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Over the past few days two things have really jumped out at me from a wide variety of different articles and viewpoints from those that are pro guns and against them, US based or outside the US.
So ignoring the fact that American's seem to be blinded over this, I cannot get over the lack of logic once you take the two most repeated claims that I have seen by the pro gun lot at face value.
1) Taking away guns will not stop people being evil. They will still find a way. 2) Teachers should be armed to prevent schools being attacked.
The logical response to 1) seems to be that it will dramatically reduce these incidents though and save lives. That to me seems common sense but I get that they don't agree.
The logical response to 2) not just what about teachers that become stressed or pupils that might take guns from teachers, it's not even that most of these lunatics are carrying assault rifles and they suggest giving the teachers hand guns, but it's that the POLICE themselves did not go into the school to play hero. The people there to serve and protect did not go blazing in to save children from being shot, but teachers are supposed to? Okay then!
But let's assume you genuinely believe statement 1) and 2), as I say the two things I have seen repeated the most. If you honestly believe that teachers carrying guns will deter someone from going into a school to kill people, but you also believe that the person will find a way of doing evil if they really want to, then surely they just go elsewhere?
Which means they attack Hospitals. Where you repeat 1) and change 2) to doctors and nurses carry guns. Then that deters them so they go somewhere else and you arm the people there and so on and so on until everyone has a gun and you create more deaths from gun related issues than you'd ever possibly save by banning them!
I can't begin to understand their logic on guns (or that gun sales have apparently gone up this week!) but given so many of them seem to believe 1) and 2) how can people genuinely not see their logic through to 'so what would happen then'.
Utterly brainwashed.
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Now obviously we mostly agree Americans are not rational with guns but ... on 06:55 - May 27 with 1391 views
Now obviously we mostly agree Americans are not rational with guns but ... on 21:00 - May 26 by HARRY10
10 black people were killed a month back, 50 gay people a year or so ago... by crazed righties
unable to accept that others are different, and fired up by arsholes such as Trump
I can only wonder were the UK to have such inane gin laws as the US what the lies and hate peddled by Johnson and Farage would have led to
righties killed one MP, and another was killed by a religious nutter fired up by the same level of ignorance and hate
sadly, as long as their are righties wanting to believe such dangerous nonsense, they will be shysters all too willing to fill their silly heads
Ted Cruz was paid $445,000 to tell the incredibly thick that it is not only OK to own something, not seen anywhere else outside of Ukraine currently - but claims that the god thing says is is their right
Not sure why you are mentioning such small numbers? Unfortunately literally thousands of young men and killed by hand guns every year in metro cities over here.
[Post edited 27 May 2022 6:58]
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Now obviously we mostly agree Americans are not rational with guns but ... on 07:30 - May 27 with 1359 views
Now obviously we mostly agree Americans are not rational with guns but ... on 07:30 - May 27 by GlasgowBlue
The Sky News bloke had Ted Cruz on the rack and then he gave him an out by using the term “American exceptionalism”.
Before he did that Cruz had absolutely nowhere to go.
Agreed, he shouldn't have mentioned that. If he had kept probing on why it's only America this happens in, he would have had him bang to rights, but playing into nationalism with nationalists won't work.
Also, Ted Cruz is a scummy worm of a man who won't even defend his own family if it gives him political power.
Now obviously we mostly agree Americans are not rational with guns but ... on 16:12 - May 26 by Illinoisblue
Some on the right are suggesting that social media and video games are to blame. Others saying teachers should be armed and that schools should have only one door.
Now obviously we mostly agree Americans are not rational with guns but ... on 16:12 - May 26 by Illinoisblue
Some on the right are suggesting that social media and video games are to blame. Others saying teachers should be armed and that schools should have only one door.
This has been pointed out many times. The Gun nuts claim that the 'right to bear arms' is in the constitution and you can't change the constitution 'cos that's anti-amurcan. The Constitution WAS changed to add the clause of 'right to bear arms'. It's the 2nd AMENDMENT.
Don't believe a word I say. I'm only kidding. Or am I?
Now obviously we mostly agree Americans are not rational with guns but ... on 13:07 - May 27 by Oldsmoker
This has been pointed out many times. The Gun nuts claim that the 'right to bear arms' is in the constitution and you can't change the constitution 'cos that's anti-amurcan. The Constitution WAS changed to add the clause of 'right to bear arms'. It's the 2nd AMENDMENT.
It's almost as if the clue is in the name.
Also, can anyone find me anything that was the same in 1791, except maybe the air!
Over 200 years have passed and they don't think that it may not be fit for reinterpretation. I mean I guess guns haven't really progressed much since then. Still muskets and gunpowder I assume?
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Now obviously we mostly agree Americans are not rational with guns but ... on 13:34 - May 27 with 1257 views
Unfortunately it’s a sheer numbers game. There are over 400M legally registered firearms in the US. The genie is out of the bottle, the chances of a blanket gun ban and get every gun owner to give up said weapons is literally zero. However, watching this happen and doing nothing is utterly ridiculous. It might not even stop the next one but they could at least try. It shouldn’t be such a political issue but more a public safety issue. I’d start with the following
- Strict background checks - Ban gun shows - Ban semi automatic assault rifles - Incentive to turn in legally owned semi automatic weapons (before the law passes) - Raise purchase age to 25 - Tougher legislation on parents or guardians if their child is found in possession
Those would be my suggestions. The idea of making America gun free these days is fantasy so try and find some common ground and sensible policy. I mean machine guns are banned, so why not go down to the next levels. It’s a foreign concept to many but the culture is very different here, people do like to hunt etc and it isn’t just the whackjobs you lot all mention. The current president has a hunting rifle for example.
It would also be nice if people had the same energy for the absolute madness that is going on in America’s poorest communities every day with handguns at the the moment, they have reached 1990 levels in inner city America. Those families are getting tore up and losing loved ones as well. Much of which can be attributed to lack of community work, huge decline in police numbers and some rather interesting ultra progressive reform policy by the local Mayors and DAs.
Philadelphia had 600 homicides in 2021 (population 1.5M) Chicago had 842 homicides (population 3M)
[Post edited 27 May 2022 15:01]
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Now obviously we mostly agree Americans are not rational with guns but ... on 15:13 - May 27 with 1220 views
Now obviously we mostly agree Americans are not rational with guns but ... on 14:59 - May 27 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior
Unfortunately it’s a sheer numbers game. There are over 400M legally registered firearms in the US. The genie is out of the bottle, the chances of a blanket gun ban and get every gun owner to give up said weapons is literally zero. However, watching this happen and doing nothing is utterly ridiculous. It might not even stop the next one but they could at least try. It shouldn’t be such a political issue but more a public safety issue. I’d start with the following
- Strict background checks - Ban gun shows - Ban semi automatic assault rifles - Incentive to turn in legally owned semi automatic weapons (before the law passes) - Raise purchase age to 25 - Tougher legislation on parents or guardians if their child is found in possession
Those would be my suggestions. The idea of making America gun free these days is fantasy so try and find some common ground and sensible policy. I mean machine guns are banned, so why not go down to the next levels. It’s a foreign concept to many but the culture is very different here, people do like to hunt etc and it isn’t just the whackjobs you lot all mention. The current president has a hunting rifle for example.
It would also be nice if people had the same energy for the absolute madness that is going on in America’s poorest communities every day with handguns at the the moment, they have reached 1990 levels in inner city America. Those families are getting tore up and losing loved ones as well. Much of which can be attributed to lack of community work, huge decline in police numbers and some rather interesting ultra progressive reform policy by the local Mayors and DAs.
Philadelphia had 600 homicides in 2021 (population 1.5M) Chicago had 842 homicides (population 3M)
[Post edited 27 May 2022 15:01]
Seems sensible and you're obviously much closer to knowing the attitudes.
I mean even if you said to people that it's okay to have a handgun in your home to defend yourself, but this is limited to one gun (subject to routine spot checks to ensure it's kept safely away - like the TV licence check) and one rival per person purely for hunting and both these needed to be licenced and you were subject to strict checks etc.
You can only fire one at once to defend yourself or one to hunt. Nobody should be firing two guns at once! Again, when some people can't drink until 21 it's mind blowing that you can own a gun at 18!
As you alluded to, nobody is carrying a machine gun, so assault weapons should go as a start, gun shows too and get it down to being about, you are entitled to defend yourself on your own property when under fear of death / assault etc.
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Now obviously we mostly agree Americans are not rational with guns but ... on 16:33 - May 27 with 1193 views
I am a teacher in America (just outside Philadelphia). Arming me would be the worst idea ever. More likely to shoot myself in the foot or leave the gun in the bathroom by accident than do anything good
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Now obviously we mostly agree Americans are not rational with guns but ... on 16:40 - May 27 with 1186 views
Now obviously we mostly agree Americans are not rational with guns but ... on 11:33 - May 27 by DanTheMan
Agreed, he shouldn't have mentioned that. If he had kept probing on why it's only America this happens in, he would have had him bang to rights, but playing into nationalism with nationalists won't work.
Also, Ted Cruz is a scummy worm of a man who won't even defend his own family if it gives him political power.
Ted Cruz is now saying schools having too many doors in the problem, not people having access to powerful guns.
Also Trump did this yesterday at the NRA conference. A dance. After he had just read out the names of those who died.
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Now obviously we mostly agree Americans are not rational with guns but ... on 14:48 - May 28 with 1046 views
"No way to prevent this, says only nation where this regularly happens"
Meanwhile, Senator Ted Cruz-Missile has called for teachers to openly carry the Javelin anti-school intruder missile
He further condemned Democrats for mocking his demand that pupils should not only be issued with bullet proof jackets, but carry semi automatic rifles along with 50 rounds of ammunition.
"Putin has killed schoolchildren because they were not able to defend themselves. Where were the heavy machine guns in the nurseries ?"
A telling aside to this, is the requirement of those attending Trumps rant to leave their weaponry outside of the building. Clearly Trump doesn't trust his 'good ole boys' either.
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Now obviously we mostly agree Americans are not rational with guns but ... on 16:10 - May 28 with 1035 views
Now obviously we mostly agree Americans are not rational with guns but ... on 16:33 - May 27 by phillymark
I am a teacher in America (just outside Philadelphia). Arming me would be the worst idea ever. More likely to shoot myself in the foot or leave the gun in the bathroom by accident than do anything good
You make a very good point. Using firearms effectively is not an easy thing to do. Especially hand guns. It requires a lot of training and practice. Arming teachers sounds a really stupid idea to me.
From pew research.org:
‘Though they tend to get less public attention than gun-related murders, suicides have long accounted for the majority of U.S. gun deaths. In 2020, 54% of all gun-related deaths in the U.S. were suicides (24,292), while 43% were murders (19,384), according to the CDC. The remaining gun deaths that year were unintentional (535), involved law enforcement (611) or had undetermined circumstances (400).’ About 3.3m people died in the US in 2020 so gun related deaths amounted to about 1.5% of total deaths.
This reads like an advert for an NRA argument. It’s not meant to be. It’s just an interesting stats. My own view to gun crime is to remove guns. Make it illegal to possess one, bar work need. It’s never going to happen in the US and I can only see gun possession only increasing in this country, given the cutting of police numbers and curtailment of their ability to do their work.
[Post edited 28 May 2022 16:12]
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Now obviously we mostly agree Americans are not rational with guns but ... on 07:58 - Jun 9 with 922 views
Now obviously we mostly agree Americans are not rational with guns but ... on 16:10 - May 28 by Churchman
You make a very good point. Using firearms effectively is not an easy thing to do. Especially hand guns. It requires a lot of training and practice. Arming teachers sounds a really stupid idea to me.
From pew research.org:
‘Though they tend to get less public attention than gun-related murders, suicides have long accounted for the majority of U.S. gun deaths. In 2020, 54% of all gun-related deaths in the U.S. were suicides (24,292), while 43% were murders (19,384), according to the CDC. The remaining gun deaths that year were unintentional (535), involved law enforcement (611) or had undetermined circumstances (400).’ About 3.3m people died in the US in 2020 so gun related deaths amounted to about 1.5% of total deaths.
This reads like an advert for an NRA argument. It’s not meant to be. It’s just an interesting stats. My own view to gun crime is to remove guns. Make it illegal to possess one, bar work need. It’s never going to happen in the US and I can only see gun possession only increasing in this country, given the cutting of police numbers and curtailment of their ability to do their work.
[Post edited 28 May 2022 16:12]
Hearing the testimony of the 11 year old classmate who covered herself in her dead friends blood to appear dead almost brought me to tears last night. The testimony from the Dr who who detailed the horrific injuries including identifying one child by their trainers sickened me. The comments from the republican politician stating gun control laws do nothing other than remove "god given" 2A rights simply disgusted me.
Distortion becomes somehow pure in its wildness.
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Now obviously we mostly agree Americans are not rational with guns but ... on 08:23 - Jun 9 with 914 views
Sasha Baron Cohen had a good sketch in Who is America where it showed some delusional Americans thinking that to confront a 'bad man with a gun', you could have a 'good boy with a gun'. The boy could be as young as 4 years old lol.
America is so large and there's so many guns, that even if you managed to take 75% of guns out of circulation, there's still going to be shedloads available.
[Post edited 9 Jun 2022 8:26]
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Now obviously we mostly agree Americans are not rational with guns but ... on 10:15 - Jun 9 with 879 views
Now obviously we mostly agree Americans are not rational with guns but ... on 07:58 - Jun 9 by Whos_blue
Hearing the testimony of the 11 year old classmate who covered herself in her dead friends blood to appear dead almost brought me to tears last night. The testimony from the Dr who who detailed the horrific injuries including identifying one child by their trainers sickened me. The comments from the republican politician stating gun control laws do nothing other than remove "god given" 2A rights simply disgusted me.
More horrific was the doctors description of the wounds that that military grade weapons do to the human body ( and he is not against guns as he grew up on a farm ).
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Now obviously we mostly agree Americans are not rational with guns but ... on 11:00 - Jun 9 with 853 views
Now obviously we mostly agree Americans are not rational with guns but ... on 08:23 - Jun 9 by RobTheMonk
Sasha Baron Cohen had a good sketch in Who is America where it showed some delusional Americans thinking that to confront a 'bad man with a gun', you could have a 'good boy with a gun'. The boy could be as young as 4 years old lol.
America is so large and there's so many guns, that even if you managed to take 75% of guns out of circulation, there's still going to be shedloads available.
[Post edited 9 Jun 2022 8:26]
This is the problem now, isn't it - even if the Republicans/NRA did finally concede to a change in the law and ban semi/automatic rifles, there are still so many out there, that the chances are there will be more mass shootings after the law change, and the Republicans/NRA will just say, "look, we did as you asked, but it hasn't made any difference - it just proves that people are the problem, not guns!"
Now obviously we mostly agree Americans are not rational with guns but ... on 07:58 - Jun 9 by Whos_blue
Hearing the testimony of the 11 year old classmate who covered herself in her dead friends blood to appear dead almost brought me to tears last night. The testimony from the Dr who who detailed the horrific injuries including identifying one child by their trainers sickened me. The comments from the republican politician stating gun control laws do nothing other than remove "god given" 2A rights simply disgusted me.
"America has lost more children from gun violence than any other cause. Does that embarrass you?" House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said during a debate on the bill. "To think that in our country, more children have died from gun violence than any other cause? These stories are tragically all too common in America today."
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