| Weather heads up. 18:39 - Jul 9 with 12902 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
Forecast models are regularly showing up to 44°C for next weekend. Dangerous heat. |  |
| |  |
| Weather heads up. on 07:21 - Jul 12 with 1408 views | Steve_M |
| Weather heads up. on 22:36 - Jul 11 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Weather just got political.
A UKHSA spokesman said: "There's a possibility of a level four heatwave. If it gets above 40C, then it is likely to be a level four heatwave for the first time.
"I don't see how it couldn't be in those temperatures."
Such an emergency indicates that food supplies could be hit, as well as disruption on the roads and rail, the shutdown of classrooms and even nuclear power plants put out of action.
It would also “threaten the integrity of the health and social care system”.
Members of the public have been told not to make 999 calls "in emergencies only".
"Substantial changes in working practices and daily routines [are] likely to be required," said the Met Office, with the amber warning expected to be extended into Monday.
Unions called for employees to be allowed to work from home in the heat and to ditch jackets and ties.
Some Conservative MPs questioned the need for the national emergency and the resulting disruption.
Sir John Hayes, chairman of the Common Sense Group of Conservative MPs, said: "This is not a brave new world but a cowardly new world where we live in a country where we are frightened of the heat. It is not surprising that in snowflake Britain, the snowflakes are melting. Thankfully, most of us are not snowflakes. |
The 'Common Sense' group is even more of a misnomer than the word 'Research' in the ERG.
Dying of heatstroke is woke is one hell of a take. |  |
| |
| Weather heads up. on 07:28 - Jul 12 with 1386 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Weather heads up. on 07:21 - Jul 12 by Steve_M |
The 'Common Sense' group is even more of a misnomer than the word 'Research' in the ERG.
Dying of heatstroke is woke is one hell of a take. |
Perhaps Sir John will be available to cut Lucan's hedge. | |
| |
| Weather heads up. on 08:03 - Jul 12 with 1340 views | NthQldITFC |
| Weather heads up. on 20:49 - Jul 9 by jeera |
You are right to regularly mention this, as are others.
But it's at top level it needs to sink in and from whence it needs to be preached out loud.
Another category where we are lacking leadership.
The weather is so different to just a few years back it's like living in a different country to the one I knew much of the time. [Post edited 9 Jul 2022 21:17]
|
I do agree of course that government need to lead, but so many 'normal' people who are well aware of the science and of the scale and imminence of the problem seem to be trying to forget what is so obviously happening. Only through public pressure will our ridiculous short-term orientated leadership systems actually act rather than pretend to do so.
Essentially, we all need to be picked up, shaken and made to stop pretending and face up to the situation no matter how scary it is, because whilst it is true to say that the Earth's ecosystems and us are very probably f--ked, there is always a tiny bit of hope that we might avert catastrophe somehow.
I find it really weird that there's relatively little CC debate on here and in other public forums these days. There's little denial now, which is great, but whilst people like António Guterres (who ought, theoretically, to be the leader of the world), Greta Thunberg and David Attenborough do everything they can to wake us up, and while people like George Monbiot show signs of starting to give up saying we're in the end game, most of us seem to be more concerned about whether we can take our children on a cheap flight to the UEA, than whether we're going to kill them in a collapsing world.
I just don't get it. |  |
| |
| Weather heads up. on 08:04 - Jul 12 with 1333 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Weather heads up. on 07:28 - Jul 12 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Perhaps Sir John will be available to cut Lucan's hedge. |
I haven’t received your tender. |  |
| |
| Weather heads up. on 08:24 - Jul 12 with 1326 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Weather heads up. on 08:04 - Jul 12 by Lord_Lucan |
I haven’t received your tender. |
Sorry LL but you're a little bit far away for hedge cutting and I have a very busy schedule for the next few weeks! | |
| |
| Weather heads up. on 08:28 - Jul 12 with 1307 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Weather heads up. on 08:03 - Jul 12 by NthQldITFC |
I do agree of course that government need to lead, but so many 'normal' people who are well aware of the science and of the scale and imminence of the problem seem to be trying to forget what is so obviously happening. Only through public pressure will our ridiculous short-term orientated leadership systems actually act rather than pretend to do so.
Essentially, we all need to be picked up, shaken and made to stop pretending and face up to the situation no matter how scary it is, because whilst it is true to say that the Earth's ecosystems and us are very probably f--ked, there is always a tiny bit of hope that we might avert catastrophe somehow.
I find it really weird that there's relatively little CC debate on here and in other public forums these days. There's little denial now, which is great, but whilst people like António Guterres (who ought, theoretically, to be the leader of the world), Greta Thunberg and David Attenborough do everything they can to wake us up, and while people like George Monbiot show signs of starting to give up saying we're in the end game, most of us seem to be more concerned about whether we can take our children on a cheap flight to the UEA, than whether we're going to kill them in a collapsing world.
I just don't get it. |
Does this really need saying again and again and......
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jul/11/humans-value-nature-survive-
Also who flies to Norwich to go to Uni....luckily Junior was not impressed and will be more long haul. | |
| |
| Weather heads up. on 09:08 - Jul 12 with 1281 views | NthQldITFC |
Yes it does.
"Are you the United Emirates of Arabia?"
"F*** off!, we're the United Arab Emirates!" | |
| |
| Weather heads up. on 09:21 - Jul 12 with 1268 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Weather heads up. on 09:08 - Jul 12 by NthQldITFC |
Yes it does.
"Are you the United Emirates of Arabia?"
"F*** off!, we're the United Arab Emirates!" |
If only peope had listened about 20 years ago. | |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Weather heads up. on 10:19 - Jul 12 with 1222 views | CoachRob |
| Weather heads up. on 08:03 - Jul 12 by NthQldITFC |
I do agree of course that government need to lead, but so many 'normal' people who are well aware of the science and of the scale and imminence of the problem seem to be trying to forget what is so obviously happening. Only through public pressure will our ridiculous short-term orientated leadership systems actually act rather than pretend to do so.
Essentially, we all need to be picked up, shaken and made to stop pretending and face up to the situation no matter how scary it is, because whilst it is true to say that the Earth's ecosystems and us are very probably f--ked, there is always a tiny bit of hope that we might avert catastrophe somehow.
I find it really weird that there's relatively little CC debate on here and in other public forums these days. There's little denial now, which is great, but whilst people like António Guterres (who ought, theoretically, to be the leader of the world), Greta Thunberg and David Attenborough do everything they can to wake us up, and while people like George Monbiot show signs of starting to give up saying we're in the end game, most of us seem to be more concerned about whether we can take our children on a cheap flight to the UEA, than whether we're going to kill them in a collapsing world.
I just don't get it. |
I guess the fact there is so little debate is a form of denialism. I struggle with the whole free will/agency thing, some physics has to be applied to the way we view civilisation. We see people pushing hot swap (fossil fuels for renewables) as an answer and degrowth theorists arguing for some form of homeostasis, but do large, complex systems like our civilisation actually work like this?
Buckminster Fuller coined the term 'energy slaves' and as I see, unless this free will/agency thing is going to make us forget the flame, we will continue to add energy slaves until the potential energy is degraded to a point where we collapse. It would be nice if we spent some of our energy slaves bounty on building resilience for the coming decades but as you say we will probably just waste it.
It would be nice to have more discussion but many seem paralysed in fear of saying the wrong thing or adhering to some nonsense a politician or media personality has spouted. Anti-science and their weapon of 'critical thinking' seems to have convinced many that everything will be okay or we are totally doomed and shouldn't bother - we should but don't expect any pathway to be very pleasant on the human condition.
Let me leave you with commonsenseDave who would make a terrific economist.
|  | | |
| Weather heads up. on 10:25 - Jul 12 with 1194 views | Darth_Koont |
| Weather heads up. on 08:03 - Jul 12 by NthQldITFC |
I do agree of course that government need to lead, but so many 'normal' people who are well aware of the science and of the scale and imminence of the problem seem to be trying to forget what is so obviously happening. Only through public pressure will our ridiculous short-term orientated leadership systems actually act rather than pretend to do so.
Essentially, we all need to be picked up, shaken and made to stop pretending and face up to the situation no matter how scary it is, because whilst it is true to say that the Earth's ecosystems and us are very probably f--ked, there is always a tiny bit of hope that we might avert catastrophe somehow.
I find it really weird that there's relatively little CC debate on here and in other public forums these days. There's little denial now, which is great, but whilst people like António Guterres (who ought, theoretically, to be the leader of the world), Greta Thunberg and David Attenborough do everything they can to wake us up, and while people like George Monbiot show signs of starting to give up saying we're in the end game, most of us seem to be more concerned about whether we can take our children on a cheap flight to the UEA, than whether we're going to kill them in a collapsing world.
I just don't get it. |
"Essentially, we all need to be picked up, shaken and made to stop pretending and face up to the situation no matter how scary it is."
Well said. Unfortunately, it's human nature to be in denial about bad things happening now and in the past, let alone in the future.
We need real leadership on actual issues. And there's no greater issue than climate change currently. The pandemic is really nothing in comparison but it showed we can focus as a country and as a world. |  |
| |
| Weather heads up. on 10:30 - Jul 12 with 1179 views | NthQldITFC |
| Weather heads up. on 10:19 - Jul 12 by CoachRob |
I guess the fact there is so little debate is a form of denialism. I struggle with the whole free will/agency thing, some physics has to be applied to the way we view civilisation. We see people pushing hot swap (fossil fuels for renewables) as an answer and degrowth theorists arguing for some form of homeostasis, but do large, complex systems like our civilisation actually work like this?
Buckminster Fuller coined the term 'energy slaves' and as I see, unless this free will/agency thing is going to make us forget the flame, we will continue to add energy slaves until the potential energy is degraded to a point where we collapse. It would be nice if we spent some of our energy slaves bounty on building resilience for the coming decades but as you say we will probably just waste it.
It would be nice to have more discussion but many seem paralysed in fear of saying the wrong thing or adhering to some nonsense a politician or media personality has spouted. Anti-science and their weapon of 'critical thinking' seems to have convinced many that everything will be okay or we are totally doomed and shouldn't bother - we should but don't expect any pathway to be very pleasant on the human condition.
Let me leave you with commonsenseDave who would make a terrific economist.
|
Thanks for a new reading topic,'energy slaves'. I'm getting some funny results back from my search engine though! | |
| |
| Weather heads up. on 10:37 - Jul 12 with 1152 views | NthQldITFC |
| Weather heads up. on 10:25 - Jul 12 by Darth_Koont |
"Essentially, we all need to be picked up, shaken and made to stop pretending and face up to the situation no matter how scary it is."
Well said. Unfortunately, it's human nature to be in denial about bad things happening now and in the past, let alone in the future.
We need real leadership on actual issues. And there's no greater issue than climate change currently. The pandemic is really nothing in comparison but it showed we can focus as a country and as a world. |
I suspect I'm not in the middle of the personality spectrum if you know what I mean, although I'm not a diagnosed anything, but I really struggle to understand the denial thing. It doesn't make any sense to me, because in my world there's always a part of you that can see the reality, and if you surrender to the denialist part the unhappiness doesn't go away, you still know the problem is there. Better for all parts of you to face the reality with courage and do what can be done to try to make it better.
If enough of the electorate come out of denial, we can theoretically make the governing types react, even if that means radical changes to wealth distribution and value systems. | |
| |
| Weather heads up. on 10:45 - Jul 12 with 1137 views | Darth_Koont |
| Weather heads up. on 10:37 - Jul 12 by NthQldITFC |
I suspect I'm not in the middle of the personality spectrum if you know what I mean, although I'm not a diagnosed anything, but I really struggle to understand the denial thing. It doesn't make any sense to me, because in my world there's always a part of you that can see the reality, and if you surrender to the denialist part the unhappiness doesn't go away, you still know the problem is there. Better for all parts of you to face the reality with courage and do what can be done to try to make it better.
If enough of the electorate come out of denial, we can theoretically make the governing types react, even if that means radical changes to wealth distribution and value systems. |
I think the denial is so that people can still look forward to a life of consumerism. But we need to be making sacrifices collectively and individually while certainly weaning ourselves off the worst consumption.
I think the world would be a much better place not just environmentally but socially too if we change the system for better results for all. That's evolution but mankind seems to be resting on its laurels a little there and is now pushing the individual and their ability to accumulate wealth as the driver.
That doesn't seem very smart or grounded in what we know about people, their wellbeing and happiness. | |
| |
| Weather heads up. on 10:57 - Jul 12 with 1106 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Weather heads up. on 08:24 - Jul 12 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Sorry LL but you're a little bit far away for hedge cutting and I have a very busy schedule for the next few weeks! |
 | |
| |
| Weather heads up. on 11:13 - Jul 12 with 1083 views | lowhouseblue |
| Weather heads up. on 08:03 - Jul 12 by NthQldITFC |
I do agree of course that government need to lead, but so many 'normal' people who are well aware of the science and of the scale and imminence of the problem seem to be trying to forget what is so obviously happening. Only through public pressure will our ridiculous short-term orientated leadership systems actually act rather than pretend to do so.
Essentially, we all need to be picked up, shaken and made to stop pretending and face up to the situation no matter how scary it is, because whilst it is true to say that the Earth's ecosystems and us are very probably f--ked, there is always a tiny bit of hope that we might avert catastrophe somehow.
I find it really weird that there's relatively little CC debate on here and in other public forums these days. There's little denial now, which is great, but whilst people like António Guterres (who ought, theoretically, to be the leader of the world), Greta Thunberg and David Attenborough do everything they can to wake us up, and while people like George Monbiot show signs of starting to give up saying we're in the end game, most of us seem to be more concerned about whether we can take our children on a cheap flight to the UEA, than whether we're going to kill them in a collapsing world.
I just don't get it. |
the fact is that in terms of material stuff we can't continue to have what we currently have and we can't have all that our parents had. that is a phenomenally unattractive message and it's politically unpalatable. the technical fix arguments are an attempt to sweeten the pill, along with saying we have until 2050. but we need to consume less of everything which is energy intensive - from meat to foreign holidays - and a large proportion of the population either don't want to hear that or think it doesn't mean them now. the contortions people need to go through for, eg, flying not to be a moral issue are astonishing. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
| Weather heads up. on 11:25 - Jul 12 with 1055 views | Darth_Koont |
| Weather heads up. on 11:13 - Jul 12 by lowhouseblue |
the fact is that in terms of material stuff we can't continue to have what we currently have and we can't have all that our parents had. that is a phenomenally unattractive message and it's politically unpalatable. the technical fix arguments are an attempt to sweeten the pill, along with saying we have until 2050. but we need to consume less of everything which is energy intensive - from meat to foreign holidays - and a large proportion of the population either don't want to hear that or think it doesn't mean them now. the contortions people need to go through for, eg, flying not to be a moral issue are astonishing. |
Side point: We don't just have to consume less/emit less. We need to go much further and also remove historic carbon from the atmosphere.
I just expect the public debate to have an honest and rational core for something that threatens the existence of billions, let alone the natural catastrophe for millions of other species too.
We managed that serious debate for the pandemic largely and the nonsense was generally shouted down or ignored. We just need elected democratic representatives to take climate change seriously. | |
| |
| Weather heads up. on 11:34 - Jul 12 with 1028 views | lowhouseblue |
| Weather heads up. on 11:25 - Jul 12 by Darth_Koont |
Side point: We don't just have to consume less/emit less. We need to go much further and also remove historic carbon from the atmosphere.
I just expect the public debate to have an honest and rational core for something that threatens the existence of billions, let alone the natural catastrophe for millions of other species too.
We managed that serious debate for the pandemic largely and the nonsense was generally shouted down or ignored. We just need elected democratic representatives to take climate change seriously. |
to have negative net carbon involves people consuming a great deal less.
initially the pandemic was perceived as an immediate threat and the response was seen as short term. even that consensus started to fray after 2 years. a lot of people still rationalise climate change as something for the future and of course the required changes in behaviour are permanent. the change to life styles in the rich west need to be dramatic - a return in some ways to pre 2nd half of the C20th consumption. eg travelling to a different continent being something most people don't do or only do once in a life time. there is not yet the wide spread will for lots of people to change their life style and consumption that dramatically. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
| Weather heads up. on 11:42 - Jul 12 with 995 views | Darth_Koont |
| Weather heads up. on 11:34 - Jul 12 by lowhouseblue |
to have negative net carbon involves people consuming a great deal less.
initially the pandemic was perceived as an immediate threat and the response was seen as short term. even that consensus started to fray after 2 years. a lot of people still rationalise climate change as something for the future and of course the required changes in behaviour are permanent. the change to life styles in the rich west need to be dramatic - a return in some ways to pre 2nd half of the C20th consumption. eg travelling to a different continent being something most people don't do or only do once in a life time. there is not yet the wide spread will for lots of people to change their life style and consumption that dramatically. |
"a lot of people still rationalise climate change as something for the future"
Which it clearly isn't. Similarly people said they weren't going to vaccinate because they'd "take their chances" not understanding that it was more about preventing spread and protecting others. We need to explode myths like that for climate change.
My point about the fallacy or rather inadequacy of emitting less and getting to net zero is the same. We have to take a lot more carbon out of the atmosphere too. In fact that's much bigger than cutting annual emissions per se. | |
| |
| Weather heads up. on 11:53 - Jul 12 with 956 views | lowhouseblue |
| Weather heads up. on 11:42 - Jul 12 by Darth_Koont |
"a lot of people still rationalise climate change as something for the future"
Which it clearly isn't. Similarly people said they weren't going to vaccinate because they'd "take their chances" not understanding that it was more about preventing spread and protecting others. We need to explode myths like that for climate change.
My point about the fallacy or rather inadequacy of emitting less and getting to net zero is the same. We have to take a lot more carbon out of the atmosphere too. In fact that's much bigger than cutting annual emissions per se. |
yes, net. but believing that changing farming etc and planting trees negates the need for dramatic changes to consumption patterns in the rich west is just the latest version of the technical fix argument. of course we need to reactivate the soil and forests as carbon sinks but even that comes at a cost which has implications for what (in rich countries) we can sustainably consume. people who want to keep what they have, and indeed catch up with those who currently consume more, find all that a very unattractive prospect. no more weekend city breaks at £50 for a return ticket ... but everyone's entitled to that surely? | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
| Weather heads up. on 11:56 - Jul 12 with 943 views | Bogblue |
| Weather heads up. on 11:42 - Jul 12 by Darth_Koont |
"a lot of people still rationalise climate change as something for the future"
Which it clearly isn't. Similarly people said they weren't going to vaccinate because they'd "take their chances" not understanding that it was more about preventing spread and protecting others. We need to explode myths like that for climate change.
My point about the fallacy or rather inadequacy of emitting less and getting to net zero is the same. We have to take a lot more carbon out of the atmosphere too. In fact that's much bigger than cutting annual emissions per se. |
I think at the back of most humans' minds is blind faith (a form of denial) that humans will find tech answers to 'sort it all out'
Also human nature means most humans won't take it with the seriousness it deserves until it directly and disastrously affects them personally, like their homes being caught in floods or wildfires which they have to evacuate, and them being presented with direct evidence that this is down to cc |  | | |
| Weather heads up. on 12:09 - Jul 12 with 915 views | DanTheMan |
| Weather heads up. on 11:53 - Jul 12 by lowhouseblue |
yes, net. but believing that changing farming etc and planting trees negates the need for dramatic changes to consumption patterns in the rich west is just the latest version of the technical fix argument. of course we need to reactivate the soil and forests as carbon sinks but even that comes at a cost which has implications for what (in rich countries) we can sustainably consume. people who want to keep what they have, and indeed catch up with those who currently consume more, find all that a very unattractive prospect. no more weekend city breaks at £50 for a return ticket ... but everyone's entitled to that surely? |
I definitely agree that consumption patterns need to change, although would also point out aviation is a relatively small part of the equation, including non-tourist usages.
Something drastic has to happen though with our consumerism culture, and not just here but many countries. We'll feel it pretty bad though, being an island. |  |
| |
| Weather heads up. on 13:27 - Jul 12 with 822 views | Bent_double |
| Weather heads up. on 11:56 - Jul 12 by Bogblue |
I think at the back of most humans' minds is blind faith (a form of denial) that humans will find tech answers to 'sort it all out'
Also human nature means most humans won't take it with the seriousness it deserves until it directly and disastrously affects them personally, like their homes being caught in floods or wildfires which they have to evacuate, and them being presented with direct evidence that this is down to cc |
This is why I laugh when people get angry at protestors who glue themselves to roads to stop traffic, for example.
They get so angry at the inconsiderate protestors, stopping them from getting to work/the shops in their shiny motors, but what about in say 20 years time, when that road is blocked by storm debris or water from the latest floods, who are they going to get angry at then?
Hopefully themselves for being so selfish 20 years earlier...but I doubt it. |  |
| |
| Weather heads up. on 14:35 - Jul 13 with 619 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Weather heads up. on 11:53 - Jul 12 by lowhouseblue |
yes, net. but believing that changing farming etc and planting trees negates the need for dramatic changes to consumption patterns in the rich west is just the latest version of the technical fix argument. of course we need to reactivate the soil and forests as carbon sinks but even that comes at a cost which has implications for what (in rich countries) we can sustainably consume. people who want to keep what they have, and indeed catch up with those who currently consume more, find all that a very unattractive prospect. no more weekend city breaks at £50 for a return ticket ... but everyone's entitled to that surely? |
I think our leaders, celebs, Royals, billionaires have a responsibility to make more effort in terms of their own carbon outputs. Until people can see it, it comes across a bit “do as I say and not as I do”.
People see Biden arriving at COP with dozens of vehicles in a motorcade, Prince Charlie flying around in a helicopter, Wills flying to the Caribbean to wave at people that hate him, and Bezos going up in a rocket ‘for bantz’. It’s a little “we’re all in it together”.
None of this is a defence for ignorance, we all need to change our lifestyles, but these people should be leading the way in encouragement to get the sceptics and naysayers onside. | | | |
| Weather heads up. on 14:42 - Jul 13 with 606 views | N2_Blue |
| Weather heads up. on 14:35 - Jul 13 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
I think our leaders, celebs, Royals, billionaires have a responsibility to make more effort in terms of their own carbon outputs. Until people can see it, it comes across a bit “do as I say and not as I do”.
People see Biden arriving at COP with dozens of vehicles in a motorcade, Prince Charlie flying around in a helicopter, Wills flying to the Caribbean to wave at people that hate him, and Bezos going up in a rocket ‘for bantz’. It’s a little “we’re all in it together”.
None of this is a defence for ignorance, we all need to change our lifestyles, but these people should be leading the way in encouragement to get the sceptics and naysayers onside. |
Very good point
Not enough of the general populace are going to make individual sacrifices and changes to their ways whilst the wealthy and privileged carry on as they are. |  |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
