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Is it just me? 19:51 - Jun 10 with 13383 viewsSpruceMoose

Or does anyone else find the thought of Boris Johnson being our PM, something we can never erase from our history books, utterly and thoroughly depressing?

I mean, ffs, what's the point of anything if that sh!tstain is our representative?

Britain's fall to complete laughing stock will be complete should this come to pass.

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Is it just me? on 16:01 - Jun 11 with 533 viewsitfcjoe

Is it just me? on 15:44 - Jun 11 by C_HealyIsAPleasure

This sums up a lot of my thoughts - was very much a remainer but the door has very much been opened and we’re too far down the tracks to stop now, IMO

I don’t agree that it has to be full Brexit however I do think we should be currently putting our eggs in the basket of no deal and preparing for that eventuality. Not because it’s the best outcome (clearly it isn’t) however it does at least mean we have a plan if forced to go down that road, and will strengthen our negotiating position with the EU - and probably should have been our approach from the start


The problem is the Brexiteers have massively overplayed their hand, May's deal was a lot 'Harder' a Brexit than was being spoken about by the key figures in the Leave campaign.

Nothing but a No Deal Brexit will satisfy them now - realistically it is probably already at the stage where it will need to be a No Deal Brexit, or to Remain - there is no Middle Ground anymore.

Personally I'd upset the Leavers rather than the Remainers because that is best for the country at this moment in time

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Is it just me? on 16:05 - Jun 11 with 525 viewsgordon

Is it just me? on 16:01 - Jun 11 by itfcjoe

The problem is the Brexiteers have massively overplayed their hand, May's deal was a lot 'Harder' a Brexit than was being spoken about by the key figures in the Leave campaign.

Nothing but a No Deal Brexit will satisfy them now - realistically it is probably already at the stage where it will need to be a No Deal Brexit, or to Remain - there is no Middle Ground anymore.

Personally I'd upset the Leavers rather than the Remainers because that is best for the country at this moment in time


The lies that are being told are just going more or less unchallenged by the media - for one example Raab was saying that the possibility of no-deal was scaremongering and part of project fear in the referendum campaign. Now he says it's what people voted for - it's breathtaking.
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Is it just me? on 16:13 - Jun 11 with 506 viewsitfcjoe

Is it just me? on 16:05 - Jun 11 by gordon

The lies that are being told are just going more or less unchallenged by the media - for one example Raab was saying that the possibility of no-deal was scaremongering and part of project fear in the referendum campaign. Now he says it's what people voted for - it's breathtaking.


It's incredible, people can literally be shown videos of these lies being told and still dismiss it.

Why is there not an ethics committee for abuse of position in public office? How can Boris Johnson claim not to have mentioned Turkey during referendum campaign when there is video evidence of it?

This 'fake news' populism will be looked back upon in a few decades by history students and no one will believe how stupid we are - feels like we are living through a monumental moment in history and it's so obvious what is being done but it can't be stopped.

We need the Queen to step up and save us!

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Is it just me? on 16:23 - Jun 11 with 491 viewsSteve_M

Is it just me? on 16:01 - Jun 11 by itfcjoe

The problem is the Brexiteers have massively overplayed their hand, May's deal was a lot 'Harder' a Brexit than was being spoken about by the key figures in the Leave campaign.

Nothing but a No Deal Brexit will satisfy them now - realistically it is probably already at the stage where it will need to be a No Deal Brexit, or to Remain - there is no Middle Ground anymore.

Personally I'd upset the Leavers rather than the Remainers because that is best for the country at this moment in time


And if this all ends in a No Deal Brexit then the likelihood of those advocating it taking responsibility for it is infinitesimal. It will be everyone else's fault because there is no way of satisfying people who expect unicorns.

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Is it just me? on 16:24 - Jun 11 with 488 viewsjimmyvet

Is it just me? on 08:39 - Jun 11 by BlueBadger

The whole thing is a 'Keane Vs Hurst' question. There's some superficial fine margins to be had, but in reality it's like asking if you'd rather treading a dog turd with your left foot or your right.


Great analysis!
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Is it just me? on 16:25 - Jun 11 with 488 viewsGlasgowBlue

Is it just me? on 14:11 - Jun 11 by footers

Well, that's the 'I swallow and spout cheap, ridiculous characterisations without thinking' bingo card marked off.

If you read Labour's manifesto you might find some stuff in there that tackles many domestic issues. Not sure there's a whole lot on Syria and Palestine in there though :(

And could people stop using 'university educated' as some sort of insult? It's ridiculous and frankly insulting to those of us who went to uni and worked hard for our degrees.

Thanks


At last year's Labour party conference, constituency parties put Palestine ahead of Brexit and the NHS in their choice of issues to be discussed. This was the conference hall during the Palestine debate.



No wonder people in Newcastle and Sunderland believe the Labour party care more about the middle east than the north east.
[Post edited 11 Jun 16:26]

"History is made, sadly, by people who are bystanders and do nothing. Their inaction is an excuse and a cover for intolerance".
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Is it just me? on 16:29 - Jun 11 with 477 viewsGlasgowBlue

Is it just me? on 14:20 - Jun 11 by SpruceMoose

I may be wrong on this, but I thought Labour's manifesto was staunchly anti austerity?


You are wrong on this

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/20/labour-manifesto-keep-planned-t

Meet the new boss.....
[Post edited 11 Jun 16:29]

"History is made, sadly, by people who are bystanders and do nothing. Their inaction is an excuse and a cover for intolerance".
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Is it just me? on 16:31 - Jun 11 with 469 viewsSpruceMoose

Is it just me? on 16:29 - Jun 11 by GlasgowBlue

You are wrong on this

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/20/labour-manifesto-keep-planned-t

Meet the new boss.....
[Post edited 11 Jun 16:29]


Ah I see. I guess the manifest lets me down. Got anything more recent that two years ago though?

Anyway, how's life? You mentioned a new project the other day? What's that? New business?

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Is it just me? on 16:33 - Jun 11 with 460 viewsGlasgowBlue

Is it just me? on 12:17 - Jun 11 by itfcjoe

Of course it isn't, they take the anti-US/UK view on every major conflict or disagreement - Milne is clearly a Stalinist which is pro-Russia and the East.

These facts might be inconvenient but look into the likes of Milne and their views


Indeed

https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/10/03/jeremy-corbyn-has-a-soft-spot-for-extremist

"History is made, sadly, by people who are bystanders and do nothing. Their inaction is an excuse and a cover for intolerance".
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Is it just me? on 16:38 - Jun 11 with 443 viewsC_HealyIsAPleasure

Is it just me? on 16:00 - Jun 11 by gordon

No-deal would put us in a the weakest negotiating position of any country in the world - we'll have a few skeletal existing trade arrangements, and we'll need to do deals as quickly as possible for political reasons and to protect domestic businesses. We will be forced to make invidious trade-offs between different sector of the UK economy, and our politicians will have to dress it all up as something positive.

However, it's probably necessary now - people need to realise how ridiculous and vacuous the promises that were made are, and this is the only way, in my opinion.


By taking no deal off the table we completely decimated any negotiating position with the EU - they can simply sit on their offer of a deal safe in the knowledge our only options are to take it or remain. If we were seriously preparing for no deal then there would be much more impetus to negotiate - as it will benefit the EU too to have a deal

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Is it just me? on 16:39 - Jun 11 with 442 viewsGlasgowBlue

Is it just me? on 16:31 - Jun 11 by SpruceMoose

Ah I see. I guess the manifest lets me down. Got anything more recent that two years ago though?

Anyway, how's life? You mentioned a new project the other day? What's that? New business?


Nope. That's their most recent manifesto.

I'm a busy boy at the moment thanks. New business taking every waking hour of my time so am Just popping in on here whilst taking a fifteen minute break.

How'S life in the USA? My sixteen year old daughters have a school trip to Washington and New York in two weeks time.

"History is made, sadly, by people who are bystanders and do nothing. Their inaction is an excuse and a cover for intolerance".
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Is it just me? on 16:39 - Jun 11 with 437 viewsfooters

Is it just me? on 16:25 - Jun 11 by GlasgowBlue

At last year's Labour party conference, constituency parties put Palestine ahead of Brexit and the NHS in their choice of issues to be discussed. This was the conference hall during the Palestine debate.



No wonder people in Newcastle and Sunderland believe the Labour party care more about the middle east than the north east.
[Post edited 11 Jun 16:26]


Wow. One meeting at conference on Palestine. That's me convinced.

Of course not being a member of a party anymore means you can just snipe rather than make any positive cases for anything. That must be easy.

"Yeah well, those kids probably get stickers for good behaviour, not our fault that Phil aint dishing out Paninis is it"
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Is it just me? on 16:40 - Jun 11 with 434 viewsC_HealyIsAPleasure

Is it just me? on 16:01 - Jun 11 by itfcjoe

The problem is the Brexiteers have massively overplayed their hand, May's deal was a lot 'Harder' a Brexit than was being spoken about by the key figures in the Leave campaign.

Nothing but a No Deal Brexit will satisfy them now - realistically it is probably already at the stage where it will need to be a No Deal Brexit, or to Remain - there is no Middle Ground anymore.

Personally I'd upset the Leavers rather than the Remainers because that is best for the country at this moment in time


Some will be upset but a deal that sees most of the key points (and crucially freedom of movement) will ultimately be accepted - I don’t buy that it’s simply no deal or remain, although it doesn’t look like there are much other options from the position May has negotiated us into

I’m not sure on your final paragraph either - as Gordon has alluded I think the consequences of not leaving could be much more far reaching than just risking some economic fallout

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Is it just me? on 16:42 - Jun 11 with 426 viewsjimmyvet

Is it just me? on 15:27 - Jun 11 by footers

Admire your determination, Joe, but I'm just tired of it now, as you can probably tell. Politically we're now in the hands of a Tory Brexiteer and I fear the worst is going to happen with no chance to change course.


Footers we are all fed up with it. The parliament has had 3 years to deal with it and have not.

I know who you will blame and I tend to agree with you but that aside they all voted to trigger Brexit as MPs and haven’t. So as a remainer now I think we should have no deal firmly on the table because unless it is, the commons will have no incentive at all to deliver a deal and we must and move on.

Just my opinion of course.
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Is it just me? on 16:45 - Jun 11 with 418 viewsDarth_Koont

Is it just me? on 16:05 - Jun 11 by gordon

The lies that are being told are just going more or less unchallenged by the media - for one example Raab was saying that the possibility of no-deal was scaremongering and part of project fear in the referendum campaign. Now he says it's what people voted for - it's breathtaking.


Indeed. As bad as our politicians are, they've been enabled by our media that is either far too passive or rabidly agenda-driven. A media worthy of the name should be all over this and other crap surrounding Brexit.

It's an utter mess.
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Is it just me? on 16:48 - Jun 11 with 410 viewsDarth_Koont

Is it just me? on 16:40 - Jun 11 by C_HealyIsAPleasure

Some will be upset but a deal that sees most of the key points (and crucially freedom of movement) will ultimately be accepted - I don’t buy that it’s simply no deal or remain, although it doesn’t look like there are much other options from the position May has negotiated us into

I’m not sure on your final paragraph either - as Gordon has alluded I think the consequences of not leaving could be much more far reaching than just risking some economic fallout


Who cares? They'll find another way to feck up the country because they don't want facts and ultimately they don't care about anything much except their own feelings and opinions.

Feck 'em. It's time to develop some British backbone and principles and do what is really right.
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Is it just me? on 16:51 - Jun 11 with 397 viewsGlasgowBlue

Is it just me? on 16:39 - Jun 11 by footers

Wow. One meeting at conference on Palestine. That's me convinced.

Of course not being a member of a party anymore means you can just snipe rather than make any positive cases for anything. That must be easy.


what part of "put Palestine ahead of Brexit and the NHS in their choice of issues to be discussed" did you struggle to understand?

"History is made, sadly, by people who are bystanders and do nothing. Their inaction is an excuse and a cover for intolerance".
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Is it just me? on 16:56 - Jun 11 with 377 viewsfooters

Is it just me? on 16:51 - Jun 11 by GlasgowBlue

what part of "put Palestine ahead of Brexit and the NHS in their choice of issues to be discussed" did you struggle to understand?




Oh dear, GB- calm down! Maybe it was a special event on Palestine when Brexit and the NHS are day-to-day issues which are regularly discussed?

Oh no, hang about, changed my mind. It's a damascene conversion! The mendacious power-brokers of the Labour party are secretly in league with the fedayeen and plan to sell our NHS down the river. Should've spotted that one.

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Is it just me? on 16:59 - Jun 11 with 368 viewsSteve_M

Is it just me? on 16:38 - Jun 11 by C_HealyIsAPleasure

By taking no deal off the table we completely decimated any negotiating position with the EU - they can simply sit on their offer of a deal safe in the knowledge our only options are to take it or remain. If we were seriously preparing for no deal then there would be much more impetus to negotiate - as it will benefit the EU too to have a deal


How is an end result that leaves the UK in a far worse position than the rest of the EU a negotiating advantage? Yes, No Deal is bad for the EU but it would be far worse for the UK.

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Is it just me? on 17:01 - Jun 11 with 357 viewsC_HealyIsAPleasure

Is it just me? on 16:48 - Jun 11 by Darth_Koont

Who cares? They'll find another way to feck up the country because they don't want facts and ultimately they don't care about anything much except their own feelings and opinions.

Feck 'em. It's time to develop some British backbone and principles and do what is really right.


Not sure which bit your responding to

If it’s the first bit I agree - perhaps wasn’t clear but if we do end up doing a deal then those that won’t be happy with it will ultimately end up having to accept it

If it’s the second bit, then I think the possible consequences really do have to be considered, I’m afraid

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Is it just me? on 17:04 - Jun 11 with 347 viewsSpruceMoose

Is it just me? on 16:39 - Jun 11 by GlasgowBlue

Nope. That's their most recent manifesto.

I'm a busy boy at the moment thanks. New business taking every waking hour of my time so am Just popping in on here whilst taking a fifteen minute break.

How'S life in the USA? My sixteen year old daughters have a school trip to Washington and New York in two weeks time.


Things are good thanks. Other than a helicopter landing on a nearby building yesterday. Weather is heating up, bracing for three months of disgusting humidity where the city smells like hot piss and rubbish. Should be warmed up nicely for your daughters trip!

What kind of stuff will their school have them doing over here? If they are the museum types (are any 16 year olds? I don't know any) then there are a couple of excellent shows on at the moment.

What kind of area is your business operating in, if you don't mind revealing that?
[Post edited 11 Jun 17:04]

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Is it just me? on 17:05 - Jun 11 with 345 viewsDarth_Koont

Is it just me? on 16:51 - Jun 11 by GlasgowBlue

what part of "put Palestine ahead of Brexit and the NHS in their choice of issues to be discussed" did you struggle to understand?


http://labourconference.org/#timetable.html

No mention of Palestine on the planned timetable. Brexit and Healthcare were already on there so maybe you got confused about the choice to add in Palestine as an extra?
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Is it just me? on 17:05 - Jun 11 with 344 viewsGlasgowBlue

Is it just me? on 16:56 - Jun 11 by footers



Oh dear, GB- calm down! Maybe it was a special event on Palestine when Brexit and the NHS are day-to-day issues which are regularly discussed?

Oh no, hang about, changed my mind. It's a damascene conversion! The mendacious power-brokers of the Labour party are secretly in league with the fedayeen and plan to sell our NHS down the river. Should've spotted that one.


what gives you the impression that I am anything but calm?

Joe's original post was about people's perception of Labour under Corbyn. If you don't believe that putting Palestine above the NHS and Brexit as a topic for discussion at the conference of the party who are supposed to be the government in waiting, gives the impression to disillusioned northern working class voters that Labour cares more about the middle east than it does about the north east then you are a symptom of how out of touch London Labour are with the rest of the country.

Good! If enough people in Labour think like you then Bolsover, Hartlepool etc are lost and Corbyn won't ever reside in 10 Downing Street.

"History is made, sadly, by people who are bystanders and do nothing. Their inaction is an excuse and a cover for intolerance".
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Is it just me? on 17:06 - Jun 11 with 342 viewsGlasgowBlue

Is it just me? on 17:04 - Jun 11 by SpruceMoose

Things are good thanks. Other than a helicopter landing on a nearby building yesterday. Weather is heating up, bracing for three months of disgusting humidity where the city smells like hot piss and rubbish. Should be warmed up nicely for your daughters trip!

What kind of stuff will their school have them doing over here? If they are the museum types (are any 16 year olds? I don't know any) then there are a couple of excellent shows on at the moment.

What kind of area is your business operating in, if you don't mind revealing that?
[Post edited 11 Jun 17:04]


I'm going away from the keyboard for a while. I'll drop you a pm later or tomorrow.

"History is made, sadly, by people who are bystanders and do nothing. Their inaction is an excuse and a cover for intolerance".
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Is it just me? on 17:06 - Jun 11 with 339 viewsSpruceMoose

Is it just me? on 16:42 - Jun 11 by jimmyvet

Footers we are all fed up with it. The parliament has had 3 years to deal with it and have not.

I know who you will blame and I tend to agree with you but that aside they all voted to trigger Brexit as MPs and haven’t. So as a remainer now I think we should have no deal firmly on the table because unless it is, the commons will have no incentive at all to deliver a deal and we must and move on.

Just my opinion of course.


Whenever I read posts like this I can't help but suspect that the poster wasn't ever a Remainer. The Remain world view and the No Deal Brexit world view are so far apart as to be incompatible IMO.

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