| Indeed on 15:48 - Feb 17 with 1943 views | Dyland |
| POTY on 15:44 - Feb 17 by StokieBlue |
Sagan was an excellent science communicator, especially for the period when it was far more unusual.
SB [Post edited 17 Feb 2020 15:44]
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I got the follow up to Cosmos, Comet, for Christmas when I was a kid and even though it was over my head, excuse the pun, it cemented my obsession. |  |
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| Oh yeh, I got that (n/t) on 15:49 - Feb 17 with 1942 views | Dyland |
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| Astronomers want public funds on 08:19 - Feb 18 with 1882 views | NewcyBlue |
Hey Stokie. We got Seb a telescope for Christmas.
Wrapped him up nice and warm and took him out with a flask of hot chocolate and had a little look around the other Friday night. |  |
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| Astronomers want public funds on 08:21 - Feb 18 with 1876 views | Herbivore |
| Astronomers want public funds on 13:04 - Feb 17 by BrixtonBlue |
Why is this incredible? We absolutely should be funding this.
In fact finding a habitable planet (that we can also get to) is of the utmost importance given how much we're fecking up this planet. |
There is zero chance of us finding an inhabitable planet within a distance that we could get to it, Dollers. The distances to these kinds of planets are impossibly large. |  |
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| Astronomers want public funds on 08:23 - Feb 18 with 1875 views | StokieBlue |
| Astronomers want public funds on 08:19 - Feb 18 by NewcyBlue |
Hey Stokie. We got Seb a telescope for Christmas.
Wrapped him up nice and warm and took him out with a flask of hot chocolate and had a little look around the other Friday night. |
That's excellent, what type did you get?
You're lucky that you're close to the largest dark skies park in Europe, you'll get great visibility there and this plenty to see.
Even in London the moon's of Jupiter are very clear and on a good day the rings of Saturn.
A really good present which will stimulate his curiosity.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Astronomers want public funds on 08:31 - Feb 18 with 1862 views | NewcyBlue |
| Astronomers want public funds on 08:23 - Feb 18 by StokieBlue |
That's excellent, what type did you get?
You're lucky that you're close to the largest dark skies park in Europe, you'll get great visibility there and this plenty to see.
Even in London the moon's of Jupiter are very clear and on a good day the rings of Saturn.
A really good present which will stimulate his curiosity.
SB |
We got him a 50mm reflector.
It’s just a little starter thing. I took a pair of binoculars with us too.
He loved it. I’ve been teaching him about Constellations and how to use them to find other stars.
Kielder is fantastic to go to, the observatory there is amazing. If you’ve not been you really should! | |
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| Astronomers want public funds on 09:04 - Feb 18 with 1849 views | StokieBlue |
| Astronomers want public funds on 08:21 - Feb 18 by Herbivore |
There is zero chance of us finding an inhabitable planet within a distance that we could get to it, Dollers. The distances to these kinds of planets are impossibly large. |
Currently yes, over the longer term then that isn't guaranteed. Slower-than-light ships could colonize the whole galaxy but it would take hundreds of millions of years and exponential growth.
For a more realistic scenario our nearest neighbour is 4 light-years away and looks to have some promising planets. There were designs in the 70's to use nukes to propel a ship to 11% of C (Orion ship) which would mean it would take ~36 years to get there. Ground based laser propulsion might be able to achieve a faster speed but you also then get weird time dilation effects.
You are essentially correct though. It's not going to happen anytime soon. It's not impossible though given enough resources and tech. If we manage to get through the next 100-150 years it will start to become more likely but it's not going to save us from our current problems.
We need to address those right here on Earth.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Astronomers want public funds on 09:06 - Feb 18 with 1843 views | StokieBlue |
| Astronomers want public funds on 08:31 - Feb 18 by NewcyBlue |
We got him a 50mm reflector.
It’s just a little starter thing. I took a pair of binoculars with us too.
He loved it. I’ve been teaching him about Constellations and how to use them to find other stars.
Kielder is fantastic to go to, the observatory there is amazing. If you’ve not been you really should! |
I've been wanting to get up there for a while, it's certainly on the list but I've not been yet.
That sounds like a good starter scope. If he enjoys it you might want to try something like s 130mm Dobsonian - where you live you'll be able to see some good stuff and the Dobsonian mounting makes it easy for kids to use if you have a fold-up table or something.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Astronomers want public funds on 13:43 - Feb 18 with 1812 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Astronomers want public funds on 08:21 - Feb 18 by Herbivore |
There is zero chance of us finding an inhabitable planet within a distance that we could get to it, Dollers. The distances to these kinds of planets are impossibly large. |
You (and your up-arrowers) are incorrect. Read Physics Of The Impossible by Michio Kaku. It's not possible yet but it's very likely to be in the near future, so to say there's zero chance is fallacious. |  |
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| Astronomers want public funds on 13:47 - Feb 18 with 1803 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Astronomers want public funds on 09:04 - Feb 18 by StokieBlue |
Currently yes, over the longer term then that isn't guaranteed. Slower-than-light ships could colonize the whole galaxy but it would take hundreds of millions of years and exponential growth.
For a more realistic scenario our nearest neighbour is 4 light-years away and looks to have some promising planets. There were designs in the 70's to use nukes to propel a ship to 11% of C (Orion ship) which would mean it would take ~36 years to get there. Ground based laser propulsion might be able to achieve a faster speed but you also then get weird time dilation effects.
You are essentially correct though. It's not going to happen anytime soon. It's not impossible though given enough resources and tech. If we manage to get through the next 100-150 years it will start to become more likely but it's not going to save us from our current problems.
We need to address those right here on Earth.
SB |
You've explained in further detail here what I've just said. Surprising that you've up-arrowed Herbi and then explained how he's wrong! | |
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| Astronomers want public funds on 13:48 - Feb 18 with 1800 views | Herbivore |
| Astronomers want public funds on 13:43 - Feb 18 by BrixtonBlue |
You (and your up-arrowers) are incorrect. Read Physics Of The Impossible by Michio Kaku. It's not possible yet but it's very likely to be in the near future, so to say there's zero chance is fallacious. |
A book on theoretical physics is not irrefutable proof, Dollers. How are you quantifying the near future on this one? I will happily wager you that in our lifetime we won't be able to travel to planets that are lightyears away from Earth. | |
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| Astronomers want public funds on 13:49 - Feb 18 with 1801 views | StokieBlue |
| Astronomers want public funds on 13:47 - Feb 18 by BrixtonBlue |
You've explained in further detail here what I've just said. Surprising that you've up-arrowed Herbi and then explained how he's wrong! |
I think him and I read your original post as something that would happen soon and be a solution to some of our current problems. Hence the upvote for the short-term vision.
My later post was more detail on why it could happen over longer time frames. I saw them as two separate parts of the same general point.
SB [Post edited 18 Feb 2020 13:49]
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| Astronomers want public funds on 13:49 - Feb 18 with 1801 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Astronomers want public funds on 09:06 - Feb 18 by StokieBlue |
I've been wanting to get up there for a while, it's certainly on the list but I've not been yet.
That sounds like a good starter scope. If he enjoys it you might want to try something like s 130mm Dobsonian - where you live you'll be able to see some good stuff and the Dobsonian mounting makes it easy for kids to use if you have a fold-up table or something.
SB |
As you seem to have some knowledge of telescopes, what should one be looking for when buying one? I think it'd make a great present for my notoriously hard to buy for dad. And myself, actually. | |
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| Astronomers want public funds on 13:50 - Feb 18 with 1796 views | footers |
| Astronomers want public funds on 13:48 - Feb 18 by Herbivore |
A book on theoretical physics is not irrefutable proof, Dollers. How are you quantifying the near future on this one? I will happily wager you that in our lifetime we won't be able to travel to planets that are lightyears away from Earth. |
Nonsense. I went to Planet Blue just last month. |  |
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| Astronomers want public funds on 13:51 - Feb 18 with 1791 views | StokieBlue |
| Astronomers want public funds on 13:49 - Feb 18 by BrixtonBlue |
As you seem to have some knowledge of telescopes, what should one be looking for when buying one? I think it'd make a great present for my notoriously hard to buy for dad. And myself, actually. |
That entirely depends what you want to do. What do you want to see? Where will you be looking from? Do you want to learn to find things yourself?
And then of course there is budget.
I wouldn't say I know loads (Geoff seems knowledgeable) but can assist a bit.
Looking through a telescope is amazing though as long as your expectations are realistic. Just seeing the moons of Jupiter as points of light is great to me.
SB | |
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| Astronomers want public funds on 13:53 - Feb 18 with 1782 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Astronomers want public funds on 13:48 - Feb 18 by Herbivore |
A book on theoretical physics is not irrefutable proof, Dollers. How are you quantifying the near future on this one? I will happily wager you that in our lifetime we won't be able to travel to planets that are lightyears away from Earth. |
I didn't say it was irrefutable proof, I said "it's very likely to be". I also didn't say anything about our lifetime.
Stokie explained in more detail - to say there's zero chance, which is what you said (with no qualifiers like "in our lifetime"), is incorrect. | |
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| Astronomers want public funds on 14:00 - Feb 18 with 1769 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Astronomers want public funds on 13:51 - Feb 18 by StokieBlue |
That entirely depends what you want to do. What do you want to see? Where will you be looking from? Do you want to learn to find things yourself?
And then of course there is budget.
I wouldn't say I know loads (Geoff seems knowledgeable) but can assist a bit.
Looking through a telescope is amazing though as long as your expectations are realistic. Just seeing the moons of Jupiter as points of light is great to me.
SB |
If it's me I'll be looking from Crystal Palace, if it's my dad; Essex. I'd want to see as much as possible and yes I'd like to learn to find things myself. I've no real clue on budget, this is all hypothetical at the moment as none of us have a birthday coming up anytime soon.
As an aside, what's the LHC up to these days? I've just finished Physics Of The Impossible, which is a fascinating read but a bit out of date now as in that the LHC hasn't even been turned on yet!
I'm really interested in quantum stuff at the moment. | |
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| Astronomers want public funds on 14:01 - Feb 18 with 1766 views | Herbivore |
| Astronomers want public funds on 13:53 - Feb 18 by BrixtonBlue |
I didn't say it was irrefutable proof, I said "it's very likely to be". I also didn't say anything about our lifetime.
Stokie explained in more detail - to say there's zero chance, which is what you said (with no qualifiers like "in our lifetime"), is incorrect. |
Given how close we are to a genuine climate crisis, I'd say that the possibiity of us being able to move to another planet that is inhabitable needs to come relatively soon. If it's still theoretically possible but nowhere near being achievable in a couple of hundred years (maybe less) when much of life on Earth has been wiped out then it's not a fat lot of good.
You were the one who said it would be very likely to be achievable in the near future. What sort of timescale are we talking here? Is it worth me buying property on this as yet undiscovered inhabitable planet that we can get to in theory? | |
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| Astronomers want public funds on 14:07 - Feb 18 with 1756 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Astronomers want public funds on 14:01 - Feb 18 by Herbivore |
Given how close we are to a genuine climate crisis, I'd say that the possibiity of us being able to move to another planet that is inhabitable needs to come relatively soon. If it's still theoretically possible but nowhere near being achievable in a couple of hundred years (maybe less) when much of life on Earth has been wiped out then it's not a fat lot of good.
You were the one who said it would be very likely to be achievable in the near future. What sort of timescale are we talking here? Is it worth me buying property on this as yet undiscovered inhabitable planet that we can get to in theory? |
Are you suggesting much of life on Earth will be wiped out in less than a couple of hundred years? Blimey.
A couple of hundred years is what I'd consider the near future. When we're talking about the cosmos, a couple of hundred years is the blink of an eye.
You seem to be dancing around the issue - why not just admit that you were wrong to say there's zero chance we'd be able to inhabit another planet? | |
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| Astronomers want public funds on 14:09 - Feb 18 with 1751 views | StokieBlue |
| Astronomers want public funds on 14:00 - Feb 18 by BrixtonBlue |
If it's me I'll be looking from Crystal Palace, if it's my dad; Essex. I'd want to see as much as possible and yes I'd like to learn to find things myself. I've no real clue on budget, this is all hypothetical at the moment as none of us have a birthday coming up anytime soon.
As an aside, what's the LHC up to these days? I've just finished Physics Of The Impossible, which is a fascinating read but a bit out of date now as in that the LHC hasn't even been turned on yet!
I'm really interested in quantum stuff at the moment. |
He'd see more than you from Essex but as long as you just want to look at a few things a 6 inch scope would be fine. Just don't expect anything you can buy to look like the images you see from hubble or something :). Often things will just be a smudge.
The LHC has been shutdown for upgrades since 2018 and will remain so until 2021. It'll then open for a run and close again to upgrade some more instruments.
At least they have a lot of data to work through during the shutdown periods.
Glad you're enjoy quantum mechanics, it's a brain-buster.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Astronomers want public funds on 14:09 - Feb 18 with 1748 views | Herbivore |
| Astronomers want public funds on 14:07 - Feb 18 by BrixtonBlue |
Are you suggesting much of life on Earth will be wiped out in less than a couple of hundred years? Blimey.
A couple of hundred years is what I'd consider the near future. When we're talking about the cosmos, a couple of hundred years is the blink of an eye.
You seem to be dancing around the issue - why not just admit that you were wrong to say there's zero chance we'd be able to inhabit another planet? |
Because I don't think I'm wrong, Dollers. For all practical purposes I make the chances zero. | |
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| Astronomers want public funds on 14:12 - Feb 18 with 1743 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Astronomers want public funds on 14:09 - Feb 18 by Herbivore |
Because I don't think I'm wrong, Dollers. For all practical purposes I make the chances zero. |
Me and Stokie have shown in this thread that the chances aren't zero. | |
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| Astronomers want public funds on 14:13 - Feb 18 with 1739 views | Herbivore |
| Astronomers want public funds on 14:12 - Feb 18 by BrixtonBlue |
Me and Stokie have shown in this thread that the chances aren't zero. |
You mentioned a book. | |
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| Astronomers want public funds on 15:01 - Feb 18 with 1723 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Astronomers want public funds on 14:13 - Feb 18 by Herbivore |
You mentioned a book. |
Yes, that explains scientifically how this is possible. Maybe you should read it.
Stokie has also explained how it's possible.
Put these things together and you'll see there isn't zero chance of it happening. | |
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