| Ellen Bettley Smith on 15:35 - Sep 28 with 2542 views | BlueBadger |
'Jurors deliberated for three hours and two minutes before acquitting Ms Bettley-Smith, who struck Mr Atkinson three times with a baton after he was tasered to the ground by PC Benjamin Monk, who was jailed last year for manslaughter.' |  |
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| Ellen Bettley Smith on 15:51 - Sep 28 with 2459 views | homer_123 |
| Ellen Bettley Smith on 15:35 - Sep 28 by BlueBadger |
'Jurors deliberated for three hours and two minutes before acquitting Ms Bettley-Smith, who struck Mr Atkinson three times with a baton after he was tasered to the ground by PC Benjamin Monk, who was jailed last year for manslaughter.' |
Let me kick you whilst you are down.... |  |
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| Ellen Bettley Smith on 16:15 - Sep 28 with 2372 views | leitrimblue |
Some of those that work forces.... |  | | |
| Ellen Bettley Smith on 16:21 - Sep 28 with 2337 views | nshearman1 |
Outrageous |  | | |
| Ellen Bettley Smith on 17:01 - Sep 28 with 2244 views | ArnieM |
I’ve just read the report through snd you’re allowed to use “ reasonable force”, if you truly believe your life is at risk, and that force must be “proportionate” to the risk you face .
It’s a very difficult one to decide really isn’t it. The jury have go to decide on many factors. The defendants state of mind, the “ attackers frame of mind and the nature and duration of the force used to repel your perceived threat. You also have to consider her size/ frame to that if DA and his documented rage at that time. The jury are making a judgement in the cold light of day whereas the actions took place under very different circumstances. Again not easy.
I always remember that Norfolk farmer ( Tony Martin?) who got done for shooting a block who broke in and attempted a robbery in his remote farmhouse . He got done for using unreasonable force …. He shot the intruder because he feared for his life which might have been deemed reasonable force, but they gif him on the fact he shot the guy in the back as the robber was running away …. [Post edited 28 Sep 2022 17:13]
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| Ellen Bettley Smith on 17:06 - Sep 28 with 2214 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Ellen Bettley Smith on 17:01 - Sep 28 by ArnieM |
I’ve just read the report through snd you’re allowed to use “ reasonable force”, if you truly believe your life is at risk, and that force must be “proportionate” to the risk you face .
It’s a very difficult one to decide really isn’t it. The jury have go to decide on many factors. The defendants state of mind, the “ attackers frame of mind and the nature and duration of the force used to repel your perceived threat. You also have to consider her size/ frame to that if DA and his documented rage at that time. The jury are making a judgement in the cold light of day whereas the actions took place under very different circumstances. Again not easy.
I always remember that Norfolk farmer ( Tony Martin?) who got done for shooting a block who broke in and attempted a robbery in his remote farmhouse . He got done for using unreasonable force …. He shot the intruder because he feared for his life which might have been deemed reasonable force, but they gif him on the fact he shot the guy in the back as the robber was running away …. [Post edited 28 Sep 2022 17:13]
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Please read links before commenting. She was found not guilty of assault. |  |
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| Ellen Bettley Smith on 17:15 - Sep 28 with 2156 views | ArnieM |
| Ellen Bettley Smith on 17:06 - Sep 28 by Pinewoodblue |
Please read links before commenting. She was found not guilty of assault. |
Yes I saw that … but what have I just then said above ? | |
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| Ellen Bettley Smith on 17:18 - Sep 28 with 2136 views | BlueBadger |
| Ellen Bettley Smith on 17:15 - Sep 28 by ArnieM |
Yes I saw that … but what have I just then said above ? |
I appreciate that I'm not a professional police officer but I'm struggling to find a situation in which your life may be endangered by a bloke who's been floored by a taser which has been discharged for an illegally long length of time. [Post edited 28 Sep 2022 17:26]
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| Ellen Bettley Smith on 17:28 - Sep 28 with 2104 views | ArnieM |
| Ellen Bettley Smith on 17:18 - Sep 28 by BlueBadger |
I appreciate that I'm not a professional police officer but I'm struggling to find a situation in which your life may be endangered by a bloke who's been floored by a taser which has been discharged for an illegally long length of time. [Post edited 28 Sep 2022 17:26]
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Obviously I don’t know ( haven’t read), the history behind this very sad case. But all I can gather from what I have read, is DA appeared not to have disabled by the tasers he’d received … the arse hole officer then proceeded to kick Dallian’s head in and rightfully got a prison sentence ( I personally it should have been got double the time he got given). I got the impression the female officer was grappling with him on the floor whilst her colleague was putting the boot in. Which makes me think he was far from incapacitated at that point. Which is why she felt he was capable of getting up? I honestly don’t know. But it must have been a terrifying situation to be involved in . DA was literally off his head at that moment (toxicity ?) … but it was poorly handled and once again a black person loses their life when being “dealt with” by police . There had to be djnethjng wrong there surely? | |
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| Ellen Bettley Smith on 17:32 - Sep 28 with 2077 views | jayessess |
| Ellen Bettley Smith on 17:01 - Sep 28 by ArnieM |
I’ve just read the report through snd you’re allowed to use “ reasonable force”, if you truly believe your life is at risk, and that force must be “proportionate” to the risk you face .
It’s a very difficult one to decide really isn’t it. The jury have go to decide on many factors. The defendants state of mind, the “ attackers frame of mind and the nature and duration of the force used to repel your perceived threat. You also have to consider her size/ frame to that if DA and his documented rage at that time. The jury are making a judgement in the cold light of day whereas the actions took place under very different circumstances. Again not easy.
I always remember that Norfolk farmer ( Tony Martin?) who got done for shooting a block who broke in and attempted a robbery in his remote farmhouse . He got done for using unreasonable force …. He shot the intruder because he feared for his life which might have been deemed reasonable force, but they gif him on the fact he shot the guy in the back as the robber was running away …. [Post edited 28 Sep 2022 17:13]
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Just a formulation that's so vague and subjective that it makes it nigh impossible for any police brutality to ever be punished. |  |
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| Ellen Bettley Smith on 17:35 - Sep 28 with 2051 views | ArnieM |
| Ellen Bettley Smith on 17:32 - Sep 28 by jayessess |
Just a formulation that's so vague and subjective that it makes it nigh impossible for any police brutality to ever be punished. |
But that’s the problem a jury faces surely ? | |
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| Ellen Bettley Smith on 17:38 - Sep 28 with 2032 views | jeera |
| Ellen Bettley Smith on 17:18 - Sep 28 by BlueBadger |
I appreciate that I'm not a professional police officer but I'm struggling to find a situation in which your life may be endangered by a bloke who's been floored by a taser which has been discharged for an illegally long length of time. [Post edited 28 Sep 2022 17:26]
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I wasn't there and am reluctant to completely dismiss the findings that would have been heard in the courtroom...
But it's hard to imagine any scenario where it's considered appropriate for the police to beat a man when he is on the floor isn't it.
A notion reinforced by the fcking fact that he did actually die as a result of their actions. Or in her case maybe in part of her inaction.
In my mind it could be fairly asked why she didn't try to pull her own colleague off DA if he was stamping on his head. Surely part of her duty was to protect the member of the public who was being assaulted. |  |
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| Ellen Bettley Smith on 17:44 - Sep 28 with 1993 views | jayessess |
| Ellen Bettley Smith on 17:35 - Sep 28 by ArnieM |
But that’s the problem a jury faces surely ? |
It's a problem with a legal system that isn't really designed to hold police officers accountable.
Juries are a small part of that (juries tend to believe police officers, even when what they're hearing is something pretty implausible, like the claim that you feared for your life from an injured man on the ground). | |
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| Ellen Bettley Smith on 17:54 - Sep 28 with 1959 views | BlueBadger |
| Ellen Bettley Smith on 17:38 - Sep 28 by jeera |
I wasn't there and am reluctant to completely dismiss the findings that would have been heard in the courtroom...
But it's hard to imagine any scenario where it's considered appropriate for the police to beat a man when he is on the floor isn't it.
A notion reinforced by the fcking fact that he did actually die as a result of their actions. Or in her case maybe in part of her inaction.
In my mind it could be fairly asked why she didn't try to pull her own colleague off DA if he was stamping on his head. Surely part of her duty was to protect the member of the public who was being assaulted. |
Sorry, should have said 'a man with heart and kidney conditions'. | |
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| Ellen Bettley Smith on 18:03 - Sep 28 with 1937 views | ArnieM |
| Ellen Bettley Smith on 17:38 - Sep 28 by jeera |
I wasn't there and am reluctant to completely dismiss the findings that would have been heard in the courtroom...
But it's hard to imagine any scenario where it's considered appropriate for the police to beat a man when he is on the floor isn't it.
A notion reinforced by the fcking fact that he did actually die as a result of their actions. Or in her case maybe in part of her inaction.
In my mind it could be fairly asked why she didn't try to pull her own colleague off DA if he was stamping on his head. Surely part of her duty was to protect the member of the public who was being assaulted. |
Whilst I’m certainly not condoning the actions of these two police officers at all( I think it’s a disgrace that yet again a person dies from police actions, it’s happening far to often to be a one off isn’t it). A point you raised re her actions or inaction regarding her colleague who was kicking DA’s head in at the time she was belting him with a baton. The only thing that struck me about it all was the male officer was very experienced , whilst she was a rookie of 6/12 experience. I think It’d take some balls to question a senior officers actions during the incident, that he’s gone too far. Again we are judging in the cold light of day and not caught up in the undoubted high emotions ( adrenaline rush) of the moment. I do wonder if he’d have stopped even if she had said something though, as he seemed to have “ lost it”. | |
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| Ellen Bettley Smith on 18:06 - Sep 28 with 1917 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Ellen Bettley Smith on 17:38 - Sep 28 by jeera |
I wasn't there and am reluctant to completely dismiss the findings that would have been heard in the courtroom...
But it's hard to imagine any scenario where it's considered appropriate for the police to beat a man when he is on the floor isn't it.
A notion reinforced by the fcking fact that he did actually die as a result of their actions. Or in her case maybe in part of her inaction.
In my mind it could be fairly asked why she didn't try to pull her own colleague off DA if he was stamping on his head. Surely part of her duty was to protect the member of the public who was being assaulted. |
The inconsistency with Monk’s verdict sounds a bit odd too, but I don’t know whether it was him using the taser or kicking him that was the biggest contributor to his conviction. If the latter, you’ve got to wonder why the different outcomes.
She was only 6 months into her “full time” role too. I wonder if inexperience was a factor (although it’s not clear from that how many years non full time experience she had, if any.
Ah, I see Arnie’s covered these points. Ignore me! [Post edited 28 Sep 2022 18:16]
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| Ellen Bettley Smith on 18:10 - Sep 28 with 1898 views | jeera |
| Ellen Bettley Smith on 18:03 - Sep 28 by ArnieM |
Whilst I’m certainly not condoning the actions of these two police officers at all( I think it’s a disgrace that yet again a person dies from police actions, it’s happening far to often to be a one off isn’t it). A point you raised re her actions or inaction regarding her colleague who was kicking DA’s head in at the time she was belting him with a baton. The only thing that struck me about it all was the male officer was very experienced , whilst she was a rookie of 6/12 experience. I think It’d take some balls to question a senior officers actions during the incident, that he’s gone too far. Again we are judging in the cold light of day and not caught up in the undoubted high emotions ( adrenaline rush) of the moment. I do wonder if he’d have stopped even if she had said something though, as he seemed to have “ lost it”. |
I fully appreciate that police officers are human, but they are also supposed to be of a certain disposition to be employed in the first place.
You have to question the disposition of the two on the spot for the way they handled it. If members of the public behaved with such disregard for another's life they would both be in prison there's no doubt, especially as the accompanying office joined in with the assault.
So on one count I would ask how the recruiting process addresses disposition in individuals but also where in their training were they not taught to know when to step back and assess further before engaging in the way they did.
Not to mention the delay in the aftermath before getting help and the subsequent delay of treatment.
So much went against Dalian it feels he never stood a chance. [Post edited 28 Sep 2022 18:13]
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| Ellen Bettley Smith on 18:16 - Sep 28 with 1875 views | jeera |
| Ellen Bettley Smith on 18:06 - Sep 28 by Swansea_Blue |
The inconsistency with Monk’s verdict sounds a bit odd too, but I don’t know whether it was him using the taser or kicking him that was the biggest contributor to his conviction. If the latter, you’ve got to wonder why the different outcomes.
She was only 6 months into her “full time” role too. I wonder if inexperience was a factor (although it’s not clear from that how many years non full time experience she had, if any.
Ah, I see Arnie’s covered these points. Ignore me! [Post edited 28 Sep 2022 18:16]
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Not to mention emotion involved on a personal level.
They were sleeping together and her boyfriend was beating a man.
Would she have behaved differently if they were colleagues only?
It stinks mate. | |
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| Ellen Bettley Smith on 18:54 - Sep 28 with 1799 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Ellen Bettley Smith on 18:16 - Sep 28 by jeera |
Not to mention emotion involved on a personal level.
They were sleeping together and her boyfriend was beating a man.
Would she have behaved differently if they were colleagues only?
It stinks mate. |
Yeah, it does stink. Your comment saying it feels like everything went against him and he never had a chance is how I feel about it. Even his behaviour was a freak response to chemical changes in his body. He needed help, not tasering and beating. | |
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| Ellen Bettley Smith on 20:13 - Sep 28 with 1725 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Ellen Bettley Smith on 17:15 - Sep 28 by ArnieM |
Yes I saw that … but what have I just then said above ? |
I was responding to your original post which bore little resemblance to the edited version. | |
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| Ellen Bettley Smith on 20:30 - Sep 28 with 1694 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Ellen Bettley Smith on 17:18 - Sep 28 by BlueBadger |
I appreciate that I'm not a professional police officer but I'm struggling to find a situation in which your life may be endangered by a bloke who's been floored by a taser which has been discharged for an illegally long length of time. [Post edited 28 Sep 2022 17:26]
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..."tasered three times and kicked in the head at least twice"
Interesting that they seemingly took her fear into account - "I was terrified of Mr Atkinson getting up. I was terrified to even get close to him because I thought I would come to serious harm if he was to get up."
It seems disproportionate to use a baton on someone who has been tasered 3 times and kicked in the head twice. But I'm not a police officer, protecting the people, so what do I know? |  |
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| Ellen Bettley Smith on 22:09 - Sep 28 with 1574 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Ellen Bettley Smith on 17:54 - Sep 28 by BlueBadger |
Sorry, should have said 'a man with heart and kidney conditions'. |
You also missed out "fatally injured by being".
I suppose she feared for the life of her boyfriend who was the one who had just killed him.
I cannot process this.
I found it very hard to accept that the first jury could not come to a verdict, but this verdict defies comprehension. Either the prosecution didn't present the evidence well or there is something very important missing from all the reports on this.
There is one question I am left with. What happens next? Does Bettley-Smith return to duty? Will she be entitled to compensation even? I presume she has been suspended on full pay for the 6 years 1 month and 13 days that it has taken for "justice" to be served. |  |
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| Ellen Bettley Smith on 22:31 - Sep 28 with 1531 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Ellen Bettley Smith on 22:09 - Sep 28 by Nthsuffolkblue |
You also missed out "fatally injured by being".
I suppose she feared for the life of her boyfriend who was the one who had just killed him.
I cannot process this.
I found it very hard to accept that the first jury could not come to a verdict, but this verdict defies comprehension. Either the prosecution didn't present the evidence well or there is something very important missing from all the reports on this.
There is one question I am left with. What happens next? Does Bettley-Smith return to duty? Will she be entitled to compensation even? I presume she has been suspended on full pay for the 6 years 1 month and 13 days that it has taken for "justice" to be served. |
“I thought he was trying to get up to fight,” she told the court. “In my opinion he was trying to get up on to his hands and knees.
Bettley-Smith told her trial she was left “shaking from head to toe” and was sure she would have come to harm if Mr Atkinson had managed to get to his feet.
In a statement, the family of Mr Atkinson said: “Whilst we are disappointed in today’s verdict, it brings an end to legal processes which have lasted over six years.
“Not a day has gone by since Dalian’s death in August 2016 when we haven’t thought that if it hadn’t been for the actions of the police, he might still be with us now.”
“We analysed the sequence of baton strikes by Pc Bettley-Smith to Mr Atkinson’s body when he was lying on the ground after he had been tasered. After we presented our evidence to the Crown Prosecution Service it authorised the charge of actual bodily harm. It was important that the officer’s actions were brought before a court and the jury has now made its decision.
“I would again send my heartfelt condolences to Dalian’s family who have had to wait patiently for a long time for justice to fully take its course.”
“Dalian’s family and friends have suffered a devastating loss; this has been an extremely long and difficult journey and they have shown great dignity throughout. I again want to say to them that I am sincerely sorry and extend my apologies and heartfelt condolences.”
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newslondon/police-constable-who-hit-dalian-atkins | |
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| Ellen Bettley Smith on 22:40 - Sep 28 with 1510 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Ellen Bettley Smith on 17:32 - Sep 28 by jayessess |
Just a formulation that's so vague and subjective that it makes it nigh impossible for any police brutality to ever be punished. |
And yet one officer was convicted of manslaughter for repeatedly tasering him to death whilst he was still standing whilst another one has walked away not guilty for beating him with a baton while he lay on the ground afterwards.
I guess the jury viewed the 5 ft 5 in girlfriend probationary officer of 6 months armed with a baton differently to the large boyfriend of 14 years' experience armed with the taser. I guess the large unarmed black man they faced posed a greater threat to her even whilst laying on the ground. | |
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| Ellen Bettley Smith on 22:47 - Sep 28 with 1489 views | StevieH |
| Ellen Bettley Smith on 16:15 - Sep 28 by leitrimblue |
Some of those that work forces.... |
Didn’t mean the downvote. Fat fingers
It’s sad how relevant RATM are all these years later |  | | |
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