| Italian politicians being sued over C19 handling in 2020 07:53 - Feb 23 with 1652 views | StokieBlue |
700+ families filed a civil lawsuit against politicians over their handling of the pandemic last Feb and March. Some documents which have come to light in that case show that Italy lied to the WHO, giving itself 5 stars (top marks) for pandemic preparedness even though their plan hadn't been updated since 2006 even though they are obliged under WHO rules given their status to have updated it in 2013 and 2018.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/22/italy-misled-who-on-pandemic-readi
SB
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| Italian politicians being sued over C19 handling in 2020 on 08:07 - Feb 23 with 1608 views | Pendejo |
Corruption in Italy shocker, whatever next? Criminal gangs profiting from the pandemic? |  |
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| Italian politicians being sued over C19 handling in 2020 on 08:10 - Feb 23 with 1600 views | hype313 |
| Italian politicians being sued over C19 handling in 2020 on 08:07 - Feb 23 by Pendejo |
Corruption in Italy shocker, whatever next? Criminal gangs profiting from the pandemic? |
What, allegedly like Hancock's mates? |  |
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| Italian politicians being sued over C19 handling in 2020 on 08:16 - Feb 23 with 1589 views | StokieBlue |
| Italian politicians being sued over C19 handling in 2020 on 08:07 - Feb 23 by Pendejo |
Corruption in Italy shocker, whatever next? Criminal gangs profiting from the pandemic? |
I'm not sure it's corruption in the usual meaning of the word, this is more ongoing lying to the WHO because they haven't met their legal responsibilities as part of the IHR and their plan was 14 years out of date (think how much technology has moved on in that time).
I do suspect they were far from the only country to not be meeting that obligation though. I wonder if the lawsuit will kick-start ones in other suits attempting to hold some politicians to account for their actions.
SB | |
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| Italian politicians being sued over C19 handling in 2020 on 08:17 - Feb 23 with 1584 views | Churchman |
| Italian politicians being sued over C19 handling in 2020 on 08:07 - Feb 23 by Pendejo |
Corruption in Italy shocker, whatever next? Criminal gangs profiting from the pandemic? |
I saw something on that a week or two back. Apparently in the rich north of the country (beautiful place too), they had the money and facilities to deal with pandemic victims, with a little help in ventilators and PPE etc.
This time round the south of the country has been worse affected and isn’t in a position to deal with it largely because organised crime has symphonies off money and kit for years. |  | | |
| Italian politicians being sued over C19 handling in 2020 on 08:21 - Feb 23 with 1573 views | BrianTablet |
| Italian politicians being sued over C19 handling in 2020 on 08:10 - Feb 23 by hype313 |
What, allegedly like Hancock's mates? |
Question being asked on Radio 4 as we speak... |  |
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| Italian politicians being sued over C19 handling in 2020 on 08:26 - Feb 23 with 1573 views | BlueBadger |
| Italian politicians being sued over C19 handling in 2020 on 08:16 - Feb 23 by StokieBlue |
I'm not sure it's corruption in the usual meaning of the word, this is more ongoing lying to the WHO because they haven't met their legal responsibilities as part of the IHR and their plan was 14 years out of date (think how much technology has moved on in that time).
I do suspect they were far from the only country to not be meeting that obligation though. I wonder if the lawsuit will kick-start ones in other suits attempting to hold some politicians to account for their actions.
SB |
Lest we forget, the last pandemic exercise we had in this country showed that we were woefully underprepared.
So we responded to that, by running down supplies and scrapping the pandemic committee. [Post edited 23 Feb 2021 8:29]
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| Italian politicians being sued over C19 handling in 2020 on 08:31 - Feb 23 with 1555 views | StokieBlue |
| Italian politicians being sued over C19 handling in 2020 on 08:26 - Feb 23 by BlueBadger |
Lest we forget, the last pandemic exercise we had in this country showed that we were woefully underprepared.
So we responded to that, by running down supplies and scrapping the pandemic committee. [Post edited 23 Feb 2021 8:29]
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Agreed, plenty of countries have a lot to answer for when things are under control including the UK.
The story here is that the Italian public have pressed the issue and thus all these documents will have to be aired in court and I wonder if it might spur other people to take a similar route.
SB [Post edited 23 Feb 2021 8:32]
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| Italian politicians being sued over C19 handling in 2020 on 08:37 - Feb 23 with 1534 views | bluelagos |
| Italian politicians being sued over C19 handling in 2020 on 08:16 - Feb 23 by StokieBlue |
I'm not sure it's corruption in the usual meaning of the word, this is more ongoing lying to the WHO because they haven't met their legal responsibilities as part of the IHR and their plan was 14 years out of date (think how much technology has moved on in that time).
I do suspect they were far from the only country to not be meeting that obligation though. I wonder if the lawsuit will kick-start ones in other suits attempting to hold some politicians to account for their actions.
SB |
If you had an elderly relative who died in a care home after an untested CV patient brought the virus frrom hospital, I'd have thought there is a very arguable case.
Given the litigous nature of some law firms, I'd be amazed if there weren't cases brought here over the coming years. |  |
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| Italian politicians being sued over C19 handling in 2020 on 08:39 - Feb 23 with 1530 views | StokieBlue |
| Italian politicians being sued over C19 handling in 2020 on 08:37 - Feb 23 by bluelagos |
If you had an elderly relative who died in a care home after an untested CV patient brought the virus frrom hospital, I'd have thought there is a very arguable case.
Given the litigous nature of some law firms, I'd be amazed if there weren't cases brought here over the coming years. |
Well the people involved in the lawsuit (700+) are saying they don't care if they only get 1 EUR, they just want all the documents and information in the public domain.
Agreed, I wouldn't be surprised to see lawsuits all over the place.
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| Italian politicians being sued over C19 handling in 2020 on 08:52 - Feb 23 with 1503 views | Swansea_Blue |
I'm not sure where we've got to here in the UK. There was a family group that got together and were trying to just meet with Johnson, but of course he wouldn't. I don't know whether that's changed now. |  |
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| Italian politicians being sued over C19 handling in 2020 on 08:52 - Feb 23 with 1498 views | Pendejo |
| Italian politicians being sued over C19 handling in 2020 on 08:16 - Feb 23 by StokieBlue |
I'm not sure it's corruption in the usual meaning of the word, this is more ongoing lying to the WHO because they haven't met their legal responsibilities as part of the IHR and their plan was 14 years out of date (think how much technology has moved on in that time).
I do suspect they were far from the only country to not be meeting that obligation though. I wonder if the lawsuit will kick-start ones in other suits attempting to hold some politicians to account for their actions.
SB |
Fits the full definition of corruption
corruption
[ kuh-ruhp-shuhn ]
-the act of corrupting or state of being corrupt.
-moral perversion; depravity.
-perversion of integrity.
-corrupt or dishonest proceedings.
-bribery.
-debasement or alteration, as of language or a text
FWIW - I have believed for many years the UK to be the most corrupt country, it's just that it usually happens at such a high level we don't get to see it, despite the best efforts of Private Eye.
As a side issue;
The insurance company I used to work for bought an Italian company in the 80s, one of the big Auditing companies did their thing over there and discovered all sorts of things including ghost employees (a problem.also in NI) and a vehicle that had been written off in an "accident " that no collision damage what so ever, plenty of bullet holes, but no collision damage. | |
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| Italian politicians being sued over C19 handling in 2020 on 08:58 - Feb 23 with 1469 views | StokieBlue |
| Italian politicians being sued over C19 handling in 2020 on 08:52 - Feb 23 by Pendejo |
Fits the full definition of corruption
corruption
[ kuh-ruhp-shuhn ]
-the act of corrupting or state of being corrupt.
-moral perversion; depravity.
-perversion of integrity.
-corrupt or dishonest proceedings.
-bribery.
-debasement or alteration, as of language or a text
FWIW - I have believed for many years the UK to be the most corrupt country, it's just that it usually happens at such a high level we don't get to see it, despite the best efforts of Private Eye.
As a side issue;
The insurance company I used to work for bought an Italian company in the 80s, one of the big Auditing companies did their thing over there and discovered all sorts of things including ghost employees (a problem.also in NI) and a vehicle that had been written off in an "accident " that no collision damage what so ever, plenty of bullet holes, but no collision damage. |
I still don't think it fits the definition, it would require 5 or 6 successive governments to have been corrupt on the same issue for 14 years. Seems more like gross incompetence to me but I guess it's not really that important.
Certainly a very strong case to be made for corruption by this government in awarding contracts to their cronies. Hopefully there will be a full investigation in time.
Excellent story!
SB | |
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| Italian politicians being sued over C19 handling in 2020 on 08:59 - Feb 23 with 1468 views | Churchman |
| Italian politicians being sued over C19 handling in 2020 on 08:26 - Feb 23 by BlueBadger |
Lest we forget, the last pandemic exercise we had in this country showed that we were woefully underprepared.
So we responded to that, by running down supplies and scrapping the pandemic committee. [Post edited 23 Feb 2021 8:29]
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This is actually true. Up until about the financial crisis pandemic planning was taken seriously in government. It would have been wholly inadequate for this pandemic, but there was something there at national and local level and it was considered important. This, I believe, declined under the Coalition’s priorities and then came Brexit.
After 2017, there was only so much resource and that had to go to Brexit preparation. I am not saying it’s right and it of course looks insane now but that’s how it felt at the time. If you face a choice of planning for the unknown or planning for the known and the known looks totally catastrophic, unless you have the gift of foresight which do you choose?
As in all things, I hope there are lessons learned. I’d love to see the politics taken out of certain aspects of any review (not accountability - that sits with the Govt) too, but that’s never going to happen, sadly. [Post edited 23 Feb 2021 8:59]
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| Italian politicians being sued over C19 handling in 2020 on 09:05 - Feb 23 with 1444 views | bluelagos |
| Italian politicians being sued over C19 handling in 2020 on 08:52 - Feb 23 by Pendejo |
Fits the full definition of corruption
corruption
[ kuh-ruhp-shuhn ]
-the act of corrupting or state of being corrupt.
-moral perversion; depravity.
-perversion of integrity.
-corrupt or dishonest proceedings.
-bribery.
-debasement or alteration, as of language or a text
FWIW - I have believed for many years the UK to be the most corrupt country, it's just that it usually happens at such a high level we don't get to see it, despite the best efforts of Private Eye.
As a side issue;
The insurance company I used to work for bought an Italian company in the 80s, one of the big Auditing companies did their thing over there and discovered all sorts of things including ghost employees (a problem.also in NI) and a vehicle that had been written off in an "accident " that no collision damage what so ever, plenty of bullet holes, but no collision damage. |
Corruption in the UK you say?
PwC no less used to charge their clients for the hire of staff, plus expenses charged at the cost paid.
They also negotiated discounts based on volume that were payable at the end of the year. These discounts were for hotels, car hires etc. All standard procurement procedures.
These discounts were rarely passed onto clients.
I know all of this is true, not least because one of my consulting jobs, for PwC was helping them set up their procurement department post merger (PW with C)
And I am happy to name them, as nothing I have said is untrue and/or would make me open to slander.
I would suggest that is corruption, others may think otherwise.
*No idea if this still happens and/or whether this is industry wide. | |
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| Italian politicians being sued over C19 handling in 2020 on 09:21 - Feb 23 with 1398 views | Churchman |
| Italian politicians being sued over C19 handling in 2020 on 09:05 - Feb 23 by bluelagos |
Corruption in the UK you say?
PwC no less used to charge their clients for the hire of staff, plus expenses charged at the cost paid.
They also negotiated discounts based on volume that were payable at the end of the year. These discounts were for hotels, car hires etc. All standard procurement procedures.
These discounts were rarely passed onto clients.
I know all of this is true, not least because one of my consulting jobs, for PwC was helping them set up their procurement department post merger (PW with C)
And I am happy to name them, as nothing I have said is untrue and/or would make me open to slander.
I would suggest that is corruption, others may think otherwise.
*No idea if this still happens and/or whether this is industry wide. |
I’ve worked with people from PwC and other consultancies. It’s a very murky world out there and not restricted to consultancies. | | | |
| Italian politicians being sued over C19 handling in 2020 on 09:35 - Feb 23 with 1373 views | bluelagos |
| Italian politicians being sued over C19 handling in 2020 on 09:21 - Feb 23 by Churchman |
I’ve worked with people from PwC and other consultancies. It’s a very murky world out there and not restricted to consultancies. |
Absolutely.
Worked in the brewing industry before consulting and that had some very dubious business practices in the late 90s.
And the stories I was told by a mate working in construction about how they obtained contracts involved a lot more than kick backs.
We like to think of the UK as less corrupt than many places, but I've never really subscribed to that view tbh. | |
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| Italian politicians being sued over C19 handling in 2020 on 11:37 - Feb 23 with 1312 views | BlueBadger |
| Italian politicians being sued over C19 handling in 2020 on 08:31 - Feb 23 by StokieBlue |
Agreed, plenty of countries have a lot to answer for when things are under control including the UK.
The story here is that the Italian public have pressed the issue and thus all these documents will have to be aired in court and I wonder if it might spur other people to take a similar route.
SB [Post edited 23 Feb 2021 8:32]
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Frankly, I'm amazed that people aren't demanding the heads of Johnson, Hancock and Cummings on a spike.
And that's before I get started on those irresponsible sociopaths in the CRG. | |
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| Italian politicians being sued over C19 handling in 2020 on 12:17 - Feb 23 with 1266 views | jaykay |
| Italian politicians being sued over C19 handling in 2020 on 08:58 - Feb 23 by StokieBlue |
I still don't think it fits the definition, it would require 5 or 6 successive governments to have been corrupt on the same issue for 14 years. Seems more like gross incompetence to me but I guess it's not really that important.
Certainly a very strong case to be made for corruption by this government in awarding contracts to their cronies. Hopefully there will be a full investigation in time.
Excellent story!
SB |
i hope you are right. i may have missed it but there hardly much fuss over this.
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/matt-hancock-government-covid-contracts-u |  |
| forensic experts say footers and spruces fingerprints were not found at the scene after the weekends rows |
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| Italian politicians being sued over C19 handling in 2020 on 12:26 - Feb 23 with 1259 views | LeoMuff |
| Italian politicians being sued over C19 handling in 2020 on 11:37 - Feb 23 by BlueBadger |
Frankly, I'm amazed that people aren't demanding the heads of Johnson, Hancock and Cummings on a spike.
And that's before I get started on those irresponsible sociopaths in the CRG. |
I agree, but the vaccine roll out has been such a success all other failures will be swept away. Unless there are of course some significant skeletons in the procurement closet. |  |
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| Italian politicians being sued over C19 handling in 2020 on 12:39 - Feb 23 with 1239 views | Darth_Koont |
| Italian politicians being sued over C19 handling in 2020 on 08:52 - Feb 23 by Pendejo |
Fits the full definition of corruption
corruption
[ kuh-ruhp-shuhn ]
-the act of corrupting or state of being corrupt.
-moral perversion; depravity.
-perversion of integrity.
-corrupt or dishonest proceedings.
-bribery.
-debasement or alteration, as of language or a text
FWIW - I have believed for many years the UK to be the most corrupt country, it's just that it usually happens at such a high level we don't get to see it, despite the best efforts of Private Eye.
As a side issue;
The insurance company I used to work for bought an Italian company in the 80s, one of the big Auditing companies did their thing over there and discovered all sorts of things including ghost employees (a problem.also in NI) and a vehicle that had been written off in an "accident " that no collision damage what so ever, plenty of bullet holes, but no collision damage. |
Absolutely!
There’s a denial of corruption in the UK because really that’s how the Establishment and the class networks have always operated.
Be interested to hear LestaTractor’s take on this who I seem to remember lived in Italy for even longer, but when I was briefly living in Italy corruption (or more accurately, taking what you can get for you and your family) was widespread. They even have a word for it “furbo” which is a grudging respect and admiration for someone’s cunning and ability to hustle. It’s also why someone like Berlusconi was so popular despite his shady history in business and politics.
In Italy corruption and cronyism is democratised – everyone can do it in principle at least. But because there’s an awareness they tend to react and it becomes a scandal when it goes too far. There’s a belief that even in this area there are certain standards and limits.
We have almost none of that in the UK. From awareness and acceptance to the checks and balances. Sure, if individuals get in the way of and jeopardise powerful interests then they’ll be exposed. But it’s a pretty cosy club at the top-level of politics, media and business/finance where back-scratching, backhanders and omerta seem to be the code.
In the digital age, more access to information and a wider ability publishing it has exposed a lot of this stuff. And issues like the pandemic create another level of scrutiny. But so far it doesn’t even seem if we can translate that into action. With Hancock the media are largely looking elsewhere, while the lack of political presssure on him even from the opposition speaks volumes about the political class and which side they think their bread is buttered. |  |
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| Italian politicians being sued over C19 handling in 2020 on 12:58 - Feb 23 with 1206 views | Meadowlark |
I've was posting updates about this on here for a while, but no one was taking any interest, so I stopped! |  | | |
| Italian politicians being sued over C19 handling in 2020 on 12:59 - Feb 23 with 1204 views | jeera |
| Italian politicians being sued over C19 handling in 2020 on 12:58 - Feb 23 by Meadowlark |
I've was posting updates about this on here for a while, but no one was taking any interest, so I stopped! |
I was reading them! |  |
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