| The aim this year was/is automatic promotion 21:04 - Oct 4 with 4777 views | reusersfreekicks |
So says Phil, Stuart Watson. And be honest the owners and management expect this too.
We have 2 teams worth of quality players many of whom other clubs in the league would love.
So let's stop spouting nonsense about gelling the season only starting when Morsey arrived, the players not being Cook's preference.
Let's just get real and see the season thus far for what it is - a disaster and a massive disappointment [Post edited 4 Oct 2021 21:05]
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| The aim this year was/is automatic promotion on 12:54 - Oct 5 with 971 views | itfcjoe |
| The aim this year was/is automatic promotion on 12:45 - Oct 5 by Chrisd |
I won't and I'll hold my hands up now and admit I said previously, 'Judge him after the first 10 league games,' and here we are. With PH we really looked a poor side and incapable of even getting into the opposition's final third, I don't get that with PC's current side. The QPR game at home sticks firmly in my mind under PH, we were utterly toothless - it was men against boys that day. [Post edited 5 Oct 2021 12:47]
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Under Hurst we had one of the lowest budgets in the league and a team of players stepping up (ultimately unsuccessfully), judging Cook against those same standards is wrong for me.
If Hurst had got us to lower mid table that would probably have been acceptable |  |
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| The aim this year was/is automatic promotion on 12:59 - Oct 5 with 956 views | Bluroo |
| The aim this year was/is automatic promotion on 11:32 - Oct 5 by Herbivore |
So just Hladky has come from a lower level, I'd forgotten about him to be honest. One player out of nineteen that could reasonably be described as lower league. |
We're IN a lower league, incase you'd forgotten. I never said "league lower than us" which your defence seems to be erroneously based upon.
But we've drifted from my point that I don't buy the narrative that "all the players we've bought are better than the ones we have". I think that's just wishful thinking.
A more accurate statement would be "we weren't getting the best out of the old squad and we're not getting the best out of this one either". |  | | |
| The aim this year was/is automatic promotion on 13:02 - Oct 5 with 951 views | Darth_Koont |
| The aim this year was/is automatic promotion on 10:28 - Oct 5 by itfcjoe |
We can't build a team for the long term in this division unless we go up - if we don't go up we lose Celina, Walton, Bonne and Coulson, as well as anyone who has had a very good season as we need to hit SCMP rules and then have to start again.
It's not unrealistic to expect 10 out and 10 in if we don't go up, and then we are back in the same place come August next season, as every other club in this league is every summer.
There can't be a long term plan that involves staying in this league, the long term plan comes when we are out of it |
I don’t really see the logic for saying that. If and when we get to the Championship we’ll have to be prepared for 2-3 years building anyway. And that’ll be a lot more expensive for every “failed” promotion.
If our model demands promotion at the first attempt this year then we’re probably not thinking incrementally enough. |  |
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| The aim this year was/is automatic promotion on 13:07 - Oct 5 with 937 views | Chrisd |
| The aim this year was/is automatic promotion on 12:54 - Oct 5 by itfcjoe |
Under Hurst we had one of the lowest budgets in the league and a team of players stepping up (ultimately unsuccessfully), judging Cook against those same standards is wrong for me.
If Hurst had got us to lower mid table that would probably have been acceptable |
We looked what we were Joe, a really poor Championship side, he was never going to get us to mid table. In fact, look at the players PH signed where are a lot of them now? Chalobah you could see he was going to be a player, for a youngster in his first year of senior football he stood out for me, not just in his play, but his attitude in a struggling side.
The rest:
Edwards - L1
Harrison - L1?!
Donacien - L1
Edun - L1
Nolan - L1
Nsiala - L1
Jackson - L1
Roberts - L2?!
The writing was on the wall, but you only needed to watch how we played that we simply weren't good enough to be competitive at that level. I feel differently under PC, that's why I want to give him a little longer. Then, if it's not changed by the end of this month perhaps then it's time for a change. | |
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| The aim this year was/is automatic promotion on 13:12 - Oct 5 with 920 views | Herbivore |
| The aim this year was/is automatic promotion on 12:59 - Oct 5 by Bluroo |
We're IN a lower league, incase you'd forgotten. I never said "league lower than us" which your defence seems to be erroneously based upon.
But we've drifted from my point that I don't buy the narrative that "all the players we've bought are better than the ones we have". I think that's just wishful thinking.
A more accurate statement would be "we weren't getting the best out of the old squad and we're not getting the best out of this one either". |
Well when you're talking about us signing lower league players it's reasonable to assume you mean a lower league than us. We aren't asking players to step up a level or two as we were under Hurst. And actually the majority of our signings have come from sides playing at a higher level than us anyway and those we have signed from our level were top performers at this level last season.
I don't think your point really stands up to be honest. If you don't think Pigott and Bonne, for example, are upgrades on Drinan and Hawkins or that Morsy is no better than a 35 year old Skuse then I simply can't agree with you. [Post edited 5 Oct 2021 13:14]
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| The aim this year was/is automatic promotion on 13:14 - Oct 5 with 906 views | itfcjoe |
| The aim this year was/is automatic promotion on 13:07 - Oct 5 by Chrisd |
We looked what we were Joe, a really poor Championship side, he was never going to get us to mid table. In fact, look at the players PH signed where are a lot of them now? Chalobah you could see he was going to be a player, for a youngster in his first year of senior football he stood out for me, not just in his play, but his attitude in a struggling side.
The rest:
Edwards - L1
Harrison - L1?!
Donacien - L1
Edun - L1
Nolan - L1
Nsiala - L1
Jackson - L1
Roberts - L2?!
The writing was on the wall, but you only needed to watch how we played that we simply weren't good enough to be competitive at that level. I feel differently under PC, that's why I want to give him a little longer. Then, if it's not changed by the end of this month perhaps then it's time for a change. |
But comparing PH's team looking toothless in the Champ to Cook's at this level is surely not relevant - their expectations are hugely different and the competition we are facing now is hugely inferior | |
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| The aim this year was/is automatic promotion on 13:24 - Oct 5 with 888 views | Chrisd |
| The aim this year was/is automatic promotion on 13:14 - Oct 5 by itfcjoe |
But comparing PH's team looking toothless in the Champ to Cook's at this level is surely not relevant - their expectations are hugely different and the competition we are facing now is hugely inferior |
I can't honestly remember what the expectations were under PH? What I do know was how poor we looked in games. PC's current side - yes, I agree - when you look at us on paper we should be achieving more, but there is enough to suggest we might not be far away and that's why I want to give him longer. If I'm proved right, we storm the league and get promoted then brilliant (and I don't care if it's top 2 or the play offs), but I do feel he warrants a little longer just to see if he can pull it together. Under PH, I never felt that, the time was right to let him go. | |
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| The aim this year was/is automatic promotion on 14:24 - Oct 5 with 832 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| The aim this year was/is automatic promotion on 10:43 - Oct 5 by itfcjoe |
Again we go back to the turnover at every club in this division being so vast - very few teams can keep the core of their squad together - Morecambe came up, lost their manager and basically their whole first team including top scorer, and then later on their captain - they have a squad of 26 professionals and 21 of them are new signings.
We opted to take this route, most do it out of necessity, and most can't get the pick of the players they want.
People can talk about gelling until the cows come home, or the season only starting when Morsy is available, but frankly it's just excuses and the league table at the end of the season will be the ultimate judge of whether what we elected to do worked. At the moment it is so far from doing so, and par automatic promotion type form from now on in (which the squad should be capable of) then we won't even do as well as Paul Lambert and the squad that has had so much stick did. |
So one team has had as much turnover of players as we have - and because after 10 games they're doing a bit better than us (they're 13th - whoopy do) that's a reason to dismiss gelling as a concept?
You mention other teams having big turnovers - but unless it's the whole team it's not comparable. Those with some of their first team remaining will at least have SOME understanding. Some partnerships that will have developed over a long time. We started with none.
You're quite right to say "the league table at the end of the season will be the ultimate judge of whether what we elected to do worked." That's why I'm not judging us too much after 10 games.
All this talk of positional placings right now is a load of old nonsense.
I'm stunned that I'm getting so much grief/downarrows for my heinous position of thinking 10 games with a brand new team is enough and they should be firing on all cylinders by now. This place is bonkers in the nut. [Post edited 5 Oct 2021 14:53]
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| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| The aim this year was/is automatic promotion on 14:30 - Oct 5 with 820 views | hype313 |
| The aim this year was/is automatic promotion on 14:24 - Oct 5 by The_Flashing_Smile |
So one team has had as much turnover of players as we have - and because after 10 games they're doing a bit better than us (they're 13th - whoopy do) that's a reason to dismiss gelling as a concept?
You mention other teams having big turnovers - but unless it's the whole team it's not comparable. Those with some of their first team remaining will at least have SOME understanding. Some partnerships that will have developed over a long time. We started with none.
You're quite right to say "the league table at the end of the season will be the ultimate judge of whether what we elected to do worked." That's why I'm not judging us too much after 10 games.
All this talk of positional placings right now is a load of old nonsense.
I'm stunned that I'm getting so much grief/downarrows for my heinous position of thinking 10 games with a brand new team is enough and they should be firing on all cylinders by now. This place is bonkers in the nut. [Post edited 5 Oct 2021 14:53]
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Fact of the matter is Dollers we have owners who want to turn a quick buck, this squad wasn't assembled with a view of a transition year or two, it was built in mind of promotion with a view that it should hold its own in the championship with a few more additions.
That we are 19th after 10 games just isn't in the plan, and won't be accepted for much longer if we keep getting further and further away from the top 2.
In an ideal world we would all love it to be a situation where they can take a few months to bed in, but that just isn't the case. |  |
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| The aim this year was/is automatic promotion on 14:40 - Oct 5 with 792 views | itfcjoe |
| The aim this year was/is automatic promotion on 14:24 - Oct 5 by The_Flashing_Smile |
So one team has had as much turnover of players as we have - and because after 10 games they're doing a bit better than us (they're 13th - whoopy do) that's a reason to dismiss gelling as a concept?
You mention other teams having big turnovers - but unless it's the whole team it's not comparable. Those with some of their first team remaining will at least have SOME understanding. Some partnerships that will have developed over a long time. We started with none.
You're quite right to say "the league table at the end of the season will be the ultimate judge of whether what we elected to do worked." That's why I'm not judging us too much after 10 games.
All this talk of positional placings right now is a load of old nonsense.
I'm stunned that I'm getting so much grief/downarrows for my heinous position of thinking 10 games with a brand new team is enough and they should be firing on all cylinders by now. This place is bonkers in the nut. [Post edited 5 Oct 2021 14:53]
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There's a gaping chasm between 'firing on all cylinders' and where we are now - I don't think anyone expected us to blitz the league and get 100 points - but the start we have made has made automatic promotion exceedingly difficult already. If we had another 5-6 more points and sat in 9th/10th in the league then it's no real issue.....bobbing along at 1.5 points per game is a far easier position to climb the table from than where we are.
To get into 'play off form' we need to win our next 5 games, that's how far behind the 8 ball we are already | |
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| The aim this year was/is automatic promotion on 14:57 - Oct 5 with 759 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| The aim this year was/is automatic promotion on 14:30 - Oct 5 by hype313 |
Fact of the matter is Dollers we have owners who want to turn a quick buck, this squad wasn't assembled with a view of a transition year or two, it was built in mind of promotion with a view that it should hold its own in the championship with a few more additions.
That we are 19th after 10 games just isn't in the plan, and won't be accepted for much longer if we keep getting further and further away from the top 2.
In an ideal world we would all love it to be a situation where they can take a few months to bed in, but that just isn't the case. |
Well they're utterly naive if they thought it would all run smoothly and we'd gel a complete set of new players immediately.
But I'm not even advocating "a transition year or two". I'm talking about a few more than 10 games. If we're not looking at any improvement in the next 5 or 6 games I'll be calling for Cook's head too. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| The aim this year was/is automatic promotion on 15:04 - Oct 5 with 747 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| The aim this year was/is automatic promotion on 14:40 - Oct 5 by itfcjoe |
There's a gaping chasm between 'firing on all cylinders' and where we are now - I don't think anyone expected us to blitz the league and get 100 points - but the start we have made has made automatic promotion exceedingly difficult already. If we had another 5-6 more points and sat in 9th/10th in the league then it's no real issue.....bobbing along at 1.5 points per game is a far easier position to climb the table from than where we are.
To get into 'play off form' we need to win our next 5 games, that's how far behind the 8 ball we are already |
I appreciate that. And with a bit more luck (a missed pen, a late pen conceded, a miss of a lifetime, a sloppy backpass etc. etc.) we'd have had those points.
I'm not convinced Cook is the one but I am convinced he needs longer. I remember the times when managers got a couple of years to build a team. I'm astonished some think 10 games is more than enough, particularly with a brand new team. You could argue that's Cook's fault for throwing everyone out, but that's another discussion. Time will tell. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| The aim this year was/is automatic promotion on 16:00 - Oct 5 with 706 views | blueysbackside |
| The aim this year was/is automatic promotion on 14:24 - Oct 5 by The_Flashing_Smile |
So one team has had as much turnover of players as we have - and because after 10 games they're doing a bit better than us (they're 13th - whoopy do) that's a reason to dismiss gelling as a concept?
You mention other teams having big turnovers - but unless it's the whole team it's not comparable. Those with some of their first team remaining will at least have SOME understanding. Some partnerships that will have developed over a long time. We started with none.
You're quite right to say "the league table at the end of the season will be the ultimate judge of whether what we elected to do worked." That's why I'm not judging us too much after 10 games.
All this talk of positional placings right now is a load of old nonsense.
I'm stunned that I'm getting so much grief/downarrows for my heinous position of thinking 10 games with a brand new team is enough and they should be firing on all cylinders by now. This place is bonkers in the nut. [Post edited 5 Oct 2021 14:53]
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You are not alone. The ‘experts’ in here claiming we should be doing better with this squad as if you can magically put a whole new team together after a few games. The season started in earnest when the transfer window closed. Now Cook has to make it work, not last season, not earlier this season when he wanted - we assume - Celina, Morsy and Walton while still trying to integrate a WHOLE new team. It CAN take time for players to gel. Fact. At other clubs it might have worked quicker. Fact. It hasn’t here. Fact. What makes me chuckle are the ones calling for Cook out NOW or at the end of this month. As if there is a manager out there who will automatically get a tune out of these players INSTANTLY. Oh, and maybe - just maybe (as I’ve mentioned before) - a lot of these new players AREN’T Cook targets. Aluko, the Villa kid, Harper, Piggott spring to mind. | | | |
| The aim this year was/is automatic promotion on 18:08 - Oct 5 with 653 views | TooManyPauls |
| The aim this year was/is automatic promotion on 12:59 - Oct 5 by Bluroo |
We're IN a lower league, incase you'd forgotten. I never said "league lower than us" which your defence seems to be erroneously based upon.
But we've drifted from my point that I don't buy the narrative that "all the players we've bought are better than the ones we have". I think that's just wishful thinking.
A more accurate statement would be "we weren't getting the best out of the old squad and we're not getting the best out of this one either". |
I think excitement of some high profile individual signings is being misinterpreted by many as evidence of a squad that should be readymade to win games and get promoted.
It's worth asking how many players have played 30+ games a season in a successful team at this level or above? And how many have done it for more than one season?
Morsy, Evans, Chaplin stand out. But too many, especially across the back four, have a half season or one full season at the most. They have age on their side, but to say this squad has the pick of the league's defenders is ridiculous.
Who knows how things will pan out? Would you bet against each of the defenders only going on to have a lower league career? | | | |
| The aim this year was/is automatic promotion on 18:30 - Oct 5 with 646 views | Herbivore |
| The aim this year was/is automatic promotion on 16:00 - Oct 5 by blueysbackside |
You are not alone. The ‘experts’ in here claiming we should be doing better with this squad as if you can magically put a whole new team together after a few games. The season started in earnest when the transfer window closed. Now Cook has to make it work, not last season, not earlier this season when he wanted - we assume - Celina, Morsy and Walton while still trying to integrate a WHOLE new team. It CAN take time for players to gel. Fact. At other clubs it might have worked quicker. Fact. It hasn’t here. Fact. What makes me chuckle are the ones calling for Cook out NOW or at the end of this month. As if there is a manager out there who will automatically get a tune out of these players INSTANTLY. Oh, and maybe - just maybe (as I’ve mentioned before) - a lot of these new players AREN’T Cook targets. Aluko, the Villa kid, Harper, Piggott spring to mind. |
Putting parts of your post in caps doesn't emphasise your points or make them more legitimate, it just makes you look deranged. | |
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| The aim this year was/is automatic promotion on 19:36 - Oct 5 with 608 views | blueysbackside |
| The aim this year was/is automatic promotion on 18:30 - Oct 5 by Herbivore |
Putting parts of your post in caps doesn't emphasise your points or make them more legitimate, it just makes you look deranged. |
For someone who appears fairly intelligent from the way you can string two sentences together, I don’t know why you have to resort to (low-grade) verbals as soon as someone posts something you disagree with. Cheers, love. | | | |
| The aim this year was/is automatic promotion on 10:16 - Oct 6 with 531 views | Bluroo |
| The aim this year was/is automatic promotion on 13:12 - Oct 5 by Herbivore |
Well when you're talking about us signing lower league players it's reasonable to assume you mean a lower league than us. We aren't asking players to step up a level or two as we were under Hurst. And actually the majority of our signings have come from sides playing at a higher level than us anyway and those we have signed from our level were top performers at this level last season.
I don't think your point really stands up to be honest. If you don't think Pigott and Bonne, for example, are upgrades on Drinan and Hawkins or that Morsy is no better than a 35 year old Skuse then I simply can't agree with you. [Post edited 5 Oct 2021 13:14]
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For the third time my point is I disagree with the statement "ALL the players we've bought are better than the ones we have"... "ALL". You can't disagree with me on individual examples which I haven't given and I haven't given them because it's the overall sentiment I disagree with. | | | |
| The aim this year was/is automatic promotion on 11:27 - Oct 6 with 496 views | Herbivore |
| The aim this year was/is automatic promotion on 10:16 - Oct 6 by Bluroo |
For the third time my point is I disagree with the statement "ALL the players we've bought are better than the ones we have"... "ALL". You can't disagree with me on individual examples which I haven't given and I haven't given them because it's the overall sentiment I disagree with. |
I really have no idea what you're on about and I'll repeat that if you genuinely think this year's squad isn't better player for player than last year's then all I can say is I think you are wrong. | |
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| The aim this year was/is automatic promotion on 13:51 - Oct 6 with 444 views | Vic |
| The aim this year was/is automatic promotion on 22:22 - Oct 4 by Darth_Koont |
So far it is a disappointment.
But if we’re getting real, then a club that can only accept promotion this season especially with a completely new squad doesn’t understand the league we’re in.
There’s got to be degrees of success and failure in this, and a long-term plan, or we’re screwed. Spending sh/tloads on players and then demanding immediate success is the sort of thing I’ve associated with Derby recently and Notts County back in the day |
Exactly this - thank you for the voice of reason.
Of course promotion was/is the target this season. Imagine how things would have been if they said at the start of the season, after putting in all the cash, etc, that we’ll have a season of transition! Madness!
Instead, they’ve always said that promo is the target but we have to be patient. I don’t think they’ve anywhere said it’s promo or bust this season. They are realistic and though the start has been bitterly disappointing it’s not entirely surprising.
None of which is to say that PC gets a free shot to the end of the season! I would expect that if form and consistency hasn’t picked up by December they will having some serious conversations and could well replace him by the Enid of the year. I do not expect them to make the same mistake ME made over and over again. |  |
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