| Evans backing question..... 19:48 - Jan 13 with 5166 views | BlueBertie |
Apologies if this has been spoken about before but why do some on here trot out the opinion that we should be grateful for him putting money into our club, £5 million or so just to keep us afloat each year and that somehow we should be grateful. Surely this is complete nonsense as the reason he's having to is 100% down to his miss-management of the club. A fair chunk of the debt figure banded about doesn't exist surely. I run my own business and if I have problems which are down to me, I don't ask my customers to pay for these costs? |  | | |  |
| Evans backing question..... on 19:53 - Jan 13 with 3044 views | footers |
Players still cost money and wages need to be paid, whether he is mismanaging the Club or not. This accounts for the ~£6m p/a shortfall in finances which Evans had to fill in the Championship.
"A fair chunk of the debt figure banded about doesn't exist surely."
Yes, it does.
Christ. |  |
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| Evans backing question..... on 20:00 - Jan 13 with 3007 views | jayessess |
I don't think I've heard anyone express gratitude per se, just an acknowledgement that this is the reality of things. |  |
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| Evans backing question..... on 20:05 - Jan 13 with 2993 views | jeera |
It's simply the reality of profit versus losses.
As already pointed out here, and a million times before, paying wages, and the daily expenditures of running a football club at this level, is horribly expensive.
As a business owner, you should have some understanding of this, although of course the usual rules do not apply here. Many clubs run at a loss.
Hence the average bods, like us, cannot just step up and buy one. [Post edited 13 Jan 2021 20:06]
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| Evans backing question..... on 20:06 - Jan 13 with 2985 views | BlueBertie |
| Evans backing question..... on 19:53 - Jan 13 by footers |
Players still cost money and wages need to be paid, whether he is mismanaging the Club or not. This accounts for the ~£6m p/a shortfall in finances which Evans had to fill in the Championship.
"A fair chunk of the debt figure banded about doesn't exist surely."
Yes, it does.
Christ. |
His debt, not ours? | | | |
| Evans backing question..... on 20:08 - Jan 13 with 2976 views | jeera |
| Evans backing question..... on 20:06 - Jan 13 by BlueBertie |
His debt, not ours? |
That's not what you said though is it?
It's only his because he says so.
It's the club's debt really, but does that matter right now? The club can't repay it, and no one is about to offer to buy it. | |
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| Evans backing question..... on 20:24 - Jan 13 with 2932 views | Swansea_Blue |
That’s largely how I see it. Failed signings, paying managers and players off, not unearthing many gems to sell on, dwindling attendances, no cup run bonuses, etc., all add to the costs of running the club. There’s been a lot of waste and not maximising potential. |  |
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| Evans backing question..... on 20:26 - Jan 13 with 2925 views | BlueBertie |
| Evans backing question..... on 20:08 - Jan 13 by jeera |
That's not what you said though is it?
It's only his because he says so.
It's the club's debt really, but does that matter right now? The club can't repay it, and no one is about to offer to buy it. |
Yes sorry my bad. I get all that but as a Director albeit fairly new to running my company, if I drop a clanger at work or continued to make bad decisions and the company was failing as a result, I'd then put money into the company to rectify my bad management. I can say the company then owes me but that wouldn't as such be true. I can say it does but not the case. | | | |
| Evans backing question..... on 20:30 - Jan 13 with 2913 views | PhilTWTD |
| Evans backing question..... on 20:26 - Jan 13 by BlueBertie |
Yes sorry my bad. I get all that but as a Director albeit fairly new to running my company, if I drop a clanger at work or continued to make bad decisions and the company was failing as a result, I'd then put money into the company to rectify my bad management. I can say the company then owes me but that wouldn't as such be true. I can say it does but not the case. |
Club costs more to run every year than it generates. ME covers the shortfall as loans. Realistically, he's never going to get the money back - barring a spell in the Premier League - so the debt is largely an accounting exercise. |  | | |
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| Evans backing question..... on 20:44 - Jan 13 with 2845 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Evans backing question..... on 20:26 - Jan 13 by BlueBertie |
Yes sorry my bad. I get all that but as a Director albeit fairly new to running my company, if I drop a clanger at work or continued to make bad decisions and the company was failing as a result, I'd then put money into the company to rectify my bad management. I can say the company then owes me but that wouldn't as such be true. I can say it does but not the case. |
Except, ultimately, you wouldn't. If you run your company well, you keep costs down and are able to supply goods competitively and your company will thrive. Unless you are a millionaire who has set up your business as a hobby, there is a very tangible limit on how much you personally will spend on the business should you run it badly. You might be able to borrow money for a while to help keep it afloat. Should you only mismanage it slightly, you may be able to increase your prices to keep afloat (which is you getting your customers to pay for your mistakes).
Should you fail in both those options you are left with the final option which is find a buyer or go into administration. Evans funding the club has prevented the last of those options. Should he fail to find a buyer and choose the other option that is the club in administration. It doesn't really suit Evans for that to happen but there could come a point at which he decides paying another £5M after the last one is £5M more than he is prepared to and he cuts his losses with the administration route. I am sure the further we drop and the less saleable the club becomes, the more that option becomes possible.
I hate the gradual decline Evans has overseen. However, I am grateful that his money has meant it is no steeper. I do wish a new owner would come in and run it far more successfully but I would rather that was from this footing than struggling in League 2 (as I would imagine administration would put us there). |  |
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| Evans backing question..... on 20:47 - Jan 13 with 2837 views | stiff_talking |
| Evans backing question..... on 20:44 - Jan 13 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Except, ultimately, you wouldn't. If you run your company well, you keep costs down and are able to supply goods competitively and your company will thrive. Unless you are a millionaire who has set up your business as a hobby, there is a very tangible limit on how much you personally will spend on the business should you run it badly. You might be able to borrow money for a while to help keep it afloat. Should you only mismanage it slightly, you may be able to increase your prices to keep afloat (which is you getting your customers to pay for your mistakes).
Should you fail in both those options you are left with the final option which is find a buyer or go into administration. Evans funding the club has prevented the last of those options. Should he fail to find a buyer and choose the other option that is the club in administration. It doesn't really suit Evans for that to happen but there could come a point at which he decides paying another £5M after the last one is £5M more than he is prepared to and he cuts his losses with the administration route. I am sure the further we drop and the less saleable the club becomes, the more that option becomes possible.
I hate the gradual decline Evans has overseen. However, I am grateful that his money has meant it is no steeper. I do wish a new owner would come in and run it far more successfully but I would rather that was from this footing than struggling in League 2 (as I would imagine administration would put us there). |
If we stay in League One 6 more months his annual put in could be zero
With a 2.5 million spending limit he should make profit
Hence - why he is backing Lambo. He knows we are going nowhere with him | | | |
| Evans backing question..... on 20:52 - Jan 13 with 2820 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Evans backing question..... on 20:47 - Jan 13 by stiff_talking |
If we stay in League One 6 more months his annual put in could be zero
With a 2.5 million spending limit he should make profit
Hence - why he is backing Lambo. He knows we are going nowhere with him |
I think I get your point but the point of the wage cap is to prevent clubs spending beyond their means. I think the club will have a lot of cost cutting beyond releasing players to get there.
I think Stoke, Sheffield United and Burnley are likely to be better financial propositions than Sunderland and Portsmouth.
A properly run club that is successful on the pitch is surely the aim. | |
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| Evans backing question..... on 21:03 - Jan 13 with 2811 views | casanovacrow |
Does anyone on here know if, or how much of the shortfall each year is a result of the ever compounding interest on the debt owed to Evans himself? |  | | |
| Evans backing question..... on 21:07 - Jan 13 with 2774 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Evans backing question..... on 21:03 - Jan 13 by casanovacrow |
Does anyone on here know if, or how much of the shortfall each year is a result of the ever compounding interest on the debt owed to Evans himself? |
Ah, so he isn't putting anything in and is actually taking money out of the club in interest?
I may be wrong but I believe there are actual running costs that are costing him millions of pounds rather than it being a paper exercise of him shifting a fictional debt to the club.
A trained accountant can probably see enough to be able to tell you whether the quoted £5M is accurate. | |
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| Evans backing question..... on 21:08 - Jan 13 with 2768 views | BlueBertie |
| Evans backing question..... on 20:44 - Jan 13 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Except, ultimately, you wouldn't. If you run your company well, you keep costs down and are able to supply goods competitively and your company will thrive. Unless you are a millionaire who has set up your business as a hobby, there is a very tangible limit on how much you personally will spend on the business should you run it badly. You might be able to borrow money for a while to help keep it afloat. Should you only mismanage it slightly, you may be able to increase your prices to keep afloat (which is you getting your customers to pay for your mistakes).
Should you fail in both those options you are left with the final option which is find a buyer or go into administration. Evans funding the club has prevented the last of those options. Should he fail to find a buyer and choose the other option that is the club in administration. It doesn't really suit Evans for that to happen but there could come a point at which he decides paying another £5M after the last one is £5M more than he is prepared to and he cuts his losses with the administration route. I am sure the further we drop and the less saleable the club becomes, the more that option becomes possible.
I hate the gradual decline Evans has overseen. However, I am grateful that his money has meant it is no steeper. I do wish a new owner would come in and run it far more successfully but I would rather that was from this footing than struggling in League 2 (as I would imagine administration would put us there). |
Thanks for that response. It's just the sentiment we should feel grateful to someone putting money into the club when it's solely his doing in the first place that we are in a position of needing it. Agreed about the other option of having no backing and it's potential consequences. Not grateful to him though, far from it. | | | |
| Evans backing question..... on 21:09 - Jan 13 with 2781 views | PhilTWTD |
| Evans backing question..... on 21:03 - Jan 13 by casanovacrow |
Does anyone on here know if, or how much of the shortfall each year is a result of the ever compounding interest on the debt owed to Evans himself? |
Interest on the debt is irrelevant to the shortfall. The debt increases on paper without anything ever being paid off. | | | |
| Evans backing question..... on 21:09 - Jan 13 with 2758 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Evans backing question..... on 21:08 - Jan 13 by BlueBertie |
Thanks for that response. It's just the sentiment we should feel grateful to someone putting money into the club when it's solely his doing in the first place that we are in a position of needing it. Agreed about the other option of having no backing and it's potential consequences. Not grateful to him though, far from it. |
You would rather we were in administration? | |
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| Evans backing question..... on 21:11 - Jan 13 with 2760 views | PhilTWTD |
| Evans backing question..... on 21:08 - Jan 13 by BlueBertie |
Thanks for that response. It's just the sentiment we should feel grateful to someone putting money into the club when it's solely his doing in the first place that we are in a position of needing it. Agreed about the other option of having no backing and it's potential consequences. Not grateful to him though, far from it. |
It's not solely ME's fault that the club needs loans every year, that's just the nature of the game at the levels we've been at; wages outstrip income. Other clubs are in similar positions. | | | |
| Evans backing question..... on 21:11 - Jan 13 with 2751 views | BlueBertie |
| Evans backing question..... on 21:09 - Jan 13 by PhilTWTD |
Interest on the debt is irrelevant to the shortfall. The debt increases on paper without anything ever being paid off. |
Roughly how much was the actual debt when he first came and how much it is now? | | | |
| Evans backing question..... on 21:14 - Jan 13 with 2732 views | casanovacrow |
| Evans backing question..... on 21:07 - Jan 13 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Ah, so he isn't putting anything in and is actually taking money out of the club in interest?
I may be wrong but I believe there are actual running costs that are costing him millions of pounds rather than it being a paper exercise of him shifting a fictional debt to the club.
A trained accountant can probably see enough to be able to tell you whether the quoted £5M is accurate. |
Looking at the debt I don't think he's taking it out.
I think he's keeping the debt there and letting it grow. Probably at a very nice interest rate. I'm not even implying he expects to get it back, just that the interest on debt will no doubt cause us to be much less competitive if he wants to keep losses to a minimum | | | |
| Evans backing question..... on 21:16 - Jan 13 with 2717 views | BlueBertie |
| Evans backing question..... on 21:09 - Jan 13 by Nthsuffolkblue |
You would rather we were in administration? |
No of course not, I was agreeing that the option of none of his money coming in would be terrible. I'm just against being grateful to him for failing us this far, if that makes sense. | | | |
| Evans backing question..... on 21:17 - Jan 13 with 2720 views | casanovacrow |
| Evans backing question..... on 21:09 - Jan 13 by PhilTWTD |
Interest on the debt is irrelevant to the shortfall. The debt increases on paper without anything ever being paid off. |
It's not irrelevant if he's taking the compounded debt into account as an operating cost.
Surely if he stops the interest on the debt owed to him or even writes some of it off (fat chance) then the interest payments will be less each year and that can either pay down the existing debt or be invested into the club instead? [Post edited 13 Jan 2021 21:27]
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| Evans backing question..... on 21:35 - Jan 13 with 2666 views | jeera |
| Evans backing question..... on 21:17 - Jan 13 by casanovacrow |
It's not irrelevant if he's taking the compounded debt into account as an operating cost.
Surely if he stops the interest on the debt owed to him or even writes some of it off (fat chance) then the interest payments will be less each year and that can either pay down the existing debt or be invested into the club instead? [Post edited 13 Jan 2021 21:27]
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What interest?
He hasn't charged interest for years has he? | |
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| Evans backing question..... on 21:38 - Jan 13 with 2665 views | casanovacrow |
| Evans backing question..... on 21:35 - Jan 13 by jeera |
What interest?
He hasn't charged interest for years has he? |
That's kind of what I'm asking.
Is he not charging interest now or is he compounding it every year as he isn't withdrawing it? | | | |
| Evans backing question..... on 21:41 - Jan 13 with 2657 views | PhilTWTD |
| Evans backing question..... on 21:17 - Jan 13 by casanovacrow |
It's not irrelevant if he's taking the compounded debt into account as an operating cost.
Surely if he stops the interest on the debt owed to him or even writes some of it off (fat chance) then the interest payments will be less each year and that can either pay down the existing debt or be invested into the club instead? [Post edited 13 Jan 2021 21:27]
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There are no interest payments, just added to the balance sheet. | | | |
| Evans backing question..... on 21:42 - Jan 13 with 2656 views | PhilTWTD |
| Evans backing question..... on 21:38 - Jan 13 by casanovacrow |
That's kind of what I'm asking.
Is he not charging interest now or is he compounding it every year as he isn't withdrawing it? |
There's been no interest on any of the new loans since about 2012, but think you're right that interest compounds from the earlier loans.
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