| Are these the dying days of democracy 11:10 - Dec 8 with 1949 views | Crawfordsboot |
I have every sympathy with the thousands of people who have suffered loss and pain throughout the covid restrictions. As they followed rules those in power were partying and taking us for muppets to be led by the nose.
The party in no 10, though obscene, is not of itself the most important issue. The press focussing on was it a party, wasn’t it a party, do us a disservice.
The press should instead focus on the big picture and list the multitude of issues where the actions of this political class have undermined and devalued democracy in this country. Taking just a handful of issues, each one of which causes outrage:
BJ and Jennifer Acura
Dominic Cummings blind drive during lockdown
The response to Covid
Redecorating BJs apartment at huge expense paid for by parties unknown
Lobbying sleaze
Covid contracts for friends
Excessive earnings outside parliament
The PM assurance that the party didn’t take place.
As each one of these surfaced the response has been obfuscation and denial and no one gets held to account. Each one is obscene in its own right but collectively this undermines democracy. If those who govern ignore the rules at every turn why shouldn’t you or I be free to do likewise. We see consequences of this everywhere. The important right to protest is no longer about registering a protest and trying to persuade people to a point of view it has become the right of an individual or individuals to impose their beliefs on the majority on what in the past would be called a civil society. The social values of fairness and integrity have been undermined from the top down.
It’s almost as if this revolting Govt has set out to push the population into anarchy and revolt.
Instead of jumping up and down for a week or so about each individual issue the press and political analysts should be highlighting this bigger picture.
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| Are these the dying days of democracy on 11:11 - Dec 8 with 1930 views | davblue |
and now new restrictions coming in to take the focus away.
The media have to keep questioning the party element. |  | | |
| Are these the dying days of democracy on 11:12 - Dec 8 with 1916 views | Wicksy |
Couldn't agree more - well said |  |
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| Are these the dying days of democracy on 11:19 - Dec 8 with 1885 views | noggin |
Yeah but Corbyn didn't sing GSTQ. |  |
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| Are these the dying days of democracy on 11:20 - Dec 8 with 1876 views | nodge_blue |
Its no different to how its ever been. It just gets reported much more easily these days due to digital media.
Chill out and worry about the football. |  |
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| Are these the dying days of democracy on 11:30 - Dec 8 with 1827 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Are these the dying days of democracy on 11:20 - Dec 8 by nodge_blue |
Its no different to how its ever been. It just gets reported much more easily these days due to digital media.
Chill out and worry about the football. |
True, there was a period in the 30s when it was similar... |  |
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| Are these the dying days of democracy on 11:32 - Dec 8 with 1819 views | noggin |
| Are these the dying days of democracy on 11:20 - Dec 8 by nodge_blue |
Its no different to how its ever been. It just gets reported much more easily these days due to digital media.
Chill out and worry about the football. |
Yeah, it's only old people dying, or something. | |
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| Are these the dying days of democracy on 11:34 - Dec 8 with 1809 views | giant_stow |
bang on. |  |
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| Are these the dying days of democracy on 11:37 - Dec 8 with 1796 views | nodge_blue |
| Are these the dying days of democracy on 11:32 - Dec 8 by noggin |
Yeah, it's only old people dying, or something. |
Don't get me started Noggin. I quite like you xx
Its not the dying days of democracy. Half the country were bending the rules all last Winter anyway.
Not me. I didnt. Wouldn't. And am fully jabbed, mask wearing.
My point wasn't about deaths. Its the idea that naughtiness or corruption hasn't been happening since year dot. It probably in all honesty happens far less today as a percentage of people than it did. | |
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| Are these the dying days of democracy on 11:38 - Dec 8 with 1793 views | Illinoisblue |
| Are these the dying days of democracy on 11:20 - Dec 8 by nodge_blue |
Its no different to how its ever been. It just gets reported much more easily these days due to digital media.
Chill out and worry about the football. |
It is different in that there are no longer any consequences for MPs and Ministers who blatantly and repeatedly lie and cheat and corrupt. |  |
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| Are these the dying days of democracy on 11:59 - Dec 8 with 1745 views | Crawfordsboot |
| Are these the dying days of democracy on 11:37 - Dec 8 by nodge_blue |
Don't get me started Noggin. I quite like you xx
Its not the dying days of democracy. Half the country were bending the rules all last Winter anyway.
Not me. I didnt. Wouldn't. And am fully jabbed, mask wearing.
My point wasn't about deaths. Its the idea that naughtiness or corruption hasn't been happening since year dot. It probably in all honesty happens far less today as a percentage of people than it did. |
Of course these things have been happening but it’s a question of balance. A balance between greed and selfishness on one hand and a moral responsibility on the other. I just fear that this current government is pushing our society to a tipping point. | | | |
| Are these the dying days of democracy on 12:12 - Dec 8 with 1714 views | ElephantintheRoom |
Depends what you define as democracy. 44% of the electorate voted for this shower - ie 56% wanted anything but and are told that this landslide of 44% is a mandate for the people
You'll go back a long way before you find a government that was actually voted for by the majority of the Bitish people - though a golden opportunity was tossed away by the majority in opposition before the last election who could have formed a government of national unity |  |
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| Are these the dying days of democracy on 12:17 - Dec 8 with 1704 views | Ryorry |
| Are these the dying days of democracy on 11:59 - Dec 8 by Crawfordsboot |
Of course these things have been happening but it’s a question of balance. A balance between greed and selfishness on one hand and a moral responsibility on the other. I just fear that this current government is pushing our society to a tipping point. |
It's not just *our* current govt., it's in several other govts. around the world, esp the USA, as anyone who saw the QAnon prog on C4 last night will testify.
The internet - humankind's biggest mixed blessing ever? 🤔 |  |
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| Are these the dying days of democracy on 12:21 - Dec 8 with 1694 views | NthQldITFC |
| Are these the dying days of democracy on 11:38 - Dec 8 by Illinoisblue |
It is different in that there are no longer any consequences for MPs and Ministers who blatantly and repeatedly lie and cheat and corrupt. |
Each further bit of cheating that we let the bastards get away with has a ratcheting effect on lowering standards of integrity and destroying our society.
"Don't make such a fuss, this is not much worse than what we did last month." |  |
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| Are these the dying days of democracy on 12:50 - Dec 8 with 1642 views | Illinoisblue |
| Are these the dying days of democracy on 12:21 - Dec 8 by NthQldITFC |
Each further bit of cheating that we let the bastards get away with has a ratcheting effect on lowering standards of integrity and destroying our society.
"Don't make such a fuss, this is not much worse than what we did last month." |
Indeed. And whatever plan b measures are introduced the reaction from a lot of people is going to be “fk you, I’ll break the rules just like you did” | |
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| Are these the dying days of democracy on 16:40 - Dec 8 with 1475 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
With respect, you have actually missed the big ones which would totally back up your thread title:
Proroguing of Parliament.
The removal of many anti-Brexit Tory MPs by deselecting them by text prior to the last General Election. This eliminated their moderating voices from internal debate within the Party as well as sending a signal to others that any opposition was not an option.
Politicisation of the Police, including greatly increased powers.
Increase in scope of powers for Ministers to make laws/regulations without recourse to Parliament. Initially because of the "Brexit workload" but increased with Covid.
Introduction of policy and regulations at press conferences rather than through Parliament.
Removal of the right to protest.
The ability for the Home Secretary to remove citizenship without prior warning or due process.
Attacks on the RNLI (!!!!!!!!!!!!!) for not following Government policy.
Interference in Media: appointing lackeys to BBC board positions and changing remit of Ofcom.
Removal of powers of Courts to rule on Ministerial over-reach/declare Government decisions illegal.
Wanton disregard for International Law over Brexit, particularly regarding the legally binding nature of both The Good Friday Agreement and the Exit Treaty.
Gerrymandering of Constituency Boundaries.
When you add in all of the freedoms and protections that the British public gave up voluntarily through voting to "Get Brexit Done" at the last General Election, it is staggering how quickly we have moved from a democracy with quirks and historic faults to, but where we give consent to be governed, to a system where the Government now gives us consent, or not, to quite basic freedoms.
When you add in the fact that the majority of the British media is controlled by a few very rich people who have their own agendas which don't necessarily line up with the Public Interest, and who can either remove opposition voices by denying them space (Starmer) or smear them (Corbyn) then the attacks on the supposedly impartial outlets such as the BBC are amplified.
I read on Twitter yesterday a retired senior Foreign Office Civil Servant who says that in his opinion it is unlikely that the next General Election will happen. Just to be clear: all of the above mean that the Government could ensure that it doesn't. You read it here first. You won't read it in the papers.
I've been banging on about many of these issues for ages on here (and elsewhere) and warning that the Government was effectively passing an Enabling Act, but most people just shrug.
All the checks and balances have been undermined. | | | |
| Are these the dying days of democracy on 16:45 - Dec 8 with 1456 views | footers |
Most of the bigger examples you list, quite rightly btw, won't hit home to your average voter though because they don't affect them. They should of course be highly critical of this government but even recently one lady in the by-election simply shrugged it all off and said Johnson's a bit of a laugh, so he has her vote.
This, though, will resonate with pretty much everyone up and down the country who made their sacrifices last year. It really shouldn't come down to such a blindingly obvious example to do it, but half the country simply isn't interested in the other points, in no small part thanks to the media. |  |
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| Are these the dying days of democracy on 16:55 - Dec 8 with 1416 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Are these the dying days of democracy on 16:45 - Dec 8 by footers |
Most of the bigger examples you list, quite rightly btw, won't hit home to your average voter though because they don't affect them. They should of course be highly critical of this government but even recently one lady in the by-election simply shrugged it all off and said Johnson's a bit of a laugh, so he has her vote.
This, though, will resonate with pretty much everyone up and down the country who made their sacrifices last year. It really shouldn't come down to such a blindingly obvious example to do it, but half the country simply isn't interested in the other points, in no small part thanks to the media. |
I'm guessing that was to me, not OP?
Yes, that is my experience. Nobody is interested. Nobody cares. I could say in the run up to Brexit "The Human Rights Act and the European Court are the most amazing protections for individual citizens in human history" and they didn't care, or said "Yes, but terrorists hide behind them".
We have given up democracy without a whimper.
You are right that this angle has the power to cut through, but I'm not sure it is in our interests that it does.
If Johnson resigns that fits the Tory playbook perfectly. A year and a half to the next Election, six months dominated by speculation over who might declare as leadership candidates, then Primetime airtime given to Leadership debates. All the while Labour etc aren't given the same airtime and appear irrelevant. Then the new person comes in, distances themselves from Johnson and has the "shiny new interesting" factor, with the in-the-pocket media doing the toe-curling "At home on the sofa" interviews. Then the basic appeal to the voters is: well, you've got to give them a chance, haven't you?
And if it is Gove or Rees-Mogg then the lurch to totalitarianism will continue, but with a much more efficient machine at the centre. | | | |
| Are these the dying days of democracy on 17:01 - Dec 8 with 1397 views | Crawfordsboot |
Moorhen - I agree with all you add.
It’s scary as hell that Turkeys are still voting for Christmas | | | |
| Are these the dying days of democracy on 17:14 - Dec 8 with 1360 views | Matterhorn |
| Are these the dying days of democracy on 17:01 - Dec 8 by Crawfordsboot |
Moorhen - I agree with all you add.
It’s scary as hell that Turkeys are still voting for Christmas |
It’s a big problem in this country that people just don’t care what’s going on under their noses & until we get some serious opposition to this load of heathens it will stay that way, it’s only when people can’t get what they want when they want that thing matter to them, like going to the pub or maccyd’s , that’s much more serious than this lot crapping all over them! anyway let’s all plant a tree while the building company’s who give cash to the tories tear up acres of green belt every day |  | | |
| Are these the dying days of democracy on 17:56 - Dec 8 with 1301 views | Geomorph |
| Are these the dying days of democracy on 16:40 - Dec 8 by ArnoldMoorhen |
With respect, you have actually missed the big ones which would totally back up your thread title:
Proroguing of Parliament.
The removal of many anti-Brexit Tory MPs by deselecting them by text prior to the last General Election. This eliminated their moderating voices from internal debate within the Party as well as sending a signal to others that any opposition was not an option.
Politicisation of the Police, including greatly increased powers.
Increase in scope of powers for Ministers to make laws/regulations without recourse to Parliament. Initially because of the "Brexit workload" but increased with Covid.
Introduction of policy and regulations at press conferences rather than through Parliament.
Removal of the right to protest.
The ability for the Home Secretary to remove citizenship without prior warning or due process.
Attacks on the RNLI (!!!!!!!!!!!!!) for not following Government policy.
Interference in Media: appointing lackeys to BBC board positions and changing remit of Ofcom.
Removal of powers of Courts to rule on Ministerial over-reach/declare Government decisions illegal.
Wanton disregard for International Law over Brexit, particularly regarding the legally binding nature of both The Good Friday Agreement and the Exit Treaty.
Gerrymandering of Constituency Boundaries.
When you add in all of the freedoms and protections that the British public gave up voluntarily through voting to "Get Brexit Done" at the last General Election, it is staggering how quickly we have moved from a democracy with quirks and historic faults to, but where we give consent to be governed, to a system where the Government now gives us consent, or not, to quite basic freedoms.
When you add in the fact that the majority of the British media is controlled by a few very rich people who have their own agendas which don't necessarily line up with the Public Interest, and who can either remove opposition voices by denying them space (Starmer) or smear them (Corbyn) then the attacks on the supposedly impartial outlets such as the BBC are amplified.
I read on Twitter yesterday a retired senior Foreign Office Civil Servant who says that in his opinion it is unlikely that the next General Election will happen. Just to be clear: all of the above mean that the Government could ensure that it doesn't. You read it here first. You won't read it in the papers.
I've been banging on about many of these issues for ages on here (and elsewhere) and warning that the Government was effectively passing an Enabling Act, but most people just shrug.
All the checks and balances have been undermined. |
Perfect traits of all ‘banana republics’ (if that term is allowed nowadays) |  | | |
| Are these the dying days of democracy on 19:18 - Dec 8 with 1235 views | You_Bloo_Right |
| Are these the dying days of democracy on 12:12 - Dec 8 by ElephantintheRoom |
Depends what you define as democracy. 44% of the electorate voted for this shower - ie 56% wanted anything but and are told that this landslide of 44% is a mandate for the people
You'll go back a long way before you find a government that was actually voted for by the majority of the Bitish people - though a golden opportunity was tossed away by the majority in opposition before the last election who could have formed a government of national unity |
Point of order (which I believe just emphasises your point).
44% of a 67% turnout; so approximately 29% of the electorate. |  |
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| Are these the dying days of democracy on 20:44 - Dec 8 with 1140 views | Ryorry |
| Are these the dying days of democracy on 16:40 - Dec 8 by ArnoldMoorhen |
With respect, you have actually missed the big ones which would totally back up your thread title:
Proroguing of Parliament.
The removal of many anti-Brexit Tory MPs by deselecting them by text prior to the last General Election. This eliminated their moderating voices from internal debate within the Party as well as sending a signal to others that any opposition was not an option.
Politicisation of the Police, including greatly increased powers.
Increase in scope of powers for Ministers to make laws/regulations without recourse to Parliament. Initially because of the "Brexit workload" but increased with Covid.
Introduction of policy and regulations at press conferences rather than through Parliament.
Removal of the right to protest.
The ability for the Home Secretary to remove citizenship without prior warning or due process.
Attacks on the RNLI (!!!!!!!!!!!!!) for not following Government policy.
Interference in Media: appointing lackeys to BBC board positions and changing remit of Ofcom.
Removal of powers of Courts to rule on Ministerial over-reach/declare Government decisions illegal.
Wanton disregard for International Law over Brexit, particularly regarding the legally binding nature of both The Good Friday Agreement and the Exit Treaty.
Gerrymandering of Constituency Boundaries.
When you add in all of the freedoms and protections that the British public gave up voluntarily through voting to "Get Brexit Done" at the last General Election, it is staggering how quickly we have moved from a democracy with quirks and historic faults to, but where we give consent to be governed, to a system where the Government now gives us consent, or not, to quite basic freedoms.
When you add in the fact that the majority of the British media is controlled by a few very rich people who have their own agendas which don't necessarily line up with the Public Interest, and who can either remove opposition voices by denying them space (Starmer) or smear them (Corbyn) then the attacks on the supposedly impartial outlets such as the BBC are amplified.
I read on Twitter yesterday a retired senior Foreign Office Civil Servant who says that in his opinion it is unlikely that the next General Election will happen. Just to be clear: all of the above mean that the Government could ensure that it doesn't. You read it here first. You won't read it in the papers.
I've been banging on about many of these issues for ages on here (and elsewhere) and warning that the Government was effectively passing an Enabling Act, but most people just shrug.
All the checks and balances have been undermined. |
This was always the #1 reason for voting Remain. Whilst still in the EU, we had some protection - in its laws, regs & standards of everything from food standards & environment to employment & human rights.
Anyone with half a brain only had to spend one minute imagining what a tory govt. would do if they were freed from those restrictions. Seems 52% of the population don't have even half a brain and/or weren't prepared to spend even one minute imagining the scenario for themselves. | |
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