| Brexit question 19:02 - Oct 4 with 3164 views | Trequartista |
If the "Benn Law" didn't exist and the EU had a straight choice between Johnson's proposals and a no deal - which would be the better option for them? |  |
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| Brexit question on 19:16 - Oct 4 with 2512 views | BlueBadger |
Roy Keane, marginally. |  |
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| Brexit question on 19:45 - Oct 4 with 2488 views | Guthrum |
Pretty much identical, given it's a choice between something which won't work and something which already hasn't worked. |  |
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| Brexit question on 20:02 - Oct 4 with 2463 views | BloomBlue |
The Benn law doesnt impact the EU they can reject the deal and reject any request for an extension which would equal no deal.
They have said they would prefer a deal but ready for a no deal.
Iteland would suffer the biggest impact of any EU country in a no deal and they seem to be moving towards expecting that. |  | | |
| Brexit question on 20:10 - Oct 4 with 2449 views | Lord_Mac |
All versions of Brexit are bad for all parties - it's a matter of degree.
No Deal hammers the UK and Ireland disproportionately and other EU states to a lesser degree.
Johnson's proposal is incompatible with the Good Friday Agreement, but if by some "miracle" it got through the EU, it would hammer Ireland, both north and south of the border. Northern Irish people, excepting the DUP crowd, and NI business are very concerned. |  |
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| Brexit question on 20:21 - Oct 4 with 2434 views | Ftnfwest |
Who cares |  | | |
| Brexit question on 20:39 - Oct 4 with 2404 views | hampstead_blue |
The EU want us to remain, for the cash we give.
They will do anything to keep us in. |  |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| Brexit question on 20:41 - Oct 4 with 2394 views | Tangledupin_Blue |
| Brexit question on 20:39 - Oct 4 by hampstead_blue |
The EU want us to remain, for the cash we give.
They will do anything to keep us in. |
You clearly haven't been paying attention for the last three-and-half years. |  |
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| Brexit question on 20:49 - Oct 4 with 2389 views | Trequartista |
Only one answer to the question i asked!
My thinking is that if the Benn Law didn't exist, the EU would accept Johnson's proposals even though they are full of holes as it is marginally better than having no deal at all which is a full hard border.
So really this Benn Law has scuppered a deal because the EU know we have to get an extension. That is why Johnson has been refusing to say what he'd do, but today he was forced by a court to admit he'd have to extend, fully scuppering any deal. Extension, followed by General Election (which probably won't sort anything out) seems to be the only outcome | |
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| Brexit question on 21:03 - Oct 4 with 2361 views | Tangledupin_Blue |
| Brexit question on 20:49 - Oct 4 by Trequartista |
Only one answer to the question i asked!
My thinking is that if the Benn Law didn't exist, the EU would accept Johnson's proposals even though they are full of holes as it is marginally better than having no deal at all which is a full hard border.
So really this Benn Law has scuppered a deal because the EU know we have to get an extension. That is why Johnson has been refusing to say what he'd do, but today he was forced by a court to admit he'd have to extend, fully scuppering any deal. Extension, followed by General Election (which probably won't sort anything out) seems to be the only outcome |
I don't think the EU would accept Johnson's plan as it makes an absolute mockery of the Good Friday agreement.
It is, in any case, such a bad proposal that it is difficult to take seriously. I suspect it is another of Johnson's games. He knows it is unacceptable. He may simply be trying to push the blame for lack of agreement onto the EU or he may have some other (presumably nefarious) purpose for putting forward a plan which has no chance of success. | |
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| Brexit question on 21:15 - Oct 4 with 2337 views | blueislander |
| Brexit question on 20:49 - Oct 4 by Trequartista |
Only one answer to the question i asked!
My thinking is that if the Benn Law didn't exist, the EU would accept Johnson's proposals even though they are full of holes as it is marginally better than having no deal at all which is a full hard border.
So really this Benn Law has scuppered a deal because the EU know we have to get an extension. That is why Johnson has been refusing to say what he'd do, but today he was forced by a court to admit he'd have to extend, fully scuppering any deal. Extension, followed by General Election (which probably won't sort anything out) seems to be the only outcome |
Er. No. You have entirely missed the point. The EU will be hoping that they are in a position to grant an extension, which either via aGeneral Election or directly via a second referendum will result in the UK staying in the EU. | | | |
| Brexit question on 21:21 - Oct 4 with 2326 views | Herbivore |
Johnson's proposals don't come close to an acceptable deal and the EU wouldn't accept them regardless of the Benn Act. Next question. |  |
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| Brexit question on 21:25 - Oct 4 with 2318 views | wkj |
This is a pointless what if in my opinion. Its like saying if I didn't have to have stew tonight would I rather have a Roast or Shredded Wheat. |  |
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| Brexit question on 22:02 - Oct 4 with 2261 views | Trequartista |
| Brexit question on 21:03 - Oct 4 by Tangledupin_Blue |
I don't think the EU would accept Johnson's plan as it makes an absolute mockery of the Good Friday agreement.
It is, in any case, such a bad proposal that it is difficult to take seriously. I suspect it is another of Johnson's games. He knows it is unacceptable. He may simply be trying to push the blame for lack of agreement onto the EU or he may have some other (presumably nefarious) purpose for putting forward a plan which has no chance of success. |
But isn't "No deal" even more incompatible with the Good Friday agreement as that creates a hard border immediately? | |
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| Brexit question on 22:04 - Oct 4 with 2257 views | Trequartista |
| Brexit question on 21:15 - Oct 4 by blueislander |
Er. No. You have entirely missed the point. The EU will be hoping that they are in a position to grant an extension, which either via aGeneral Election or directly via a second referendum will result in the UK staying in the EU. |
Yes I agree with your statement, but no that is nothing to do with my point. | |
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| Brexit question on 22:06 - Oct 4 with 2254 views | Trequartista |
| Brexit question on 21:21 - Oct 4 by Herbivore |
Johnson's proposals don't come close to an acceptable deal and the EU wouldn't accept them regardless of the Benn Act. Next question. |
But you are not addressing my point - would they prefer no deal to Johnson's deal and if so why? | |
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| Brexit question on 22:07 - Oct 4 with 2256 views | Trequartista |
| Brexit question on 21:25 - Oct 4 by wkj |
This is a pointless what if in my opinion. Its like saying if I didn't have to have stew tonight would I rather have a Roast or Shredded Wheat. |
I accept it is hypothetical, but not pointless, as it may go some way to understanding the government position. | |
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| Brexit question on 22:10 - Oct 4 with 2250 views | Guthrum |
| Brexit question on 22:02 - Oct 4 by Trequartista |
But isn't "No deal" even more incompatible with the Good Friday agreement as that creates a hard border immediately? |
However, accepting Johnson's deal means the EU is a complicit partner in the NI breakdown. Refusing it puts everything down to the UK Government's insistence on leaving and doing it now.
If no solution is forthcoming, apportioning of blame becomes very important. | |
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| Brexit question on 22:15 - Oct 4 with 2242 views | Guthrum |
| Brexit question on 22:07 - Oct 4 by Trequartista |
I accept it is hypothetical, but not pointless, as it may go some way to understanding the government position. |
My reading of the Gov't position is that they were trying to maintain the tattered shreds of their "game theory" we-can-walk-away hardball negotiating approach. However, even that scant veil has been pulled aside by the legal proceedings in Scotland, where Johnson has had to admit he can't avoid obeying the law. | |
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| Brexit question on 22:16 - Oct 4 with 2240 views | wkj |
| Brexit question on 22:07 - Oct 4 by Trequartista |
I accept it is hypothetical, but not pointless, as it may go some way to understanding the government position. |
Only if people are willing and able to listen to others opinions instead of combat them arbitrarily. Something that the UK is mostly incapable of at the moment. | |
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| Brexit question on 22:20 - Oct 4 with 2233 views | Guthrum |
| Brexit question on 22:15 - Oct 4 by Guthrum |
My reading of the Gov't position is that they were trying to maintain the tattered shreds of their "game theory" we-can-walk-away hardball negotiating approach. However, even that scant veil has been pulled aside by the legal proceedings in Scotland, where Johnson has had to admit he can't avoid obeying the law. |
Either that or there's some new cunning wheeze attempting to outflank his opponents. Which, given they haven't been very well thought out so far, is not promising. | |
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| Brexit question on 22:23 - Oct 4 with 2230 views | Trequartista |
| Brexit question on 22:10 - Oct 4 by Guthrum |
However, accepting Johnson's deal means the EU is a complicit partner in the NI breakdown. Refusing it puts everything down to the UK Government's insistence on leaving and doing it now.
If no solution is forthcoming, apportioning of blame becomes very important. |
Interesting and thanks for being the only one to stick to addressing my point. I wonder whether all the EU countries would put "blame" above "best outcome" though?
I originally thought the "keep no deal on the table to get a better deal" was a load of nonsense, but I can see some logic to it now as a tactic pre-Benn law, although I accept the ERG want no deal anyway. | |
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| Brexit question on 22:59 - Oct 4 with 2176 views | Herbivore |
| Brexit question on 22:06 - Oct 4 by Trequartista |
But you are not addressing my point - would they prefer no deal to Johnson's deal and if so why? |
It's not a deal, but no they would not prefer Johnson's proposals to no deal. The reasons being it does not offer adequate safeguards for the single market and does not really respect the Good Friday Agreement. | |
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| Brexit question on 23:03 - Oct 4 with 2171 views | Guthrum |
| Brexit question on 22:23 - Oct 4 by Trequartista |
Interesting and thanks for being the only one to stick to addressing my point. I wonder whether all the EU countries would put "blame" above "best outcome" though?
I originally thought the "keep no deal on the table to get a better deal" was a load of nonsense, but I can see some logic to it now as a tactic pre-Benn law, although I accept the ERG want no deal anyway. |
However, if there is no "best outcome" ...
Protecting Ireland is an absolute red line for the EU. Failure to back the former to the hilt against the demands of (effectively) an outsider would cause a crisis, damaging its entire basis of collective strength.
Plus they probably judge that, by continuing to exert pressure, conditions will come about for negotiations to be conducted by more moderate and amenable parties in the UK. All the time knowing that if we do go for the nuclear No Deal option, they can absorb more damage, have made greater preparations and can pin the blame elsewhere. | |
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| Brexit question on 00:24 - Oct 5 with 2114 views | Tangledupin_Blue |
| Brexit question on 22:02 - Oct 4 by Trequartista |
But isn't "No deal" even more incompatible with the Good Friday agreement as that creates a hard border immediately? |
Johnson's Dog's-Breakfast plan is incompatible with the GF agreement and has no chance of coming to fruition.
'No Deal' is also incompatible with the GF agreement but, if Johnson and his acolytes have their way, it appears that we the UK could renege on our solemn and binding commitment to it.
Don't know about 'more' incompatible but of the two, 'No Deal' could happen.
Perhaps this is another example of Johnson modelling himself on Trump... The lying, the serial philandering, the lying, the silly blond hair, the lying, the attempts to ignore our parliamentary protocols... now he wants to cast aside our international obligations. | |
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| Brexit question on 01:02 - Oct 5 with 2091 views | bournemouthblue |
As people already have said, Boris' deal is just May's deal repackaged with tweaks which the EU simply won't accept
I've seen a Vote Leave video attacking Corbyn and his connections to the IRA with no hint of irony in the fact it is their man Boris who is willing to risk the UK's security by simply ignoring the Northern Irish people
We all know Northern Ireland is a powder keg and we are playing with fire if we make the wrong move here
As for this parliament versus the people nonsense, it again is a ridiculous analogy
It was the Tory run Government's job to present a deal that parliament could accept
They have failed to do this again and again, unwilling to comprise and unwilling to listen
I have no sympathy for Boris, he could have been leader three years ago. He campaigned to Leave and then ran away. He has returned to save the day and deserves everything he is currently getting.
The fault lies solely at the feet of the Tories and Boris in particular.
They have made a total mess of it but want to point fingers elsewhere.
None of this was promised during the referendum of course, we were told we'd get a great deal, we were told it would be the easiest deal in history, we were told the EU would want a deal, they'd be begging us for a deal but none of this has ended up being true.
What a mess this is, don't buy the propaganda of the Hard Brexit lobby though, they have darker agendas for why they want No Deal.
All bets are off frankly where we go next but I suspect the EU has prepared far more seriously than us for all eventualities. |  |
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