| Remember folks - next time there is an election 13:43 - May 25 with 2927 views | Keno |
if you are tired of a corrupt, deceitful government full of self serving incompetent sleaze bags and want to protect the NHS together with the UK's credibility DONT VOTE TORY
Vote for change, vote LibDem you know it makes sense
(Phil/Gav?Mark/Support can you sticky this until the next election) |  |
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| Remember folks - next time there is an election on 18:28 - May 25 with 992 views | rgp1 |
| Remember folks - next time there is an election on 18:22 - May 25 by DanTheMan |
By far one of my biggest pet peeves with how Parliament works is that people do not have to give satisfactory answers to questions, but calling someone who lies a liar is some heinous offence.
The whole thing needs modernising, it's ridiculous. |
I said that we need change but on here you tend to get lambasted for saying that! FWIW I think the 1922 committee will oust Johnson and put someone else in. Then at the next election labour will probably club together with all the main opposition parties and form a rainbow alliance to get the tories out. Politics always works in cycles. |  | | |
| Remember folks - next time there is an election on 18:35 - May 25 with 975 views | DanTheMan |
| Remember folks - next time there is an election on 18:28 - May 25 by rgp1 |
I said that we need change but on here you tend to get lambasted for saying that! FWIW I think the 1922 committee will oust Johnson and put someone else in. Then at the next election labour will probably club together with all the main opposition parties and form a rainbow alliance to get the tories out. Politics always works in cycles. |
I think it may depend what the change you think should be!
For what it's worth, I definitely think the political systems we have in this country are in need of serious modernisation but I don't think there is any real appetite for it. Those in power have no real wish to change it, it doesn't win additional votes.
Ideally I would like to see updated rules for debates, stronger limits on what MPs can and can't do, stricter punishments for those who outright lie and my biggest ask would be proportional representation in one form or another. I think the last thing would be key to actually representing the country properly. |  |
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| Remember folks - next time there is an election on 18:39 - May 25 with 969 views | chicoazul |
| Remember folks - next time there is an election on 17:47 - May 25 by XYZ |
1. Lib Dem policy is to rejoin the EU ... |
Hence almost. |  |
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| Remember folks - next time there is an election on 18:44 - May 25 with 942 views | rgp1 |
| Remember folks - next time there is an election on 18:35 - May 25 by DanTheMan |
I think it may depend what the change you think should be!
For what it's worth, I definitely think the political systems we have in this country are in need of serious modernisation but I don't think there is any real appetite for it. Those in power have no real wish to change it, it doesn't win additional votes.
Ideally I would like to see updated rules for debates, stronger limits on what MPs can and can't do, stricter punishments for those who outright lie and my biggest ask would be proportional representation in one form or another. I think the last thing would be key to actually representing the country properly. |
Correct as you say the main parties wouldn't be Turkey's voting for Christmas. | | | |
| Remember folks - next time there is an election on 18:58 - May 25 with 905 views | Keno |
| Remember folks - next time there is an election on 18:39 - May 25 by chicoazul |
Hence almost. |
Human rights | |
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| Remember folks - next time there is an election on 19:52 - May 25 with 864 views | XYZ |
| Remember folks - next time there is an election on 18:39 - May 25 by chicoazul |
Hence almost. |
2. The rule of law. | | | |
| Remember folks - next time there is an election on 19:52 - May 25 with 860 views | Plums |
| Remember folks - next time there is an election on 17:13 - May 25 by chicoazul |
Tories and Lib Dems think exactly the same thing about almost everything. |
Jesus wept. I’ll have whatever you’re drinking. |  |
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| Remember folks - next time there is an election on 20:39 - May 25 with 821 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Remember folks - next time there is an election on 18:39 - May 25 by chicoazul |
Hence almost. |
There was a time where you could barely put a fag paper between the Orange Book LibDems like Nick Clegg, David Laws, Chris Huhne and One Nation Tories like David Cameron, Rory Stewart, Ken Clarke, David Gauke. But those days are gone.
The other problem with the LibDems, as Rory Stewart pointed out the other day, is that everything is run by the membership. These folks are bat sh1t crazy and are not representative of their MP’s who are more economically Conservative.
The Teal movement in Australia sounds very promising. They are basically fiscally conservative (blue) with green views on climate.
They cost the Conservatives the election earlier this month, delivering a Labor majority despite a drop in their vote share. |  |
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| Remember folks - next time there is an election on 21:08 - May 25 with 800 views | Keno |
| Remember folks - next time there is an election on 20:39 - May 25 by GlasgowBlue |
There was a time where you could barely put a fag paper between the Orange Book LibDems like Nick Clegg, David Laws, Chris Huhne and One Nation Tories like David Cameron, Rory Stewart, Ken Clarke, David Gauke. But those days are gone.
The other problem with the LibDems, as Rory Stewart pointed out the other day, is that everything is run by the membership. These folks are bat sh1t crazy and are not representative of their MP’s who are more economically Conservative.
The Teal movement in Australia sounds very promising. They are basically fiscally conservative (blue) with green views on climate.
They cost the Conservatives the election earlier this month, delivering a Labor majority despite a drop in their vote share. |
Rory Stewart wouid make an excellent Lib Dem leader | |
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| Remember folks - next time there is an election on 01:05 - May 26 with 731 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Remember folks - next time there is an election on 18:00 - May 25 by GlasgowBlue |
When calling people 'thick' Harry, It's probably best to avoid littering your post with numerous spelling mistakes. Otherwise it may lead people to conclude that you are the thickie. |
Maybe there’s a feckwit scale? Posting a few typos suggests less of a “thickie” that being too dumb to see through the lies of this “Get Brexit Done” government. We could call it the Dorris Scale. Harry probably hits 3/10 at a push. |  |
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| Remember folks - next time there is an election on 01:24 - May 26 with 719 views | BlueBadger |
| Remember folks - next time there is an election on 17:50 - May 25 by sotd78 |
Time for a New Conservative party? Like New Labour? Or vote Green = let's all be luvvy to the planet; no nuclear; over-run by the Ruskies? Or Lib Dem - we won't sell our souls (except to get into power = oh we have already done that) or Labour (quick sweep that Corbynista manifesto under the carpet). Shame there's not a real None Of The Above Party. |
Choo choo! the whatabouttery train to 'Buttacurry' is arriving at platform 5! |  |
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| Remember folks - next time there is an election on 03:04 - May 26 with 699 views | IPS_wich |
| Remember folks - next time there is an election on 20:39 - May 25 by GlasgowBlue |
There was a time where you could barely put a fag paper between the Orange Book LibDems like Nick Clegg, David Laws, Chris Huhne and One Nation Tories like David Cameron, Rory Stewart, Ken Clarke, David Gauke. But those days are gone.
The other problem with the LibDems, as Rory Stewart pointed out the other day, is that everything is run by the membership. These folks are bat sh1t crazy and are not representative of their MP’s who are more economically Conservative.
The Teal movement in Australia sounds very promising. They are basically fiscally conservative (blue) with green views on climate.
They cost the Conservatives the election earlier this month, delivering a Labor majority despite a drop in their vote share. |
The Teal movement will be harder in the UK due to the different electoral model that exists in Australia. There are two fundamental differences:
1) Compulsory voting - which means that the politically apathetic still have to get off their backsides and vote and as a consequence the two major parties are essentially centrist parties - Labor (without the 'u') are centre left and the Liberal National coalition are centre right. There isn't much room in between for a third party. The only reason these teal independents have been able to win support is because after nine years in power the Liberal Nationals have started to veer more to the right - especially with regards to climate change and national security. With large parts of Australia impacted by bushfires and flooding in the last two years the Liberal's willfully out of date climate policy has actually become the biggest political issue in the country (the economy is going Ok, unemployment is very low and cost of living is starting to rise but not to the same extent as the UK). The Teals were very overt that they are centre-right at their core but they are demanding action on climate change - which has meant they have won 5-6 seats in the most affluent suburbs in Sydney, Melbourne and Perth - suburbs where the average house price is around 1 million pounds and the residents don't give two hoots about rising cost of living - but they do care when their expensive house and cars are 3m under water.
2) The preference voting system. In the UK if 10,000 people vote in one constituency - 4,000 for the tories, 3,500 for Labour, 2,000 for LibDems and 500 for lets say UKIP - then the tories win the seat. Under the Australian model, then the outcome would be the tories may have won the primary vote, but they haven't won more than 50% of the vote so the seat isn't theirs. In the voting forms we have to rank the candidates in order of preference - rather than just put an 'x' against one candidate - so the counters then go to what they call the 'two party preferred' count and look at the 2,500 votes cast for LibDems and UKIP to see which of the two parties who got the highest primary votes (in this example Labour and Tories) were highest in the ranking. Let's say all of the UKIP voters had Tories second in their ranking and all of the LibDems had Labour second - then the Labour vote under the two party preferred model would be 5,500 for Labour and 4,500 for the tories - so Labour win the seat.
In the election last week, the Liberal Nationals (centre right party) actually had 35% of the primary votes across the country and Labor had 32% - but because the third most popular party in the country is the Greens (who got about 15% of the primary votes) then most Greens had Labor as their second ranked party and a lot of the green votes then converted to Labor.
What happened in the six teal seats was that none of these have ever gone to Labor (remember these are the wealthiest suburbs) - so the Labor and the Greens in these constituencies urged their voters to put the teal as their second choice. We literally had a flyer in our letterbox from Labor that said - These are all the reasons why we would urge you to vote for Labor - but if you don't want to see the Liberal candidate win for the 20th election running then we would urge you to vote for the teal independent as your second preference after the Labor candidate.
In the UK, the Tories keep hold of power because Labour are still trying to drag themselves closer to the centre ground post-Corbyn, the LibDems (who probably have the policies that best align with the general population) have not been a sufficiently credible alternative for decades and blew their one chance to change this perception - plus the Tories benefit from the general disaffection with politics because many people are not bothering to vote and those that do tend to be older conservatives.
In Australia the under-30s overwhelmingly voted for Labor (and over 60s for the Liberals). Given the under-30s in the UK are always the least bothered to go out and vote then the last of compulsory voting means that Labour are always going to struggle to get the numbers. | | | |
| Remember folks - next time there is an election on 05:46 - May 26 with 678 views | solomon |
| Remember folks - next time there is an election on 13:44 - May 25 by J2BLUE |
This is a painful watch. People ask questions, he stands up and says something which has nothing to do with anything and then they just move on. Pointless. |
He and this government will fall, they always do. It’s the damage that will be done to those who are not wealthy and will fall through the cracks which is a real tragedy of our times. |  | | |
| Remember folks - next time there is an election on 06:22 - May 26 with 654 views | fab_lover |
The critical words in what you've written are "self serving".
There is the phenomena known as the "shy Tory". These are people who won't show public support for the Tories but who will, in the privacy of the ballot box, vote for them as they believe it's in their economic interest. They've swallowed, their entire lives, the mantra that "Labour will ruin the economy". The older the people get, the more likely they are to move into that camp, sadly.
Now, one can hope on the current evidence of the highest tax burden for generations that they see sense, however I'm not convinced. Orwell had it right, sadly, in "Animal Farm", and much as I hate the term "sheeple" and refuse to use it, a large proportion of the electorate are like the sheep in that book, incapable of holding any political message in their brains more complex than "two legs bad, four legs good". Go canvassing some time and knock on doors if you don't believe me.
So, whilst 30% of the country resolutely vote Tory, we're not in a great place. Only electoral reform is going to give us the centrist governments enjoyed by the rest of Europe (in the main), and I doubt that's something I'll see in my lifetime - although one can but hope. |  | | |
| Remember folks - next time there is an election on 07:41 - May 26 with 620 views | giant_stow |
| Remember folks - next time there is an election on 03:04 - May 26 by IPS_wich |
The Teal movement will be harder in the UK due to the different electoral model that exists in Australia. There are two fundamental differences:
1) Compulsory voting - which means that the politically apathetic still have to get off their backsides and vote and as a consequence the two major parties are essentially centrist parties - Labor (without the 'u') are centre left and the Liberal National coalition are centre right. There isn't much room in between for a third party. The only reason these teal independents have been able to win support is because after nine years in power the Liberal Nationals have started to veer more to the right - especially with regards to climate change and national security. With large parts of Australia impacted by bushfires and flooding in the last two years the Liberal's willfully out of date climate policy has actually become the biggest political issue in the country (the economy is going Ok, unemployment is very low and cost of living is starting to rise but not to the same extent as the UK). The Teals were very overt that they are centre-right at their core but they are demanding action on climate change - which has meant they have won 5-6 seats in the most affluent suburbs in Sydney, Melbourne and Perth - suburbs where the average house price is around 1 million pounds and the residents don't give two hoots about rising cost of living - but they do care when their expensive house and cars are 3m under water.
2) The preference voting system. In the UK if 10,000 people vote in one constituency - 4,000 for the tories, 3,500 for Labour, 2,000 for LibDems and 500 for lets say UKIP - then the tories win the seat. Under the Australian model, then the outcome would be the tories may have won the primary vote, but they haven't won more than 50% of the vote so the seat isn't theirs. In the voting forms we have to rank the candidates in order of preference - rather than just put an 'x' against one candidate - so the counters then go to what they call the 'two party preferred' count and look at the 2,500 votes cast for LibDems and UKIP to see which of the two parties who got the highest primary votes (in this example Labour and Tories) were highest in the ranking. Let's say all of the UKIP voters had Tories second in their ranking and all of the LibDems had Labour second - then the Labour vote under the two party preferred model would be 5,500 for Labour and 4,500 for the tories - so Labour win the seat.
In the election last week, the Liberal Nationals (centre right party) actually had 35% of the primary votes across the country and Labor had 32% - but because the third most popular party in the country is the Greens (who got about 15% of the primary votes) then most Greens had Labor as their second ranked party and a lot of the green votes then converted to Labor.
What happened in the six teal seats was that none of these have ever gone to Labor (remember these are the wealthiest suburbs) - so the Labor and the Greens in these constituencies urged their voters to put the teal as their second choice. We literally had a flyer in our letterbox from Labor that said - These are all the reasons why we would urge you to vote for Labor - but if you don't want to see the Liberal candidate win for the 20th election running then we would urge you to vote for the teal independent as your second preference after the Labor candidate.
In the UK, the Tories keep hold of power because Labour are still trying to drag themselves closer to the centre ground post-Corbyn, the LibDems (who probably have the policies that best align with the general population) have not been a sufficiently credible alternative for decades and blew their one chance to change this perception - plus the Tories benefit from the general disaffection with politics because many people are not bothering to vote and those that do tend to be older conservatives.
In Australia the under-30s overwhelmingly voted for Labor (and over 60s for the Liberals). Given the under-30s in the UK are always the least bothered to go out and vote then the last of compulsory voting means that Labour are always going to struggle to get the numbers. |
Good read. Ta. |  |
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| Remember folks - next time there is an election on 07:57 - May 26 with 605 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Remember folks - next time there is an election on 03:04 - May 26 by IPS_wich |
The Teal movement will be harder in the UK due to the different electoral model that exists in Australia. There are two fundamental differences:
1) Compulsory voting - which means that the politically apathetic still have to get off their backsides and vote and as a consequence the two major parties are essentially centrist parties - Labor (without the 'u') are centre left and the Liberal National coalition are centre right. There isn't much room in between for a third party. The only reason these teal independents have been able to win support is because after nine years in power the Liberal Nationals have started to veer more to the right - especially with regards to climate change and national security. With large parts of Australia impacted by bushfires and flooding in the last two years the Liberal's willfully out of date climate policy has actually become the biggest political issue in the country (the economy is going Ok, unemployment is very low and cost of living is starting to rise but not to the same extent as the UK). The Teals were very overt that they are centre-right at their core but they are demanding action on climate change - which has meant they have won 5-6 seats in the most affluent suburbs in Sydney, Melbourne and Perth - suburbs where the average house price is around 1 million pounds and the residents don't give two hoots about rising cost of living - but they do care when their expensive house and cars are 3m under water.
2) The preference voting system. In the UK if 10,000 people vote in one constituency - 4,000 for the tories, 3,500 for Labour, 2,000 for LibDems and 500 for lets say UKIP - then the tories win the seat. Under the Australian model, then the outcome would be the tories may have won the primary vote, but they haven't won more than 50% of the vote so the seat isn't theirs. In the voting forms we have to rank the candidates in order of preference - rather than just put an 'x' against one candidate - so the counters then go to what they call the 'two party preferred' count and look at the 2,500 votes cast for LibDems and UKIP to see which of the two parties who got the highest primary votes (in this example Labour and Tories) were highest in the ranking. Let's say all of the UKIP voters had Tories second in their ranking and all of the LibDems had Labour second - then the Labour vote under the two party preferred model would be 5,500 for Labour and 4,500 for the tories - so Labour win the seat.
In the election last week, the Liberal Nationals (centre right party) actually had 35% of the primary votes across the country and Labor had 32% - but because the third most popular party in the country is the Greens (who got about 15% of the primary votes) then most Greens had Labor as their second ranked party and a lot of the green votes then converted to Labor.
What happened in the six teal seats was that none of these have ever gone to Labor (remember these are the wealthiest suburbs) - so the Labor and the Greens in these constituencies urged their voters to put the teal as their second choice. We literally had a flyer in our letterbox from Labor that said - These are all the reasons why we would urge you to vote for Labor - but if you don't want to see the Liberal candidate win for the 20th election running then we would urge you to vote for the teal independent as your second preference after the Labor candidate.
In the UK, the Tories keep hold of power because Labour are still trying to drag themselves closer to the centre ground post-Corbyn, the LibDems (who probably have the policies that best align with the general population) have not been a sufficiently credible alternative for decades and blew their one chance to change this perception - plus the Tories benefit from the general disaffection with politics because many people are not bothering to vote and those that do tend to be older conservatives.
In Australia the under-30s overwhelmingly voted for Labor (and over 60s for the Liberals). Given the under-30s in the UK are always the least bothered to go out and vote then the last of compulsory voting means that Labour are always going to struggle to get the numbers. |
That a very interesting reply. Thanks. | |
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| Remember folks - next time there is an election on 09:19 - May 26 with 558 views | mutters |
Sadly there isn't a single party that I would actively want to vote for at the moment.
It's a case of the least bad....
Hoping to get more clarity around election time and see what cr@p they can all spin into a so-called mannifesto |  |
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