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London commuters.... 08:32 - Oct 17 with 6322 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

.....stressy lot aren't they?

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/extinction-rebellion-tube-disruption-l

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London commuters.... on 11:57 - Oct 17 with 852 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

London commuters.... on 11:48 - Oct 17 by lowhouseblue

and turn your heating settings down to 19 degrees.


19.... scorchio!

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London commuters.... on 12:28 - Oct 17 with 826 viewsGaryCooper

London commuters.... on 11:51 - Oct 17 by artsbossbeard

Where do you holiday, Gary?

And how do you get to your holiday destination?


I fly but only one return flight per year which is plenty, the airline industry is mass polluter and in many ways is completely unnecessary.
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London commuters.... on 13:05 - Oct 17 with 791 viewsSwansea_Blue

London commuters.... on 10:33 - Oct 17 by Guthrum

That bit is about perceptions, not necessarily reality. I'd imagine there are quite a lot of commuters who care about the environment, too.

Edited to improve clarity.
[Post edited 17 Oct 10:34]


Ah, I'm with you now

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London commuters.... on 13:34 - Oct 17 with 767 viewsBluesquid

Not good alienating the very people that you are trying to win over, this could really back fire and work against them but saying that half of them are probably undercover plod anyway.*

*A joke, based on the fact that the UK police have in the past infiltrated protest groups, taken fake identities from dead children, had relationships with campaigners and fathered children while undercover.
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London commuters.... on 13:43 - Oct 17 with 751 viewsC_HealyIsAPleasure

London commuters.... on 09:58 - Oct 17 by Swansea_Blue

It does seem counterintuitive, although there are a lot of assumption about what XR are trying to do. Their only aim is to affect change at government level, not win over the public (they do state they want to mobilise 3.5% of the public in carrying out action, but that's as far as it goes).

General disruption will get the attention of the government. It won't win them friends, but then I suspect the ones wanting to kick the crap out of them would never be sympathetic to their cause anyway.


That seems somewhat short-sighted, given that meaningful change is more likely to be enacted if more people are onside. Obviously it’s difficult to make noise without causing some disruption but this just seems to have had the opposite effect as the general reaction seems to be that the choice of target is stupid

Also whilst significant changes at government level may be the aim, that remains some way off realistically. Therefore the focus should also be on encouraging smaller changes where feasible - with the use of public transport being absolutely the sort of thing these groups should be encouraging IMO, which this flies completely in the face of

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London commuters.... on 13:46 - Oct 17 with 743 viewsC_HealyIsAPleasure

London commuters.... on 10:11 - Oct 17 by factual_blue

The key thing I learnt about work is that 100% of people in 99.9% of jobs are doing stuff that is of no significance or importance whatsoever.


Completely agree, but also completely irrelevant to this discussion

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London commuters.... on 13:47 - Oct 17 with 747 viewsZedRodgers

I'd feel more comfortable questioning the tactics of XR here if it wasn't for the fact that they were attacked. Commuters (probably a lot of which are paid by the hour) using a relatively sustainable form of transport shouldn't be the prime target.

However, the footage will be / is being used by right wing online personalities to sneer and stir up resentment towards the worthy cause that's behind this protest. For that reason they have my support however naive this particular incident may have been.

No, not at the moment

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London commuters.... on 14:01 - Oct 17 with 725 viewsStokieBlue

London commuters.... on 13:47 - Oct 17 by ZedRodgers

I'd feel more comfortable questioning the tactics of XR here if it wasn't for the fact that they were attacked. Commuters (probably a lot of which are paid by the hour) using a relatively sustainable form of transport shouldn't be the prime target.

However, the footage will be / is being used by right wing online personalities to sneer and stir up resentment towards the worthy cause that's behind this protest. For that reason they have my support however naive this particular incident may have been.


It seems it wasn't actually sanctioned by XR:

"Other members of XR distanced themselves from the action which, it was explained, was autonomously taken by a number of groups within the movement.

The results of an internal poll of XR members, shared with the Guardian, showed 72% opposed action on London’s underground network under any circumstances."


SB

“You may not feel outstandingly robust, but if you are an average-sized adult you will contain within your modest frame no less than 7 X 10^18 joules of potential energy—enough to explode with the force of thirty very large hydrogen bombs, assuming you knew how to liberate it and really wished to make a point."

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London commuters.... on 14:06 - Oct 17 with 710 viewsGuthrum

London commuters.... on 11:05 - Oct 17 by BackToRussia

That's fine, it'd be easy to thrash out a fair law. Those who can prove they directly use their vehicle for work (and not just get to it) are exempt, but they'd be limited to use it only for work purposes.

Your second point is covered by my original statement that if you can show there is no public transport route then you can use a car.

Thirdly, would argue those people are practically disabled but yes, any disabled or infirm people would be given an exemption too. You're still looking at a huge reduction in number of car users.

Of course, public transport should be heavily expanded from its current state, new bus and train routes, and more regular services, so that it's actually possible to live without a car.


And the cost of public transport, which would need to be very heavily subsidised.

If the government create a "hostile environment" for car users, as they have done for immigrants, the disabled and those on benefits, then it will be practically impossible to get an exemption. I can't afford to wait six weeks and make repeated appeals in order to continue trading. In short, I don't trust the government not to make a balls-up of this as well.

Good Lord! Whatever is it?
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London commuters.... on 14:19 - Oct 17 with 700 viewsBluesquid

London commuters.... on 14:01 - Oct 17 by StokieBlue

It seems it wasn't actually sanctioned by XR:

"Other members of XR distanced themselves from the action which, it was explained, was autonomously taken by a number of groups within the movement.

The results of an internal poll of XR members, shared with the Guardian, showed 72% opposed action on London’s underground network under any circumstances."


SB


That's very interesting, groups within the movement carrying out actions independently that are at odds with the large majority of XR members and that will ultimately damage the movements reputation.

Wonder who these groups are?
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London commuters.... on 14:22 - Oct 17 with 686 viewsStokieBlue

London commuters.... on 14:19 - Oct 17 by Bluesquid

That's very interesting, groups within the movement carrying out actions independently that are at odds with the large majority of XR members and that will ultimately damage the movements reputation.

Wonder who these groups are?


It's clear the conclusion you are trying to make people draw but you'll need more evidence than historical police misdemeanors. I am sure when it was mooted that trouble-makers in HK could be agents of the Chinese government (as some protesters were claiming) it was dismissed.

It's worth pointing out that 28% of the groups members supported action against transportation and the underground so not entirely unrealistic to believe they just went ahead and did their own thing if they felt they were right.

SB

“You may not feel outstandingly robust, but if you are an average-sized adult you will contain within your modest frame no less than 7 X 10^18 joules of potential energy—enough to explode with the force of thirty very large hydrogen bombs, assuming you knew how to liberate it and really wished to make a point."

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London commuters.... on 14:26 - Oct 17 with 669 viewsGuthrum

London commuters.... on 14:19 - Oct 17 by Bluesquid

That's very interesting, groups within the movement carrying out actions independently that are at odds with the large majority of XR members and that will ultimately damage the movements reputation.

Wonder who these groups are?


Fanatics. Of which every protest/revolutionary/political/religious movement has its share. Convinced they are right, they just act.

Just as likely as agents provocateurs.

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London commuters.... on 14:26 - Oct 17 with 667 viewsBackToRussia

London commuters.... on 14:06 - Oct 17 by Guthrum

And the cost of public transport, which would need to be very heavily subsidised.

If the government create a "hostile environment" for car users, as they have done for immigrants, the disabled and those on benefits, then it will be practically impossible to get an exemption. I can't afford to wait six weeks and make repeated appeals in order to continue trading. In short, I don't trust the government not to make a balls-up of this as well.


Another reason to vote Labour or Green.

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London commuters.... on 14:28 - Oct 17 with 655 viewsBackToRussia

London commuters.... on 14:19 - Oct 17 by Bluesquid

That's very interesting, groups within the movement carrying out actions independently that are at odds with the large majority of XR members and that will ultimately damage the movements reputation.

Wonder who these groups are?


Xr is a very wide ranging community of people. Some of it clearly takes a lot of central planning but what's to stop some nutter with an xr logo on his back gluing himself to a train?

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London commuters.... on 14:29 - Oct 17 with 647 viewsBluesquid

London commuters.... on 14:26 - Oct 17 by Guthrum

Fanatics. Of which every protest/revolutionary/political/religious movement has its share. Convinced they are right, they just act.

Just as likely as agents provocateurs.


Yes, just as likely but just as likely nonetheless.
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London commuters.... on 14:30 - Oct 17 with 643 viewsGaryCooper

London commuters.... on 14:19 - Oct 17 by Bluesquid

That's very interesting, groups within the movement carrying out actions independently that are at odds with the large majority of XR members and that will ultimately damage the movements reputation.

Wonder who these groups are?


The peoples front of XR? Or the popular peoples front of XR?
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London commuters.... on 14:33 - Oct 17 with 628 viewsBluesquid

London commuters.... on 14:28 - Oct 17 by BackToRussia

Xr is a very wide ranging community of people. Some of it clearly takes a lot of central planning but what's to stop some nutter with an xr logo on his back gluing himself to a train?


What's to stop someone having relationships with campaigners and fathering children while undercover?
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London commuters.... on 14:39 - Oct 17 with 606 viewsgiant_ullaa

London commuters.... on 14:33 - Oct 17 by Bluesquid

What's to stop someone having relationships with campaigners and fathering children while undercover?


You don;t have to look for for real XR who agree with the action - they're on this thread - much more likely than malicious infiltrators. From the video, it only took two protesters to make this happen afterall.

Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry.
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London commuters.... on 14:41 - Oct 17 with 603 viewsBackToRussia

London commuters.... on 14:33 - Oct 17 by Bluesquid

What's to stop someone having relationships with campaigners and fathering children while undercover?


Eh? I think undercover cops infiltrating protest groups are the lowest of the low, you won't find any argument from me there.

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London commuters.... on 19:06 - Oct 17 with 529 viewsjaykay

London commuters.... on 10:19 - Oct 17 by Swansea_Blue

No doubt under request from Patel or someone under her watch.

"The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power. . . . Power is not a means; it is an end . . . not power over things, but over men. . . . In our world there will be no emotions except fear, rage, triumph, and self-abasement. . . . There will be no loyalty, except loyalty toward the Party. There will be no love, except the love of Big Brother. . . . Always, at every moment, there will be the thrill of victory, the sensation of trampling on an enemy who is helpless. If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face forever."


what you have described is what the tories said would happen if you voted corbyn.
good job we got a tory government to stop this happening . oh wait
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London commuters.... on 07:39 - Oct 18 with 442 viewsStokieBlue

This is a pretty good summary of yesterday's events and the reasons for some of the anger and confrontations. Might be worth considering some of them Debtster rather than dismissing it with a hand wave as just some unconvinced city types.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/17/extinction-rebellion-canni

SB

“You may not feel outstandingly robust, but if you are an average-sized adult you will contain within your modest frame no less than 7 X 10^18 joules of potential energy—enough to explode with the force of thirty very large hydrogen bombs, assuming you knew how to liberate it and really wished to make a point."

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London commuters.... on 08:00 - Oct 18 with 422 viewsC_HealyIsAPleasure

London commuters.... on 07:39 - Oct 18 by StokieBlue

This is a pretty good summary of yesterday's events and the reasons for some of the anger and confrontations. Might be worth considering some of them Debtster rather than dismissing it with a hand wave as just some unconvinced city types.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/17/extinction-rebellion-canni

SB


Yeah, but why didn’t they just work from home?

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London commuters.... on 08:12 - Oct 18 with 406 viewsgiant_ullaa

London commuters.... on 07:39 - Oct 18 by StokieBlue

This is a pretty good summary of yesterday's events and the reasons for some of the anger and confrontations. Might be worth considering some of them Debtster rather than dismissing it with a hand wave as just some unconvinced city types.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/17/extinction-rebellion-canni

SB


Or the same point made in more agreeable lefty language : https://www.thecanary.co/discovery/analysis-discovery/2019/10/17/extinction-rebe

Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry.
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London commuters.... on 08:23 - Oct 18 with 402 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

London commuters.... on 07:39 - Oct 18 by StokieBlue

This is a pretty good summary of yesterday's events and the reasons for some of the anger and confrontations. Might be worth considering some of them Debtster rather than dismissing it with a hand wave as just some unconvinced city types.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/17/extinction-rebellion-canni

SB


The comment about the city relates to the DLR.....the more general point was about stressy commuters.....maybe some on here find their actions acceptable, this countryside potterer does not.

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London commuters.... on 08:27 - Oct 18 with 393 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

London commuters.... on 08:12 - Oct 18 by giant_ullaa

Or the same point made in more agreeable lefty language : https://www.thecanary.co/discovery/analysis-discovery/2019/10/17/extinction-rebe


Not a lot to disagree with there.....in fact the woolly middle class nature of XR is one I have made on here many times....people didn't like it!

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