| Bloody Sunday Prosecutions 19:54 - Mar 14 with 3630 views | Crawfordsboot |
Whilst I believe that individuals, both military or civilian, guilty of crimes in the context of the troubles should be prosecuted I am uncomfortable with the prosecution of a soldier when many members of the IRA , who are believed to have committed acts of terrorism, are not being prosecuted, or have been granted early release in the interest of reaching a settlement and end to the troubles.
How can it be right to prosecute one side but not the other.
It might leave a bitter taste not to pursue prosecutions but to pursue one side but not those on the other side, who it is thought were responsible for more deaths, is surely not acceptable.
On the other hand if there is to be a prosecution shouldn’t it be the commanding officers in the dock not the foot soldiers. |  | | |  |
| Bloody Sunday Prosecutions on 16:17 - Mar 15 with 1213 views | Clapham_Junction |
One thing that I think is being overlooked here is that this is a prosecution, not a guilty verdict.
The court case will look at the facts and the situation the soldiers were put in. If it is found that the soldiers were in an impossible situation and were not individually at fault, then the verdict should come out that way. If it turns out the soldiers shot people that they knew were not a threat, then hopefully it will come out the other.
It's important in a functioning democracy that army personnel should be subject to the rule of law, in the same way that the police and any other public service that is able to use force are. It does seem unfair that IRA and UDA personnel are not being chased in the same way, but on the other hand, I think it's important to hold what are public servants being paid and taking orders from the state to a higher standard of accountability. |  | | |
| Bloody Sunday Prosecutions on 21:46 - Mar 15 with 1159 views | bluejacko |
| Bloody Sunday Prosecutions on 13:43 - Mar 15 by GeoffSentence |
Wasn't it their ID cards said that they were based in Hertford, and the IRA took that as Hereford and assumed they were SAS. |
Where you were based was never on your ID card,at one time even your religion was not on it, just photo name rank and number.
And to all of you that have never stood and Be pelted with bricks,fire bombs etc from ‘British’ citizens believe me you really don’t have a bloody clue about what is was like over there! | | | |
| Bloody Sunday Prosecutions on 23:09 - Mar 15 with 1128 views | Eireannach_gorm |
| Bloody Sunday Prosecutions on 21:46 - Mar 15 by bluejacko |
Where you were based was never on your ID card,at one time even your religion was not on it, just photo name rank and number.
And to all of you that have never stood and Be pelted with bricks,fire bombs etc from ‘British’ citizens believe me you really don’t have a bloody clue about what is was like over there! |
Had you ever considered that they didn't feel that they were British citizens and that the army was an oppressive force? You clearly were the recipient of this opposition to annihilation .
A little bit of context for you.
https://www.rte.ie/archives/exhibitions/1042-northern-ireland-1969/1048-august-1 |  | | |
| Bloody Sunday Prosecutions on 23:17 - Mar 15 with 1113 views | footers |
This is why I really can't get in to this too much. Many of my family have been caught up in various ways by 'The Troubles'. Often lethally.
While I thank others for their views, this is an extremely sore point for me.
But cheers for trying to educate me, you've obviously missed my sarcasm.
Edit: Not talking to you Gorm! Just other posters on this thread, apologies for any confusion :) [Post edited 15 Mar 23:27]
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| Bloody Sunday Prosecutions on 00:21 - Mar 16 with 1022 views | footers |
Edit: Been deleted now (Thanks Gav or whoever) but let me put on record my absolute fcking disgust for your comment/views Oxford.
You're scum. | |
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| Bloody Sunday Prosecutions on 00:31 - Mar 16 with 1023 views | SpruceMoose |
| Bloody Sunday Prosecutions on 00:21 - Mar 16 by footers |
Edit: Been deleted now (Thanks Gav or whoever) but let me put on record my absolute fcking disgust for your comment/views Oxford.
You're scum. |
I've seen a lot of lines crossed on this forum. I'm a big fan of crossing them myself. But that post was something else. |  |
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| Bloody Sunday Prosecutions on 07:46 - Mar 16 with 975 views | crunchie1978 |
| Bloody Sunday Prosecutions on 21:05 - Mar 14 by Lord_Lucan |
Unless you were there on that day or have served in a conflict situation I think it is impossible to comment - so I won’t. |
Wholeheartedly agree with you there Lord lucan.
I think the main issue is that if a guilty verdict is handed down it sets a precedent.
Front line personal in future conflicts might then think twice about discharging their weapon in a situation they deem as being a mortal threat.
And it could also have a knock on effect in terms of future recruitment to our armed forces.
But on the other hand you must take into account the victims and their aggrieved families.
It is a tricky one. | | | |
| Bloody Sunday Prosecutions on 07:55 - Mar 16 with 971 views | christiand |
Completely agree! | |
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| Bloody Sunday Prosecutions on 08:37 - Mar 16 with 946 views | bluejacko |
How are they going to prove that it was soldier F?
Ballistics? His rifle is long gone even if they could find individual rounds fired.
Video evidence? Not even thought of then.
How can they prove who he had in his sight picture at anyone time?
Unbiased statements? His mates are really going to drop him in it aren’t they.
With the amount of rounds fired that day who really can say who shot who. [Post edited 16 Mar 8:48]
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| Bloody Sunday Prosecutions on 09:27 - Mar 16 with 936 views | WestStanderLaLaLa |
| Bloody Sunday Prosecutions on 08:37 - Mar 16 by bluejacko |
How are they going to prove that it was soldier F?
Ballistics? His rifle is long gone even if they could find individual rounds fired.
Video evidence? Not even thought of then.
How can they prove who he had in his sight picture at anyone time?
Unbiased statements? His mates are really going to drop him in it aren’t they.
With the amount of rounds fired that day who really can say who shot who. [Post edited 16 Mar 8:48]
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Tests were undertaken at the time.
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| Bloody Sunday Prosecutions on 11:05 - Mar 16 with 909 views | bluejacko |
| Bloody Sunday Prosecutions on 09:27 - Mar 16 by WestStanderLaLaLa |
Tests were undertaken at the time.
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So are you saying that a whole battalion had their weapons taken off them and then try and match spent 7.62 rounds to a specific weapon.
When a 7.62 round hits someone it just does not stop like in the films it keeps on going until it hits something solid.
So I will still say they would not be able to match round with rifle.
There was one person who said his relation had been hit 14 times so square that circle,anybody hit with 7.62 that many times would be in very little pieces all over the place.
I am not trying to say that what happened was justified but having stood there taking dogs abuse and a hail of whatever is to hand it is only discipline that stops you reacting! | | | |
| Bloody Sunday Prosecutions on 11:31 - Mar 16 with 891 views | WeWereZombies |
| Bloody Sunday Prosecutions on 11:05 - Mar 16 by bluejacko |
So are you saying that a whole battalion had their weapons taken off them and then try and match spent 7.62 rounds to a specific weapon.
When a 7.62 round hits someone it just does not stop like in the films it keeps on going until it hits something solid.
So I will still say they would not be able to match round with rifle.
There was one person who said his relation had been hit 14 times so square that circle,anybody hit with 7.62 that many times would be in very little pieces all over the place.
I am not trying to say that what happened was justified but having stood there taking dogs abuse and a hail of whatever is to hand it is only discipline that stops you reacting! |
So are you saying that none of the protesters were hit fourteen times or that who was hit fourteen times was shot with something other than a 7.62? [Post edited 19 Mar 8:30]
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| Bloody Sunday Prosecutions on 12:44 - Mar 16 with 860 views | bluejacko |
| Bloody Sunday Prosecutions on 11:31 - Mar 16 by WeWereZombies |
So are you saying that none of the protesters were hit fourteen times or that who was hit fourteen times was shot with something other than a 7.62? [Post edited 19 Mar 8:30]
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The only other calibre of weapon that would have there was 9 ml in officers side arms so unless one of them walked up and emptied his magazine into him then I would say that if he was shot 14 times it would have been by rifle fire. If that indeed did happen then he would have had to be targeted by more than one rifleman to have that many wounds!
Soldier F would only of had 20 rounds of ammo issued to him so if he indeed murdered the 4 and wounded others he was a bloody good shot considering he would not have been standing still at the time!
Not making excuses but only seeing it as we would have done. | | | |
| Bloody Sunday Prosecutions on 14:12 - Mar 16 with 828 views | hampstead_blue |
| Bloody Sunday Prosecutions on 23:17 - Mar 15 by footers |
This is why I really can't get in to this too much. Many of my family have been caught up in various ways by 'The Troubles'. Often lethally.
While I thank others for their views, this is an extremely sore point for me.
But cheers for trying to educate me, you've obviously missed my sarcasm.
Edit: Not talking to you Gorm! Just other posters on this thread, apologies for any confusion :) [Post edited 15 Mar 23:27]
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It is sad to lose someone and whilst we disagree I do bear you no ill at all.
My view point is from the side of a soldier who worked in an incredibly dangerous role without much back-up and an inch away from the poo.
Go well. |  |
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| Bloody Sunday Prosecutions on 15:55 - Mar 16 with 780 views | eireblue |
| Bloody Sunday Prosecutions on 14:12 - Mar 16 by hampstead_blue |
It is sad to lose someone and whilst we disagree I do bear you no ill at all.
My view point is from the side of a soldier who worked in an incredibly dangerous role without much back-up and an inch away from the poo.
Go well. |
An ex-boss of mine served in NI, at the height of the troubles.
He had regrets at what he and others did whilst over there.
When he took early retirement he decide to move to NI, and that was before the GFA. |  | | |
| Bloody Sunday Prosecutions on 19:03 - Mar 16 with 741 views | WeWereZombies |
| Bloody Sunday Prosecutions on 12:44 - Mar 16 by bluejacko |
The only other calibre of weapon that would have there was 9 ml in officers side arms so unless one of them walked up and emptied his magazine into him then I would say that if he was shot 14 times it would have been by rifle fire. If that indeed did happen then he would have had to be targeted by more than one rifleman to have that many wounds!
Soldier F would only of had 20 rounds of ammo issued to him so if he indeed murdered the 4 and wounded others he was a bloody good shot considering he would not have been standing still at the time!
Not making excuses but only seeing it as we would have done. |
Thanks for that information, as you pointed out in an earlier post it is a tough one to dissemble all these years later. | |
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| Bloody Sunday Prosecutions on 19:10 - Mar 16 with 729 views | GeoffSentence |
| Bloody Sunday Prosecutions on 21:46 - Mar 15 by bluejacko |
Where you were based was never on your ID card,at one time even your religion was not on it, just photo name rank and number.
And to all of you that have never stood and Be pelted with bricks,fire bombs etc from ‘British’ citizens believe me you really don’t have a bloody clue about what is was like over there! |
Could have sworn that I saw a documentary where they reported the Hertford/Herford confusion. Not the first time I will have recalled something incorrectly. Memory like a sieve. |  |
| In the 38 games in which ALB played in goal for us, we averaged 1.53 points per game which, had they been over the course of a single season, would have seen us challenging for the play offs. This at a time when we were otherwise struggling against relegation.
Oh, and didn't Mick Mills have terrific posture. | | Poll: | Who has been our greatest Dane? |
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| Bloody Sunday Prosecutions on 19:30 - Mar 16 with 711 views | bluejacko |
| Bloody Sunday Prosecutions on 15:55 - Mar 16 by eireblue |
An ex-boss of mine served in NI, at the height of the troubles.
He had regrets at what he and others did whilst over there.
When he took early retirement he decide to move to NI, and that was before the GFA. |
It’s a pity I don’t know any of the terrorists who have any regrets over what they done isn’t it? | | | |
| Bloody Sunday Prosecutions on 20:22 - Mar 16 with 686 views | eireblue |
| Bloody Sunday Prosecutions on 19:30 - Mar 16 by bluejacko |
It’s a pity I don’t know any of the terrorists who have any regrets over what they done isn’t it? |
I wouldn't expect you to spend time looking out for terrorists expressing regret. That is of course totally understandable.
However, they do exist. | | | |
| Bloody Sunday Prosecutions on 10:35 - Mar 18 with 613 views | Oxford_Blue |
| Bloody Sunday Prosecutions on 00:21 - Mar 16 by footers |
Edit: Been deleted now (Thanks Gav or whoever) but let me put on record my absolute fcking disgust for your comment/views Oxford.
You're scum. |
Hi, I’ve just come back from being away and caught up and not clear what the vitriol is all about or why the post was deleted.
I can’t quite recall the exact words I used as they have been taken down.
I think my point was simply that sometimes for the greater good (ie long term peace in NI), difficult things have to be done such as the Good Friday agreement (releasing terrorists).
Not pursuing individuals (assuming they could be traced) in a very inflammatory situation might be worth the price, if it helps the bigger picture.
I can only apologise if this has caused offence but I’m a bit confused as to what the heinous crime is that justifies such vitriol. | | | |
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