or ours who even when we got to Lockdown, had been fairly bumbly and unclear in what their approach was going to be |
It's been rumoured, think there was a leak to Telegraph journalist. |  | | |
| Compare and contrast with Britain on 22:02 - Apr 27 with 547 views | eireblue |
| Compare and contrast with Britain on 19:55 - Apr 27 by Lord_Lucan |
We locked down before NZ and Australia and we locked down one day after Germany. |
The point Callis has made is that the lockdown should be timed with respect to the known spread of the virus within an area that can be locked down.
The U.K. locked down when there was just over 300 deaths.
Germany I think had under a 100.
New Zealand, 0 and now have around 20 deaths. | | | |
| Compare and contrast with Britain on 22:42 - Apr 27 with 530 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Compare and contrast with Britain on 20:28 - Apr 27 by hype313 |
Bit easier to contain when you are an outpost in the South pacific ocean with a population half of London, spread out between two islands over 1000 miles long.
It's a bit like comparing us to Barcelona and wondering why we aren't in the late stages of the Champions League. [Post edited 27 Apr 2020 20:30]
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I don't think that gives the full context though. Auckland is larger than any city in the UK other than London.
National population density might not be an entirely helpful measure - how concentrated the population is is possibly a better reckoner. Uruguay is not particularly densely populated, but over half the population live in a city of 1.8 million.
A better measure for context may be urbanisation - and New Zealand is more urbanised than the UK. |  | | |
| Compare and contrast with Britain on 05:41 - Apr 28 with 488 views | hype313 |
| Compare and contrast with Britain on 22:42 - Apr 27 by Clapham_Junction |
I don't think that gives the full context though. Auckland is larger than any city in the UK other than London.
National population density might not be an entirely helpful measure - how concentrated the population is is possibly a better reckoner. Uruguay is not particularly densely populated, but over half the population live in a city of 1.8 million.
A better measure for context may be urbanisation - and New Zealand is more urbanised than the UK. |
Yes but New Zealand isn't an international flight hub either, also doesn't have close proximity to mainland Europe on its doorstep, I tip my hat to them for what they have done, and by quarantining all incoming people on flights from the outset, but it's still nonsense to compare us with them given the demographics and geography, Germany would be a better comparison, and they have had an arguably better outcome than us. | |
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| Compare and contrast with Britain on 06:34 - Apr 28 with 482 views | IPS_wich |
| Compare and contrast with Britain on 05:41 - Apr 28 by hype313 |
Yes but New Zealand isn't an international flight hub either, also doesn't have close proximity to mainland Europe on its doorstep, I tip my hat to them for what they have done, and by quarantining all incoming people on flights from the outset, but it's still nonsense to compare us with them given the demographics and geography, Germany would be a better comparison, and they have had an arguably better outcome than us. |
Ok - let's ignore NZ then. Let's use Australia as a comparison - which by the way has six cities bigger than anything in the Uk other than London.
Australia has had 6,728 confirmed cases and 84 deaths, with 16 new cases confirmed in the last 48 hours.
UK announced the lock down on 23 March, Australia 2-3 days afterwards. So why the difference?
Only time will tell whether warmer weather makes a difference, but in reality in Australia we are in Autumn and the weather has been in the low-20s for a few weeks now - hardly scorching temperatures.
As far as I can tell, there are two main differences:
1) The Australian lockdown (like the NZ lockdown) included a 14-day quarantine for anyone coming into the country.
2) Australians - by and large - are a more compliant people* and have been better at observing the lock down. Yes, there were a couple of issues in NSW to start with (see the pictures from Bondi), but generally we've stayed home.
Combining these two factors has meant that five weeks in, nobody is coming in to the country and spreading the virus, and generally people are shacked up at home and not spreading it. The government's biggest concern (same as NZ) is that they've been so effective that it's not inconceivable the virus will be eradicated from the country within a few weeks - but that is predicated on keeping the quarantine in place. Which means, no tourists, no business visitors and no leaving the country. There appears to be no idea how that can be eased without a vaccination. Some health bods were speculating last week that we might need to keep ourselves isolated for 2-3 years!!!
*The whole 'more compliant' thing is something that really shocked me when we moved here seven years ago. I had imagined Australia was full of free libertarians who railed against authority; the reality is quite different. It is so unusual to see anyone going over the speed limit, even on quiet freeways, everyone is just sat there on cruise control bang on the 100/110kph limit for mile after mile. Can go an hour without someone overtaking, and even then, they are probably only 5-6kph over the limit. [Post edited 28 Apr 2020 6:36]
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| Compare and contrast with Britain on 22:09 - Apr 28 with 429 views | Eireannach_gorm |
| Compare and contrast with Britain on 06:34 - Apr 28 by IPS_wich |
Ok - let's ignore NZ then. Let's use Australia as a comparison - which by the way has six cities bigger than anything in the Uk other than London.
Australia has had 6,728 confirmed cases and 84 deaths, with 16 new cases confirmed in the last 48 hours.
UK announced the lock down on 23 March, Australia 2-3 days afterwards. So why the difference?
Only time will tell whether warmer weather makes a difference, but in reality in Australia we are in Autumn and the weather has been in the low-20s for a few weeks now - hardly scorching temperatures.
As far as I can tell, there are two main differences:
1) The Australian lockdown (like the NZ lockdown) included a 14-day quarantine for anyone coming into the country.
2) Australians - by and large - are a more compliant people* and have been better at observing the lock down. Yes, there were a couple of issues in NSW to start with (see the pictures from Bondi), but generally we've stayed home.
Combining these two factors has meant that five weeks in, nobody is coming in to the country and spreading the virus, and generally people are shacked up at home and not spreading it. The government's biggest concern (same as NZ) is that they've been so effective that it's not inconceivable the virus will be eradicated from the country within a few weeks - but that is predicated on keeping the quarantine in place. Which means, no tourists, no business visitors and no leaving the country. There appears to be no idea how that can be eased without a vaccination. Some health bods were speculating last week that we might need to keep ourselves isolated for 2-3 years!!!
*The whole 'more compliant' thing is something that really shocked me when we moved here seven years ago. I had imagined Australia was full of free libertarians who railed against authority; the reality is quite different. It is so unusual to see anyone going over the speed limit, even on quiet freeways, everyone is just sat there on cruise control bang on the 100/110kph limit for mile after mile. Can go an hour without someone overtaking, and even then, they are probably only 5-6kph over the limit. [Post edited 28 Apr 2020 6:36]
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They are more compliant because of better enforcement. My very uncompliant brother emigrated to Oz more than 30 years ago and he is a changed man now. Your quarantine point is the salient one. |  | | |
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