| Cook’s passing remark… 00:56 - Dec 2 with 3025 views | pointofblue |
“Against Crewe it got nervy. Again it's happened tonight. We make games nervy. We give ourselves problems in games that we shouldn't give ourselves. We're not under great pressure in the game, we're not getting pinned back and clearing off the line, we're just making massive individual errors that keep costing us. Until we change the individuals then the individual errors won't change.”
That final sentence - is he suggesting another overhaul of the squad to change the individuals? Who in the squad are remnants of the pre-Cook days? Donacien and Nsiala in the ‘A’ team; Vincent-Young, Woolfenden, El Mizouni and Jackson in the ‘B’ team plus Holy and Norwood on the outside looking in.
Every other player is his signing. So we get rid of those eight, well seven as Donacien has signed a new contract, and then what? Start on Cook’s signings as he cannot set us up to reduce the individual errors, no matter who he puts out? We have one of the strongest squads in the league; out of every side in the division the last thing we should require is more churn. |  |
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| Cook’s passing remark… on 00:59 - Dec 2 with 2372 views | ArnieM |
Do we have one of the strongest squads in the league though? |  |
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| Cook’s passing remark… on 01:00 - Dec 2 with 2367 views | pointofblue |
| Cook’s passing remark… on 00:59 - Dec 2 by ArnieM |
Do we have one of the strongest squads in the league though? |
Which one’s would have said are stronger, on paper? Once we signed Walton, Morsy and Celina what was your expectation of the season? | |
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| Cook’s passing remark… on 01:01 - Dec 2 with 2361 views | N2_Blue |
The playing squad is not the problem.
It may be a bit unbalanced but that would also be fault of the manager but we have far more quality than many teams.
Cook is the problem. He has bought players that don’t work in his system. He needs marauding full backs either side yet he hasn’t really addressed that.
I’m happy with the squad but think it would be better suited to a different system and a different manager. |  |
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| Cook’s passing remark… on 01:05 - Dec 2 with 2342 views | Garv |
If players aren't good enough and he can see that, he should do something about it, whether they were his signings or not. Hladky for example looks really poor (and small).
Why do we always assume every signing was 'his' anyway? |  |
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| Cook’s passing remark… on 01:07 - Dec 2 with 2323 views | Illinoisblue |
| Cook’s passing remark… on 00:59 - Dec 2 by ArnieM |
Do we have one of the strongest squads in the league though? |
We have a collection of good (for this level and slightly above) individuals that are unwilling or unable to play as an effective team.
Again, could care less about pizza cup nonsense. But if Cook doesn’t get it right in the league, he and his merry band of scousers will be packing their bags. |  |
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| Cook’s passing remark… on 01:12 - Dec 2 with 2286 views | ArnieM |
| Cook’s passing remark… on 01:00 - Dec 2 by pointofblue |
Which one’s would have said are stronger, on paper? Once we signed Walton, Morsy and Celina what was your expectation of the season? |
To take the whole of this season for this squad to settle in …. I’ve not deviated from that . You’re looking at one transfer window out there so far . Is it realistic to expect immediate promotion ? I don’t think so | |
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| Cook’s passing remark… on 06:17 - Dec 2 with 2087 views | bluestandard |
‘Change the individuals’ could also mean continuing to work with the individuals in the squad to eradicate the errors (and therefore change them). I suspect that’s what he meant, although he won’t necessarily mind if the players debate whether he meant transfers in/out to shake out any complacency. | | | |
| Cook’s passing remark… on 06:57 - Dec 2 with 1965 views | BondiBlue |
| Cook’s passing remark… on 01:01 - Dec 2 by N2_Blue |
The playing squad is not the problem.
It may be a bit unbalanced but that would also be fault of the manager but we have far more quality than many teams.
Cook is the problem. He has bought players that don’t work in his system. He needs marauding full backs either side yet he hasn’t really addressed that.
I’m happy with the squad but think it would be better suited to a different system and a different manager. |
He hasn't addressed it? You what? He signed two marauding left backs and didn't figure he needed a right-back because he had KVY.
Problem is KVY and Penney have both been found out as crap defenders and Coulson is injured. Donacien's more than fine but needs a traditional right-footed winger in front of him because overlapping isn't his forte, but Burns is injured. We have no traditional left-footed wingers so a lot is being asked of clements to provide width on the left.
FWIW i'm surprised at the level of meltdown on here since rotherham. I get that there is a lot of frustration that has built up over the years but this season as a standalone thing hasn't been that bad. And it's nowhere near over yet. | |
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| Cook’s passing remark… on 06:58 - Dec 2 with 1955 views | BondiBlue |
| Cook’s passing remark… on 06:17 - Dec 2 by bluestandard |
‘Change the individuals’ could also mean continuing to work with the individuals in the squad to eradicate the errors (and therefore change them). I suspect that’s what he meant, although he won’t necessarily mind if the players debate whether he meant transfers in/out to shake out any complacency. |
Also how i took it. | |
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| Cook’s passing remark… on 07:18 - Dec 2 with 1832 views | Herbivore |
| Cook’s passing remark… on 00:59 - Dec 2 by ArnieM |
Do we have one of the strongest squads in the league though? |
Yes, by a mile. |  |
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| Cook’s passing remark… on 07:19 - Dec 2 with 1830 views | gazzer1999 |
| Cook’s passing remark… on 01:12 - Dec 2 by ArnieM |
To take the whole of this season for this squad to settle in …. I’ve not deviated from that . You’re looking at one transfer window out there so far . Is it realistic to expect immediate promotion ? I don’t think so |
Get over, 'one transfer window' he signed 19 in that one most managers get 2 or 3. What are you saying he should have signed 6 or 7 then another 6 or 7 in the next one? He has been a disaster from the moment he walked through the door, I was worried when he came in with journeyman Roberts who with zero coaching experience was expected to replace established coaches. Get rid now end of. |  | | |
| Cook’s passing remark… on 07:23 - Dec 2 with 1809 views | Herbivore |
| Cook’s passing remark… on 06:57 - Dec 2 by BondiBlue |
He hasn't addressed it? You what? He signed two marauding left backs and didn't figure he needed a right-back because he had KVY.
Problem is KVY and Penney have both been found out as crap defenders and Coulson is injured. Donacien's more than fine but needs a traditional right-footed winger in front of him because overlapping isn't his forte, but Burns is injured. We have no traditional left-footed wingers so a lot is being asked of clements to provide width on the left.
FWIW i'm surprised at the level of meltdown on here since rotherham. I get that there is a lot of frustration that has built up over the years but this season as a standalone thing hasn't been that bad. And it's nowhere near over yet. |
Things haven't been that bad? We're 11th in the third division, already out of the automatic promotion race less than halfway through the season, and needing sustained automatic promotion form just to scrape 6th place now. I'd say given our resources at this level that's pretty darn bad.
As for the OP, last night's post match interview read to me like it could have been copied and pasted from one of Cook's games in charge last season in places. Other parts were lifted from interviews in the opening 6 weeks.
It's interesting that the brigade who were insistent we'd gelled and turned a corner and that Cook was da bomb after we put together a brief run of decent results are now moving the goalposts again and saying it'll take a full season to get it right and we should never have expected to be going for promotion anyway. Madness. | |
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| Cook’s passing remark… on 07:27 - Dec 2 with 1788 views | Yallop |
| Cook’s passing remark… on 07:23 - Dec 2 by Herbivore |
Things haven't been that bad? We're 11th in the third division, already out of the automatic promotion race less than halfway through the season, and needing sustained automatic promotion form just to scrape 6th place now. I'd say given our resources at this level that's pretty darn bad.
As for the OP, last night's post match interview read to me like it could have been copied and pasted from one of Cook's games in charge last season in places. Other parts were lifted from interviews in the opening 6 weeks.
It's interesting that the brigade who were insistent we'd gelled and turned a corner and that Cook was da bomb after we put together a brief run of decent results are now moving the goalposts again and saying it'll take a full season to get it right and we should never have expected to be going for promotion anyway. Madness. |
We just can't turn into a club that changes manager every 9 months. We have to give managers a decent crack. [Post edited 2 Dec 2021 7:28]
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| Cook’s passing remark… on 07:34 - Dec 2 with 1735 views | gazzer1999 |
| Cook’s passing remark… on 07:27 - Dec 2 by Yallop |
We just can't turn into a club that changes manager every 9 months. We have to give managers a decent crack. [Post edited 2 Dec 2021 7:28]
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And we can't keep chucking money at it to keep scraping around in mid table in the 3rd division, repeat 3rd division. If it's clear that its not working change is needed be 9 days, 9 weeks, 9 months or 9 years. Wake up and smell the coffee. | | | |
| Cook’s passing remark… on 07:36 - Dec 2 with 1726 views | Herbivore |
| Cook’s passing remark… on 07:27 - Dec 2 by Yallop |
We just can't turn into a club that changes manager every 9 months. We have to give managers a decent crack. [Post edited 2 Dec 2021 7:28]
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Why? I would argue that had we pulled the trigger on Lambert at the end of December 2019 rather than giving him a 5 year deal there's every chance we'd have got out of League 1 by now.
You judge a manager on their performance. Cook's performance here to date has been woeful and there's little sign of that changing. 7 points from our last 6 league games, 2 wins in 8 in all competitions according to the EADT. We're meant to be getting better by this point and it's not really happening. I haven't seen anything from Cook during his time here that makes me think he can take us to where we want to go. | |
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| Cook’s passing remark… on 07:41 - Dec 2 with 1692 views | Yallop |
| Cook’s passing remark… on 07:36 - Dec 2 by Herbivore |
Why? I would argue that had we pulled the trigger on Lambert at the end of December 2019 rather than giving him a 5 year deal there's every chance we'd have got out of League 1 by now.
You judge a manager on their performance. Cook's performance here to date has been woeful and there's little sign of that changing. 7 points from our last 6 league games, 2 wins in 8 in all competitions according to the EADT. We're meant to be getting better by this point and it's not really happening. I haven't seen anything from Cook during his time here that makes me think he can take us to where we want to go. |
You are right you judge a manager on performance. Our timescales to assess that are clearly different especially when taking into account we have a complete new squad. | | | |
| Cook’s passing remark… on 07:44 - Dec 2 with 1675 views | Herbivore |
| Cook’s passing remark… on 07:41 - Dec 2 by Yallop |
You are right you judge a manager on performance. Our timescales to assess that are clearly different especially when taking into account we have a complete new squad. |
Sadly your approach often leads to season upon season of mediocrity and stagnation. | |
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| Cook’s passing remark… on 07:52 - Dec 2 with 1627 views | Yallop |
| Cook’s passing remark… on 07:44 - Dec 2 by Herbivore |
Sadly your approach often leads to season upon season of mediocrity and stagnation. |
In other cases it leads to success. You've made your views clear multiple times and I respect that but I hope you are wrong.
I've seen enough good stuff away from home to make me think we'll pull out a couple of results at Charlton and Wigan | | | |
| Cook’s passing remark… on 07:59 - Dec 2 with 1581 views | homer_123 |
| Cook’s passing remark… on 07:27 - Dec 2 by Yallop |
We just can't turn into a club that changes manager every 9 months. We have to give managers a decent crack. [Post edited 2 Dec 2021 7:28]
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I don't think anyone wants to be completely hire and fire and I don't see anyone suggesting that.
Look at what I posted the other day:
Fans Impatience by homer_123 29 Nov 2021 7:37It's interesting though isn't it.
If we look at the Club objectively:
Roy Keane - 624 days
Paul Jewell - 650 days
Mick McCarthy - 1986 days
Paul Hurst - 148 days
Paul Lambert - 855 days
Paul Cook - 270 days
Hurst is the standout as being the shortest - we certainly have never 'hired and fired' - Magilton and Royle were over 1,000 days each as well.
However, for all that period, has that approach provided success? I'm not advocating hiring and firing but I think I would be right that many of the above got way, way more time than they would have at other clubs and still didn't/ couldn't deliver.
I like Cook, as a person he seems a really good fit for the Club but on the evidence we are seeing with our own eyes, was are Lambert levels since he joined, in fact in terms of points return it might be even less than Lambert?
I want him to succeed but, taking yesterdays match there is a lot there that we have seen from Town under Hurst, Lambert and Cook that hasn't been addressed.
Do we continue to do what Town have always done with their managers and stick with Cook - if we do, evidence suggests, so far, that we'll struggle to get out of this division.
The frustration is that, for me, this squad should easily be good enough to be in and around the top 2 - but we are so far from being that team it's amazing.
We certainly don't fire managers after 9 months, never have. With the exception of Hurst all of the above had ample time (McCarthy by most fans views should have gone earlier) - should we have given any of them more time?
And the bigger question is - do you believe Cook is any more likely to deliver than any of the above if we give more time?
For me - this is the point - there is scant evidence to suggest we are getting up a head of steam or progressing in the right direction. As I posted here:
Mark Warburton by homer_123 30 Nov 2021 8:31" ...we are playing football, no doubt about it."
There are times when we play well, we can play some decent football, one, two's or see some individual skill. However, this is offset by the fact it is rarely sustained, we struggle to dominate, off the ball we are very questionable.
So, yes, it can be argued that Cook has, at times, got us to play well and some decent football but he has failed to address the underlying issues we see week in and week out since he joined. Crewe looked more of a 'team' than we did on Sunday. We still switch off during games, substitutions make us worse not better etc.
Finally, I'm still not exactly sure how Cook wants us to play - apart from the formation. I can't really describe 'how' we play football, what our approach and identity is.
Oh and by the way, we still fanny about with the ball at the back. Take a lesson from Crewe who also worked the ball from the back - and in the second half, moved the ball with pace and urgency with good off the ball work to continually slice through our midfield. Compare that to us still, many times, working the ball back and forth across our back line.
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| Cook’s passing remark… on 08:02 - Dec 2 with 1554 views | nshearman1 |
| Cook’s passing remark… on 07:23 - Dec 2 by Herbivore |
Things haven't been that bad? We're 11th in the third division, already out of the automatic promotion race less than halfway through the season, and needing sustained automatic promotion form just to scrape 6th place now. I'd say given our resources at this level that's pretty darn bad.
As for the OP, last night's post match interview read to me like it could have been copied and pasted from one of Cook's games in charge last season in places. Other parts were lifted from interviews in the opening 6 weeks.
It's interesting that the brigade who were insistent we'd gelled and turned a corner and that Cook was da bomb after we put together a brief run of decent results are now moving the goalposts again and saying it'll take a full season to get it right and we should never have expected to be going for promotion anyway. Madness. |
Presumably, given that Jeffers is an attacks coach and Roberts a former winger, Cook is relying on Kitman Craney and himself to coach the defence? There, in a nutshell, is a key problem. We spent loads of money on players but not enough on finding the right coaching team. | | | |
| Cook’s passing remark… on 08:03 - Dec 2 with 1551 views | chrismakin |
| Cook’s passing remark… on 01:05 - Dec 2 by Garv |
If players aren't good enough and he can see that, he should do something about it, whether they were his signings or not. Hladky for example looks really poor (and small).
Why do we always assume every signing was 'his' anyway? |
I've said and been moaned at for saying it. Of course. There is no way PC signed all these players.
The problem is. He should be good enough to change the system to suit the players signed. If not, resign and tell the world you're not a head coach. |  |
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| Cook’s passing remark… on 08:12 - Dec 2 with 1508 views | Yallop |
| Cook’s passing remark… on 07:59 - Dec 2 by homer_123 |
I don't think anyone wants to be completely hire and fire and I don't see anyone suggesting that.
Look at what I posted the other day:
Fans Impatience by homer_123 29 Nov 2021 7:37It's interesting though isn't it.
If we look at the Club objectively:
Roy Keane - 624 days
Paul Jewell - 650 days
Mick McCarthy - 1986 days
Paul Hurst - 148 days
Paul Lambert - 855 days
Paul Cook - 270 days
Hurst is the standout as being the shortest - we certainly have never 'hired and fired' - Magilton and Royle were over 1,000 days each as well.
However, for all that period, has that approach provided success? I'm not advocating hiring and firing but I think I would be right that many of the above got way, way more time than they would have at other clubs and still didn't/ couldn't deliver.
I like Cook, as a person he seems a really good fit for the Club but on the evidence we are seeing with our own eyes, was are Lambert levels since he joined, in fact in terms of points return it might be even less than Lambert?
I want him to succeed but, taking yesterdays match there is a lot there that we have seen from Town under Hurst, Lambert and Cook that hasn't been addressed.
Do we continue to do what Town have always done with their managers and stick with Cook - if we do, evidence suggests, so far, that we'll struggle to get out of this division.
The frustration is that, for me, this squad should easily be good enough to be in and around the top 2 - but we are so far from being that team it's amazing.
We certainly don't fire managers after 9 months, never have. With the exception of Hurst all of the above had ample time (McCarthy by most fans views should have gone earlier) - should we have given any of them more time?
And the bigger question is - do you believe Cook is any more likely to deliver than any of the above if we give more time?
For me - this is the point - there is scant evidence to suggest we are getting up a head of steam or progressing in the right direction. As I posted here:
Mark Warburton by homer_123 30 Nov 2021 8:31" ...we are playing football, no doubt about it."
There are times when we play well, we can play some decent football, one, two's or see some individual skill. However, this is offset by the fact it is rarely sustained, we struggle to dominate, off the ball we are very questionable.
So, yes, it can be argued that Cook has, at times, got us to play well and some decent football but he has failed to address the underlying issues we see week in and week out since he joined. Crewe looked more of a 'team' than we did on Sunday. We still switch off during games, substitutions make us worse not better etc.
Finally, I'm still not exactly sure how Cook wants us to play - apart from the formation. I can't really describe 'how' we play football, what our approach and identity is.
Oh and by the way, we still fanny about with the ball at the back. Take a lesson from Crewe who also worked the ball from the back - and in the second half, moved the ball with pace and urgency with good off the ball work to continually slice through our midfield. Compare that to us still, many times, working the ball back and forth across our back line.
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On your penultimate point I have seen glimpses that tell me we can be onto something good. You have to be fair and write off August but since then I have seen us dominate and dictate games that we hadn't seen under recent regimes.
But don't get me wrong Cook isn't some sort of god in my eyes, he's made big mistakes for me the biggest was breaking up Chaplin/Bonne partnership in the middle of a hot streak. There's obviously others but I still believe a bit of loyalty to Cook will reap us greater rewards than another reset. [Post edited 2 Dec 2021 8:13]
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| Cook’s passing remark… on 08:17 - Dec 2 with 1457 views | homer_123 |
| Cook’s passing remark… on 08:12 - Dec 2 by Yallop |
On your penultimate point I have seen glimpses that tell me we can be onto something good. You have to be fair and write off August but since then I have seen us dominate and dictate games that we hadn't seen under recent regimes.
But don't get me wrong Cook isn't some sort of god in my eyes, he's made big mistakes for me the biggest was breaking up Chaplin/Bonne partnership in the middle of a hot streak. There's obviously others but I still believe a bit of loyalty to Cook will reap us greater rewards than another reset. [Post edited 2 Dec 2021 8:13]
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"...but I still believe a bit of loyalty to Cook will reap us greater rewards than another reset."
Respect your view Yallop - not one I share for the reasons posted. I'd love him to succeed as I have said numerous times.
I'm not sure I've seen games that we've truly dominated, maybe we have away and I've missed them? My concern is that they aren't the norm or even remotely regular - in fact, we are somewhat regressing at the moment - right at the point where we should be pushing on. [Post edited 2 Dec 2021 8:17]
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| Cook’s passing remark… on 10:17 - Dec 2 with 1273 views | Garv |
| Cook’s passing remark… on 08:03 - Dec 2 by chrismakin |
I've said and been moaned at for saying it. Of course. There is no way PC signed all these players.
The problem is. He should be good enough to change the system to suit the players signed. If not, resign and tell the world you're not a head coach. |
Why would it be news that he's not a head coach? https://www.itfc.co.uk/teams/staff/Manager/paul-cook/ | |
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| Cook’s passing remark… on 10:35 - Dec 2 with 1110 views | Tangledupin_Blue |
We need to change 1 individual. |  |
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