| The EU Procurement Scheme for Ventilators 15:09 - Apr 16 with 3653 views | Tommyparker |
The European Union is using the combined power of it's members states to buy new machines.
The UK was invited to join this scheme in February but did not
How many being built ? Unknown.
Are they ready? No. The EU Procurement process is still ongoing and leaked documents have said that delivery could take anything from 10 weeks to a year.
As reported in The Guardian by Rob Davies Tuesday 14 April. |  | | |  |
| The EU Procurement Scheme for Ventilators on 15:14 - Apr 16 with 2437 views | JakeITFC |
And our bananas are curvier. |  | | |
| The EU Procurement Scheme for Ventilators on 15:17 - Apr 16 with 2426 views | StokieBlue |
| The EU Procurement Scheme for Ventilators on 15:14 - Apr 16 by JakeITFC |
And our bananas are curvier. |
I think his point is that whilst we should have joined it and that was a mistake that we didn't it's also not the silver bullet which some are holding it up to be.
SB |  | | |
| The EU Procurement Scheme for Ventilators on 15:27 - Apr 16 with 2413 views | Durovigutum |
If you've ever worked with or around the OJEU rules then you know we're better off outside of it. I'd now decline a job if the prospective employer applied these rules. |  | | |
| The EU Procurement Scheme for Ventilators on 15:27 - Apr 16 with 2410 views | Lord_Lucan |
| The EU Procurement Scheme for Ventilators on 15:17 - Apr 16 by StokieBlue |
I think his point is that whilst we should have joined it and that was a mistake that we didn't it's also not the silver bullet which some are holding it up to be.
SB |
But it's being covered in another thread and it's not dissimilar in tone to those that The Loonies keep posting in an attempt at one upmanship.
I think what can be learnt from this is that people haven't a clue what is going on behind the scenes and rather than turn this board into more of an asylum for the disaffected it's probably better to take a deep breath and go and have another w4nk. [Post edited 16 Apr 2020 15:28]
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| The EU Procurement Scheme for Ventilators on 15:49 - Apr 16 with 2358 views | JakeITFC |
| The EU Procurement Scheme for Ventilators on 15:17 - Apr 16 by StokieBlue |
I think his point is that whilst we should have joined it and that was a mistake that we didn't it's also not the silver bullet which some are holding it up to be.
SB |
It’s my opinion that it’s pretty shiit if someone dies from this whether they are in the UK, Europe or anywhere else on earth.
State cheerleading and nationalist pride at building equipment or comparing death tolls like some sort of badge of honour doesn’t sit right with me - this is a worldwide problem that we’ve all got to solve together. | | | |
| The EU Procurement Scheme for Ventilators on 15:54 - Apr 16 with 2355 views | Chutney |
Lets have a healthy dose of realism here:
Has our government found itself in completely unprecedented times that nobody could have prepared for? Yes.
Are we also feeling the effects of desperately under funding the NHS for 10 years? Also, Yes.
Has our government, largely spooned up this and made a mess of dealing with said tough situation? IMO, Yes.
Is it an utter p1ss take that Tory MP's stand clapping the NHS when they've largely historically shown zero regard for their welfare? Yes
Does the UK have a god given right to be able to deal with this any better than any other European country cause WE WON DA WAR? No
Are the EU some sort of knights in shining armour and model of how to deal with sourcing the relevant tools required to fight this thing? No
Are they also as much of a f*ck up as our own government? Probably, Yes.
I think we've been spoon fed so much pro-EU propaganda since 2016 that people are starting to believe that too. The whole organisation is a bit of a circus. Are we still however better off inside the circus p1ssing out than outside p1ssing in our own faces?
Almost certainly. | | | |
| The EU Procurement Scheme for Ventilators on 16:15 - Apr 16 with 2307 views | GlasgowBlue |
| The EU Procurement Scheme for Ventilators on 15:49 - Apr 16 by JakeITFC |
It’s my opinion that it’s pretty shiit if someone dies from this whether they are in the UK, Europe or anywhere else on earth.
State cheerleading and nationalist pride at building equipment or comparing death tolls like some sort of badge of honour doesn’t sit right with me - this is a worldwide problem that we’ve all got to solve together. |
The EU has failed it's member states miserably. Italy was abandoned from the off and each member state has had to go it alone.
It would be wonderful if the world could come together as one but what we have seen is that each country has prioritised it's own interests to combat this pandemic and even an organisation like the EU has been found severely lacking in leadership and organisation.
Even Macron’s has abandoned his Europeanism and globalism and is now speaking of national self-dependence.
State cheerleading and nationalist pride at building equipment may not sit well with you but I'm sure you'd be one of the first to pile on our government if we didn't have enough ventilators of if our death toll increased dramatically. |  |
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| The EU Procurement Scheme for Ventilators on 16:41 - Apr 16 with 2282 views | eireblue |
| The EU Procurement Scheme for Ventilators on 15:54 - Apr 16 by Chutney |
Lets have a healthy dose of realism here:
Has our government found itself in completely unprecedented times that nobody could have prepared for? Yes.
Are we also feeling the effects of desperately under funding the NHS for 10 years? Also, Yes.
Has our government, largely spooned up this and made a mess of dealing with said tough situation? IMO, Yes.
Is it an utter p1ss take that Tory MP's stand clapping the NHS when they've largely historically shown zero regard for their welfare? Yes
Does the UK have a god given right to be able to deal with this any better than any other European country cause WE WON DA WAR? No
Are the EU some sort of knights in shining armour and model of how to deal with sourcing the relevant tools required to fight this thing? No
Are they also as much of a f*ck up as our own government? Probably, Yes.
I think we've been spoon fed so much pro-EU propaganda since 2016 that people are starting to believe that too. The whole organisation is a bit of a circus. Are we still however better off inside the circus p1ssing out than outside p1ssing in our own faces?
Almost certainly. |
Re point 1.
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/health/2020/03/government-documents-show-n |  | | |
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| The EU Procurement Scheme for Ventilators on 16:51 - Apr 16 with 2265 views | Leaky |
Well it was in the Guardian so will be taken as gospel on here |  | | |
| The EU Procurement Scheme for Ventilators on 16:56 - Apr 16 with 2251 views | Leaky |
| The EU Procurement Scheme for Ventilators on 15:27 - Apr 16 by Lord_Lucan |
But it's being covered in another thread and it's not dissimilar in tone to those that The Loonies keep posting in an attempt at one upmanship.
I think what can be learnt from this is that people haven't a clue what is going on behind the scenes and rather than turn this board into more of an asylum for the disaffected it's probably better to take a deep breath and go and have another w4nk. [Post edited 16 Apr 2020 15:28]
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Very true another w4nk seems to be a good idea. Have you a cure for wrist arthritis. | | | |
| The EU Procurement Scheme for Ventilators on 17:07 - Apr 16 with 2245 views | StokieBlue |
| The EU Procurement Scheme for Ventilators on 15:49 - Apr 16 by JakeITFC |
It’s my opinion that it’s pretty shiit if someone dies from this whether they are in the UK, Europe or anywhere else on earth.
State cheerleading and nationalist pride at building equipment or comparing death tolls like some sort of badge of honour doesn’t sit right with me - this is a worldwide problem that we’ve all got to solve together. |
I've not done that in my post though.
I assume you have been following the arguments that if we had joined the scheme then we would be swimming in ventilators now.
SB [Post edited 16 Apr 2020 17:09]
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| The EU Procurement Scheme for Ventilators on 17:09 - Apr 16 with 2239 views | monytowbray |
| The EU Procurement Scheme for Ventilators on 15:17 - Apr 16 by StokieBlue |
I think his point is that whilst we should have joined it and that was a mistake that we didn't it's also not the silver bullet which some are holding it up to be.
SB |
They’ve got loads of PPE lined up we desperately need though. |  |
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| The EU Procurement Scheme for Ventilators on 17:10 - Apr 16 with 2238 views | StokieBlue |
| The EU Procurement Scheme for Ventilators on 17:09 - Apr 16 by monytowbray |
They’ve got loads of PPE lined up we desperately need though. |
That is also not true in the context you are suggesting.
I replied to you about this yesterday, not sure if you saw it though. That article you posted said the PPE would be coming in tranches over the next 2 to 18 weeks. They will be getting PPE but it could be in 4-5 months time.
I am sure some will come sooner which as you say it would be good to have. Saying that they have loads lined up is misleading though. Countries are still desperately trying to source it individually as well.
SB [Post edited 16 Apr 2020 17:11]
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| The EU Procurement Scheme for Ventilators on 17:14 - Apr 16 with 2225 views | monytowbray |
| The EU Procurement Scheme for Ventilators on 17:10 - Apr 16 by StokieBlue |
That is also not true in the context you are suggesting.
I replied to you about this yesterday, not sure if you saw it though. That article you posted said the PPE would be coming in tranches over the next 2 to 18 weeks. They will be getting PPE but it could be in 4-5 months time.
I am sure some will come sooner which as you say it would be good to have. Saying that they have loads lined up is misleading though. Countries are still desperately trying to source it individually as well.
SB [Post edited 16 Apr 2020 17:11]
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If we’re in a position we are in and rejecting that help, that’s a failure on our government to prioritise nationalism over lives.
Which has been my point from day one when we weren’t responding to the call.
The PPE in 2 weeks is better than none at all during a shortage. | |
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| The EU Procurement Scheme for Ventilators on 17:58 - Apr 16 with 2184 views | StokieBlue |
| The EU Procurement Scheme for Ventilators on 17:14 - Apr 16 by monytowbray |
If we’re in a position we are in and rejecting that help, that’s a failure on our government to prioritise nationalism over lives.
Which has been my point from day one when we weren’t responding to the call.
The PPE in 2 weeks is better than none at all during a shortage. |
I agree some is better than none - lets see how much turns up and when.
I have also said we should have joined.
However you've posted at least twice that they are getting loads imminently and it's not true. You've also made the same points on ventilators. Neither have come to fruition yet for any EU states so some context is needed - the scheme isn't a golden bullet and there is a global shortage for all countries.
In some better news, the CPAP is looking interesting and could mean the lack of ventilators isn't such an issue (although it seems nobody has gone without a ventilator in the UK yet - happy to be corrected on that though).
SB [Post edited 16 Apr 2020 17:59]
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| The EU Procurement Scheme for Ventilators on 18:10 - Apr 16 with 2155 views | tractordownsouth |
We were right to get Dyson to make some more but I don't understand why we didn't at least join the scheme and put our eggs in as many baskets as possible. [Post edited 16 Apr 2020 18:11]
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| The EU Procurement Scheme for Ventilators on 18:16 - Apr 16 with 2138 views | jeera |
| The EU Procurement Scheme for Ventilators on 18:10 - Apr 16 by tractordownsouth |
We were right to get Dyson to make some more but I don't understand why we didn't at least join the scheme and put our eggs in as many baskets as possible. [Post edited 16 Apr 2020 18:11]
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I am still curious to know what was wrong with Gtech's model.
I have read it didn't meet requirements but beyond that am none the wiser.
If I was lying there fighting for breath I'd rather take my chances with something rather than nothing.
And before anyone says, but what if their model could cause damage, then that's what I'm interested in knowing. |  |
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| The EU Procurement Scheme for Ventilators on 18:16 - Apr 16 with 2132 views | monytowbray |
| The EU Procurement Scheme for Ventilators on 17:58 - Apr 16 by StokieBlue |
I agree some is better than none - lets see how much turns up and when.
I have also said we should have joined.
However you've posted at least twice that they are getting loads imminently and it's not true. You've also made the same points on ventilators. Neither have come to fruition yet for any EU states so some context is needed - the scheme isn't a golden bullet and there is a global shortage for all countries.
In some better news, the CPAP is looking interesting and could mean the lack of ventilators isn't such an issue (although it seems nobody has gone without a ventilator in the UK yet - happy to be corrected on that though).
SB [Post edited 16 Apr 2020 17:59]
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£1.3bn delivered over the next 2 weeks seems like “loads” to me
But then that’s just getting into subjective pedantics. Can you really be bothered to do this again, because I can’t. | |
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| The EU Procurement Scheme for Ventilators on 18:20 - Apr 16 with 2129 views | Lord_Lucan |
| The EU Procurement Scheme for Ventilators on 18:10 - Apr 16 by tractordownsouth |
We were right to get Dyson to make some more but I don't understand why we didn't at least join the scheme and put our eggs in as many baskets as possible. [Post edited 16 Apr 2020 18:11]
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Penlon ventilator by Tommyparker 16 Apr 2020 12:34Penlon's Prima ES02 model is now authorised by the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency for use in hospitals. It follows extensive final testing of these devices in hospitals to ensure that they are safe and effective.
The Penlon device is a newly-adapated models, that meets the rapidly manufactured ventilator system specification. It is fully intubated mechanical ventilator designed to provide support to critically ill patients with a range of functions including volume and pressure controlled ventilation.
Following the device's approval, the Government has confirmed today an order of 15,000 Penlon device's.
The first dispatch of Ventilator Challenge devices will be sent to MOD Donnington today and will be delivered to the NHS.
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| The EU Procurement Scheme for Ventilators on 19:40 - Apr 16 with 2054 views | StokieBlue |
| The EU Procurement Scheme for Ventilators on 18:16 - Apr 16 by monytowbray |
£1.3bn delivered over the next 2 weeks seems like “loads” to me
But then that’s just getting into subjective pedantics. Can you really be bothered to do this again, because I can’t. |
I've not seen that, do you have a link?
The article you posted previously certainly didn't say that. That is the full amount delivered at up to 18 weeks. It's not pedantic, specifics are important:
From your article:
"European doctors and nurses are preparing to receive the first of €1.5bn (£1.3bn) worth of personal protective equipment (PPE) within days or a maximum of two weeks through a joint procurement scheme involving 25 countries and eight companies, according to internal EU documents."
SB | | | |
| The EU Procurement Scheme for Ventilators on 19:44 - Apr 16 with 2045 views | BlueBadger |
| The EU Procurement Scheme for Ventilators on 18:10 - Apr 16 by tractordownsouth |
We were right to get Dyson to make some more but I don't understand why we didn't at least join the scheme and put our eggs in as many baskets as possible. [Post edited 16 Apr 2020 18:11]
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Is the answer 'because our government are ignorant, incompetent sociopaths who somehow still think that accepting help and collaborating with our nearest neighbours at a time of global crisis is somehow tantamount to treason. |  |
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| The EU Procurement Scheme for Ventilators on 19:48 - Apr 16 with 2025 views | monytowbray |
| The EU Procurement Scheme for Ventilators on 19:40 - Apr 16 by StokieBlue |
I've not seen that, do you have a link?
The article you posted previously certainly didn't say that. That is the full amount delivered at up to 18 weeks. It's not pedantic, specifics are important:
From your article:
"European doctors and nurses are preparing to receive the first of €1.5bn (£1.3bn) worth of personal protective equipment (PPE) within days or a maximum of two weeks through a joint procurement scheme involving 25 countries and eight companies, according to internal EU documents."
SB |
Last I knew of it was £1.3bn over the next two weeks, but I don’t post an update each time I read an update. | |
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| The EU Procurement Scheme for Ventilators on 19:54 - Apr 16 with 2012 views | StokieBlue |
| The EU Procurement Scheme for Ventilators on 19:48 - Apr 16 by monytowbray |
Last I knew of it was £1.3bn over the next two weeks, but I don’t post an update each time I read an update. |
That's from the article you posted on the subject.
It doesn't say what you're saying. It says the first part of the total 1.3bn over the next two weeks with the rest coming over the next 18 weeks but at unknown times.
Perhaps the article is wrong if there is another source, in which case no problem.
SB | | | |
| The EU Procurement Scheme for Ventilators on 19:55 - Apr 16 with 2005 views | GlasgowBlue |
| The EU Procurement Scheme for Ventilators on 19:54 - Apr 16 by StokieBlue |
That's from the article you posted on the subject.
It doesn't say what you're saying. It says the first part of the total 1.3bn over the next two weeks with the rest coming over the next 18 weeks but at unknown times.
Perhaps the article is wrong if there is another source, in which case no problem.
SB |
He's misread it and is now doubling down. | |
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| The EU Procurement Scheme for Ventilators on 20:00 - Apr 16 with 1998 views | bluejacko |
| The EU Procurement Scheme for Ventilators on 18:16 - Apr 16 by jeera |
I am still curious to know what was wrong with Gtech's model.
I have read it didn't meet requirements but beyond that am none the wiser.
If I was lying there fighting for breath I'd rather take my chances with something rather than nothing.
And before anyone says, but what if their model could cause damage, then that's what I'm interested in knowing. |
Because the sad thing is if someone died using that machine the ambulance chasers and press would be all over it! | | | |
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